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Author Topic: Fake 69 Olympic Gold Z is back on the market  (Read 5140 times)
400guy
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« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2012, 09:49:26 AM »

OK, I am the unsuspecting "sucker" that acquired the car @ Mecum and BillOhio from the forum was the individual who made us aware the car is actually a clone. It has been removed from our inventory and I am in process of attempting to unwind the purchase. I had no idea the car was a phony and I trusted the paperwork and particularly that it was a Hendricks car. I couldn't imagine that they would represent a fake. A special thanks to BillOhio for enlightening me about this.
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Doug Trotter
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« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2012, 10:36:38 AM »

There should be accountability here but it appears that there is none.  Especially since this car has been a known fake now for several years.  I am just amazed at the "spin" that sellers put on these fake cars.  It's incredible.  No one knows anything.  I would think that Mecum would do a little homework on cars that they sell.  If this keeps up, their reputation will be in the crapper.  It happens every year too.

I think Troy in our group told me that he told HMS that this car was a fake when they were trying to sell it.  Maybe you can chime in here Troy. 

We also have another fake '67 Z28 clone that was bought at Mecum two years ago.  It's in my shop now.  It took my client a lot of time and effort to make that deal right.  It's a shame that the hobby has come to this.   These are only a small sample of what goes on out there in the auction world. 

Jerry
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BillOhio
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« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2012, 02:05:43 PM »

Good luck 400guy. I was disappointed to see the tag and imagine it made you feel alot worse. I had emailed Hendricks when they had it on Ebay asking about the tag. Never heard back. It is a nice car that someone put alot of work into. I saw so much strange stuff at mecum in Florida last year, I was ready to give up on finding a Camaro.
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1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
paceme
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« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2012, 03:41:45 PM »

This car seems familiar (not positive). I was contacted about 4 years ago from a guy in NJ who owned a gold 69 Z and he asked my advice regarding the trim tag and I stated it was fake. He got upset via email and stated I was wrong and other "experts" (never mentioned whom) stated the car was authentic. His emails started getting nasty so I stopped communicating. I think Kurt may have been involved or may remember.

Regarding auctions houses, none that I'm aware of represent the cars, but use the written information/description submitted by the owner. There is a lot of legalese in the auction contract which states the seller is responsible for the accuracy of the description and authenticity of the car period. I think if the auction house is notified prior to the auction about the legitimacy of a car then they have some responsibility. Some of these auctions have 2000 being sold and it would be virtually impossible for them to verify and validate and they are only there to put a buyer and seller together. For me I would only feel comfortable if I had known a car being sold at an auction, or if the owner had bullet proof provenance on the vehicle before purchasing. I will say tens of thousands of cars are sold annually with the overwhelming majority of buyers very satisfied. The property law doctrine Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware), holds true when purchasing anything.
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Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
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« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2012, 06:25:31 PM »

400guy- I sure hope things work out for the best. Hindsight is 2020 but if you ever go down that road again, run the numbers by the experts on this sight. It'll be worth your while.  Wink

Please keep us posted.
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william
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« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2012, 07:25:28 PM »

This could prove interesting and expensive if it gets to court. The plantiff will have to "prove" the car is in fact NOT a Z/28. Without genuine original documents, there may be no way to determine its orignal configuration. It could be a real Z/28 that was missing the body tag so a replacement was acquired during the restoration.

For every expert the plantiff brings, the defense will bring one. @ $500/hr.

The first repro Z/28 body tag I knew of went onto a '70 Z28. The owner disliked the original color and restored it in red. Copied the OE tag; just changed the color. Still a Z28.
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« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2012, 08:07:03 PM »

There is no question Doug will be going up against a powerful man. And there is no question Mr. Hendricks knows Nascar, but does he or his advisors poses the same knowledge CRG’s heavy hitters poses when it comes to First Gens? I think not. The question is; will these gentlemen be willing to help?

Doug has already done his part by removing the car from his inventory. My hope is that it never goes to court and Mr. Hendricks follows Doug's lead by doing what's right.
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rat pack
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« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2012, 02:05:59 PM »

I spoke to James Potter back before Christmas regarding this car and a couple others they had for sale. When we spoke I asked him what happened to Jerry's paperwork and he point blank stated "I don't know what you are talking about, and who is Jerry MacNeish?" I went to explain to him who Jerry is/was, and that the car they are selling is a known clone. He said that was news to him and that he would check into it. My gut feeling was that he knew of Jerry, and also that they possibly had Jerry's report. The car was removed from their site within a day or so after I mentioned that to him. When he called me back regarding a couple other cars, he said that the gold car was no longer for sale. Rick bought the car as a "real" Z at the 2010 Palm Beach B-J auction and gave close to $60k for it then. So it has been sold twice as a "real" Z since it was discovered it wasn't real by Jerry in 2009. So what transpired after the first guy "xramcamaro2" discovered it was a fake Z? Was he the one that consigned it to B-J to be sold? If so, then he would be the one liable when it is all said and done.............RatPack..............
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Just keep livin......L I V I N .............
lcmc
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« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2012, 08:26:31 PM »

This could prove interesting and expensive if it gets to court. The plantiff will have to "prove" the car is in fact NOT a Z/28. Without genuine original documents, there may be no way to determine its orignal configuration. It could be a real Z/28 that was missing the body tag so a replacement was acquired during the restoration.

For every expert the plantiff brings, the defense will bring one. @ $500/hr.

The first repro Z/28 body tag I knew of went onto a '70 Z28. The owner disliked the original color and restored it in red. Copied the OE tag; just changed the color. Still a Z28.

You don't have to prove it's not a Z. My argument in court would be I paid a premium for a matching numbers car with documentation and it's not.
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Danny
1969 Z/28 X77
1970 Nova L78 9300 original miles
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« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2012, 06:45:24 AM »

Any updates on the status of this car?

Found it here; http://www.facebook.com/pages/TrotterLLC/113293652035356  and here; HM; http://www.hendrickperformance.com/detail-1969-chevrolet-camaro-z_slash_28-used-6761345.html

But not here (HM); http://www.hendrickperformance.com/classic-cars.aspx?
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Kelley W King
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« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2012, 07:16:32 AM »

I think someone should buy it for 40,000 and put Hookers and Flowmasters on it and drive the thing. If someone wanted to buy it tell them what you know or don,t. It looks to be a nice ride.
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69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
69 SS L78
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64 Corvette
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77 Trans Am Special Edition
lcmc
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« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2012, 11:58:07 AM »

Stopped in at Nelson's today. They still have the car but pulled it off the market. They are trying to get the whole mess resolved.
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Danny
1969 Z/28 X77
1970 Nova L78 9300 original miles
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« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2012, 05:47:48 PM »

Thanks for the update Danny.
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400guy
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« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2012, 08:09:29 PM »

I am happy to report that the Z has been sent back to Hendrick and I have been made "whole & full". They were very easy to work with and I have concluded the only way to ever consider purchasing a Z28 in the future would be to consult Jerry.
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Doug Trotter
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« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2012, 08:35:50 PM »

Great to hear they did the right thing for you. Now let's see how they handle the car.
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