Camaro Natiionals @ Frederick Fairgrounds 2012

[Jerry@CHP]

The Camaro Nationals held at the Frederick Fairgrounds was a big success. All of the "Legend" and "Bow Tie" class cars are now in an air conditioned building at the fairgrounds with plenty of room for moving cars around. Best judging conditions we've ever had.

All of the national judging teams have been consistant now for many years. Larry Christensen and I have now been working together for over 20 years. Bob Harris and Brad McAdam are not far behind in the years we've worked together. The chemistry and consistancy of what we do is now better than ever.

We also introduced "Legend Vintage" judging this year for all original survivor type 1st Gen Camaros. Make arrangements to attend next year. Should be even bigger and better! Car count was well over 425 cars this year!

Special thanks go out to the Maryland Camaro Club and the American Camaro Association.  See you next year!

Jerry

[JKZ27]

Yes. I was there all weekend and had a great time. The larger, air conditioned building was really awesome. There were some unbelievable restored cars including a handful of 67 Z28s, SS 350s and the Hugger Orange ZL1. I love seeing the reaction of the owners when their name is called out for their award, after seeing them sweat while the judges surrounded the car earlier. Also, it was nice to see some early 2nd gen L78s worthy of the A/C building. Can't wait for next June.

John

[mickeystoys69RSSS]

Sounds like fun. I hope to make it up there one of these years. Right now my work schedule does not allow me to travel. Maybe after I retire. I am just wondering though, I already know some of the parts on my car are not original like the A/C and the accessories to make it functional like radiator, pulleys, and Alt. But, if the rest of the car is a numbers matching engine, trans, rear axle, and the heads and manifolds are correct part numbers and dates with an original interior. Could my car qualify for one of the judging classes without restoring back to 100% factory original?


Anyone have any photos for those of us who were not able to make it?

[Mac B]

This was my first time at the event.  The entire experience was outstanding.  Organization was excellent as was communication with car owners.  The Friday night banquet at the host hotel was great fun.  The judges were professional and very thorough.  I have a Legends Car (picture attached) and am very pleased with my results with a 91.6 score.  I also have plenty to work on and am studying the judging sheets.  A picture of my car is attached.  All and all a great weekend with fellow Camaro enthusiasts.

[buds396]

Mickystoys,

I would like to here more about your 69, it may qualify for Bow Tie. Sent me an email at buds393@gmail.com.

I would like to thank everyone for the kind words and support of the Camaro Nationals.  Hope to see everyone in Frederick, MD June 21 & 22, 2013.

[Petes L48]

Is there a site or someplace showing the results of the Legend judging?  Just wondering how some of those awesome cars fared in points and compared to each other.  Great show, my first time attending and will be back next year, hopefully I'll remember the camera. 

[Mike S]

I have never been to this event or anything like it. Are all the judged cars trailer queens or is there a mixture of those driven as well that get judged.

Mike

[TooManyReels]

Like with almost any car show, it takes all kinds of cars to make a show...I was there this past w/e. I saw trailer queen's and fixer-uppers along with daily driver, as well..A lot of very, very nice people..There was a 1969 Camaro with a Hemi-blower power plant...Very nice car, very noisy and stirred up quite a bit of dust as well for the clean car ready to be judged...

TMR
Eddie

[mickeystoys69RSSS]

Mickystoys,

I would like to here more about your 69, it may qualify for Bow Tie. Sent me an email at buds393@gmail.com.

I would like to thank everyone for the kind words and support of the Camaro Nationals.  Hope to see everyone in Frederick, MD June 21 & 22, 2013.

bud

All of the information about the car I have posted here:

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8966.0

 and questions I asked on this site including the pictures of the VIN, Cowl tag, and engine VIN.

[DavidS]

Anyone have any photos for those of us who were not able to make it?

I had a GREAT time at the 2012 Camaro Nationals.  I learned a lot and got a lot of great advice.  Especially from judges Jerry M and Chris and a couple of guys who had Z/28's there....Dale and Al.

I took a video in the Legends and Bowtie building.  This video has more of the Bowtie cars.  Unfortunately, I used my Sony camcorder which goes to a mini-DVD which requires ripping software to make a youtube video.  This is the first time I used ripping software so I downloaded a trial version which stuck a watermark right in the middle.  Also, I usually drink way too much coffee so the video is jittery.  You can get the general idea though.

Youtube link: http://youtu.be/AVV_MJ12dsA

[JKZ27]

For comparison sake, did anyone go to Carlisle last weekend too? Anything going on up there?

John

[4Camaros]

The scores and results for all of the judging will be posted on the Camaro Nationals website in a few weeks.

One of our sponsors was at Carlisle and counted the cars on the field on Saturday. There were 161 Camaros there, compared with 430 at the Camaro Nationals.

A big thank you to the sponsors, vendors, entrants and spectators who came out in support of the Camaro Nationals. It's been a lot of work (but fun work) being involved in the Nationals and we hope to see everyone back next year! Thank you also for the kind words and encouragement in putting on a show of this magnitude and caliber. If not for the Camaro enthusiasts and their passion for their cars, this would be just another car show - and it is anything but!

[Mike S]

Anyone have any photos for those of us who were not able to make it?

I had a GREAT time at the 2012 Camaro Nationals.  I learned a lot and got a lot of great advice.  Especially from judges Jerry M and Chris and a couple of guys who had Z/28's there....Dale and Al.

I took a video in the Legends and Bowtie building.  This video has more of the Bowtie cars.  Unfortunately, I used my Sony camcorder which goes to a mini-DVD which requires ripping software to make a youtube video.  This is the first time I used ripping software so I downloaded a trial version which stuck a watermark right in the middle.  Also, I usually drink way too much coffee so the video is jittery.  You can get the general idea though.

Youtube link: http://youtu.be/AVV_MJ12dsA

Hi Dave,
 Thanks for the interesting video. Did you get to see under the cars as well and if so how were the bottoms finished? All uniform black or a bottom with overspray? Colors?

Mike

[JKZ27]

There are some pictures up on the Maryland Camaro Club site.http://www.mdcamaroclub.com/gallery/v/reduced_021/
Hope the link works.

John

[Mike S]

The link works good, John.
Are those models on page 8 the 'special edition'? 

Thank you for the post,
Mike

[DavidS]

Hi Dave,
 Thanks for the interesting video. Did you get to see under the cars as well and if so how were the bottoms finished? All uniform black or a bottom with overspray? Colors?

Mike

Mike, There is one lift in the building and my understanding is that returning Legends cars don't have their bottom checked unless there was a problem with it the previous year.  I think it's typical that only first year Legend cars have the bottom checked on the lift.  Bowtie class cars do not go on the lift. 

For that reason, I did not see many cars on the lift.  It seemed to me that for the few Legend Concours cars I did see on the lift, they were uniform black with some overspray.  Someone with more experience than I have would be better suited to answer this judging question though.

[jmcbeth]

Mac B,

Glad you were able to make the show. A 91.6 score is excellent for first year. Personally, I was in awe of the judges and their knowledge. I then had a wonderful time over the next two years carefully fixing items on my list. It's nice to take a weekend, pick something on the list and go to work on it. I'm now done (97.2%) and miss the experience. Maybe I need to start on another one...

[68camaroz28]

I have nothing but the highest respect and praise for the people judging the cars and look forward to having our car reviewed next year. I just wish there was a judging manual/summary of some sort similar to NCRS. For many people it is extremely difficult to have judging questions answered other than at an event and normally judges are so busy time is limited unless its your car being judged. Many questions even here concerning judging guidelines go unanswered. I realize creating a judging manual is monumental but its not insurmountable.
Looking forward to next years show and a new round of Legend Cars to be judged..... Special Thanks to the numerous people and judges that work diligently to put this program together.

[Mike S]

...... I just wish there was a judging manual/summary of some sort similar to NCRS. ......

I'm with you, Chick, for this request too. I found a copy of the NCRS and am using that as a guideline on my current 67 restoration.
It seems easy enough to place a copy of the Camaro judging sheet guidelines on PDF and post it here. Not sure why that doesn't happen. What's the big secret? It can only help a restorer maximize their work efforts and minimize redo's.

Mike

[DavidS]

X3!  Having published guidelines would be wonderful but I'm guessing that the guidelines would be huge due to all the variations that could be seen at the two plants and variations due to some processes being done by hand.  The variations seem huge to me.  I have a Norwood car with a gray primer underbody and another has a Norwood car made 3 months earlier that has a mostly black underbody.

For restoration,  I have been using Jerry's 69 book and his "Appendix E: CORRECT COMPONENT COLOR AND PLATING CHART".

One problem is that things change over the years and what is acceptable one year, might not be acceptable the next year.  A drastic example.....I'm pretty sure that undercarriages could be either black or gray back in the early 90's.

Below is a picture from Camaro Enthusiast May-June 1993. The title of the article is “UnderCarriage Detailing Component Finishes” by Frank Serafine.


Don't make your undercarriage gray though.  Jerry's book (and every restored Concours car I saw at the Nationals) has "30-percent gloss black paint".

[Mike S]

....................
Don't make your undercarriage gray though.  Jerry's book (and every restored Concours car I saw at the Nationals) has "30-percent gloss black paint".

I have researched this topic deeply and have seen so many different original underbody photos. Despite what the book states, if a car has a gray underbody, then so be it. I don't think anyone is in a position to be the final authority on what took place over 40 years ago if empirical evidence clearly shows that there have been variations seen frequently as if often the case when work is done by a manual process. Sure, the majority may have been black but, IMHO, if you have gray sections too then by all means restore it that way instead of what a book states is correct.

Mike

[DavidS]

I hear you Mike.  It's not easy though since my underbody looks like a mish-mash of colors.

I have one pic here that show's a lot of gray:


......but a lot of my other pictures have a lot of black: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/underfloor/?start=all

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to decide what direction to go.

     If I want to do well in the Concours Legends class at the Camaro Nationals I should play by their rules (uniform 30 percent gloss black with some overspray).  

     Otherwise, I should pick a different class and see if I can be allowed to enter (and make it as I believe it was originally).