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Author Topic: Alternator- Early '69 Build 61 amp  (Read 3124 times)
IZRSSS
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« on: April 27, 2012, 12:30:48 PM »

Does anyone have a 61 amp alternator with a time line of Oct. 3, 1968 thru Nov. 16, 1968 they can post pics of (specifically the stamp/date). It's for a 12A build. I have been told that there seems to be a pattern of a weak zero (2ND 0 in this sequence 1100843) in many of these due to worn out stamps that were not replaced on the line when they should have been.

In addition, can anyone recommend a company that specializes in reconditioned original alternators?

Thanks in advance.
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crobjones2
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2012, 09:27:18 PM »

Marty - there is one on ebay in which both 0's are light 8H23

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1100843-1969-CAMARO-CHEVELLE-ALTERNATOR-8H23-/170831647495?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c65c1307&vxp=mtr
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Chris
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 10:43:23 PM »

Thanks Chris. I didn't think to check EBay. Good spot! In this case both a 1 and a 0 are completely missing. And like you stated; the one remaining 0 is awfully weak. There might be something to the weak stamps of this time period after all. I certainly hope someone here can photograph theirs within this time frame so I know for sure.

I made a mistake up top. I used the cars build date as reference. I should have used the engines build date instead. Can anyone confirm this? I also think it should be anywhere from a month to 2 weeks prior to the build date of the engine. Can anyone confirm this as well?

Engine build date; November 11, 1968.

If you can recommend someone who specializes in original alternators please let me know. If not here, please send a PM...thanks!
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1968 Z28
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 11:21:02 PM »

Marty....I believe the alternator was added to the engine on the engine dress line at the factory...not the engine plant.  So, therefore, the alternator date would need to line up with the car build date....not the engine build date.  I think you had it right the first time.
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Jerry G.

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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2012, 08:47:48 AM »

My Car's build date is 12A & its engine build date is 11/11/68. If I read this correctly; http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml#engine, the correct engine and transmission were married and a Vin derivative was stamped on both (I'm assuming this included the date). Next, the engine went through a "dress stage" which included mounting the alternator. If I go with the build date of the car wouldn't I run the risk of overlapping the build date of the engine? Or, should this be a concern?
 
Thanks for bringing that up. I just need some sort of clarification. And sorry, I know I've crossed this bridge before but I can't find it in my search.

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tmodel66
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2012, 09:37:16 AM »

The  VIN was stamped on the engine and transmission when it was put into the car. The build dates were stamped when they were built. Had nothing to do with the car as to build dates. Your alternator should be dated before your engine build date. The way I understand it all the components that were added to the engine on the dress line would be dated prior to the engine build. I've never seen anything dated between engine build date and assembly date of the car. 
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Daniel  
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 11:48:26 AM »

 Are you sure of that Daniel?
  Some engines were built and sat on a rack for weeks to months before being installed in a car. So in this case for alternators that were installed during engine dressing, the date stamped may very well come before or after the engine build date depending on the volume and popularity of parts consumed on the assembly line.
In the case of my 2 '67's with originl electrical parts the LOS built car has the optional alternator so it sat for a while and was built before the engine assembly date before being installed.
The NOR car used the standard 37A unit so the build date was more recent relative to the cowl assembly date but after the engine build date.
LOS- Engine date - T0214 - Cowl date - 4B (UOIT lists 4/13/67 specifically)- Alternator date 7A30 (optional 1100696 - 42A) - Voltage  regulator date 7C
NOR - Engine date T0308 - Cowl date - 5B - Alternator date 7E4 (standard 1100693 -37A) - voltge regulator date - 7E

Or did you mean engine build = engine dressing? Huh

Mike
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 12:26:43 PM »

I don't know for certain. I just said I've never saw components dated between build dates of engines and cars. Evidently it happened cause your NOR car proves it did.   
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Daniel  
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2012, 01:07:30 PM »

All of the items assembled on the Engine Dress Line at the assembly plant (including the alternator) are dated back from the car's final assembly (off the line) date; they have nothing to do with the engine plant assembly date stamped on the front pad. The only bolt-on dated part installed at the engine plant was the distributor, which must be dated prior to the stamp pad date.

The engine was "bare-naked" when it arrived from the Engine Plant; the photo below shows what the engine looked like as-shipped from the engine plant in 1959, and it didn't look any different in the 60's. Everything you don't see in the photo was added at the car assembly plant.
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2012, 01:33:18 PM »

Hi John,

  Not to deviate from the main topic but I've seen this photo a number of times and each time I study it I notice something new.
I see the 6 cyl engines are blue. Was there any significant reason for that color and not Chevy orange?

 I see a very familiar thing though with the floor. It looks like it is built with wood blocks, no doubt due to the weight of the engines and the machines moving them. When I worked at Grumman Aerospace years ago several of the older assembly plants that were building aircraft during WW2 and beyond had wood floors made with 10x10 blocks (if I have the size correct) stacked tightly side by side.

Thanks,
Mike
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 02:05:44 PM »

Jerry was correct Smiley  So, what about acceptable time lines for the alternator Huh
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Mike S
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2012, 06:01:16 PM »

Hi Marty,

 I would say it depends on what alternator was used and how many in a batch run. The standard alternator with a car ordered with little options that required anything beyond 37A would be consumed faster hence closer to the vehicle assembly date than one that was used with let's say A/C.  So maybe a week before to several weeks depening on the demands.
  Like the gas tank date vs. cowl date thread, maybe one for alternators?

Mike
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2012, 06:33:11 PM »

Marty....What Mike said.  There was a production total of appx. 244,000 cars in 1969 and there was a total of 44,737 that had the C60 option that used the 61amp alternator.  So, it would probably depend on the total stock of the 61 amp alternator that they kept on hand and the rate that they were used on the line as to when they were manufactured.
  So I would say that you would probably need to ask around to find as many cars as possible in your manufacture date range and ask what their alternator dates are.  Or maybe there is someone else on here that has had a lot of experience at working with alternators and kept records as to the alternator vs car dates.

Wish I knew more...
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Jerry G.

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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 07:40:32 PM »

Good point Jerry. Mike's use of logic is refreshing and makes perfect sense. However, like with most topics First Gen, the proof is in the pudding, and or better stated; in the stats. So, your recommendation above all makes the most sense.
 
I know for a fact there are members who have cars with similar build dates as mine. I also think some of them were built in L. A... Whether or not they will contribute is another matter. If they do, we can as they say kill two birds with one stone. Relative alternator dates as they relate to the cars build date, and any consistencies with regards to the build date of my car and weak stamps? Hope they do contribute. I think a lot of us can benefit.

In addition, given what's been discussed and the regularity by which these alternators must have been pulled from the shelves, wouldn't it be safe to say their dates should be very close to the actual build date of the car? Say days to 4 weeks tops?
 
Sure need some folks with the 1100843 who know theirs are original to the car to hone in.

Thanks guys!

BTW...like your avatar Mike.


« Last Edit: April 28, 2012, 08:17:59 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
JohnZ
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2012, 11:25:47 AM »

Hi John,

  Not to deviate from the main topic but I've seen this photo a number of times and each time I study it I notice something new.
I see the 6 cyl engines are blue. Was there any significant reason for that color and not Chevy orange?

 I see a very familiar thing though with the floor. It looks like it is built with wood blocks, no doubt due to the weight of the engines and the machines moving them. When I worked at Grumman Aerospace years ago several of the older assembly plants that were building aircraft during WW2 and beyond had wood floors made with 10x10 blocks (if I have the size correct) stacked tightly side by side.

Thanks,
Mike

Chevy 6-cylinder engines were blue for decades, long before red and orange showed up on the first V-8's in '55. Wood block floors were very common in GM assembly and manufacturing plants until about the mid-60's, when new plants were built with concrete floors. The creosote-soaked wood floor blocks were a maintenance nightmare, especially if they got wet, expanded, and created "humps", like big "bubbles" in the floor.
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2012, 08:46:25 PM »

Marty, I've got my 12B Norwood car with A/C. Engine build is 11/21 and it has its original 61a alternator. I'll post the stamp info when I get a chance.

John
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2012, 10:13:46 PM »

Excellent news John, thanks!

Anymore '69 early build A/C L48 owners that can help?
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JKZ27
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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2012, 05:56:01 PM »

Looks like my alternator is stamped 1100843 61A 8L27.

John
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« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2012, 05:59:52 PM »

Oops, I think I lost sight of the original question on this thread. I need to inspect the zeros for a light stamp? Be right back...

John
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« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2012, 07:19:08 PM »

Sorry about the hassle, but yup on inspecting the stamp. Wink

Also, just want to make sure I learned my alphabet; 8L27 = Nov. 27, 1968? The letter "I" wasn't used, correct?
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2012, 07:35:24 PM »

Sorry about the hassle, but yup on inspecting the stamp. Wink

Also, just want to make sure I learned my alphabet; 8L27 = Nov. 27, 1968? The letter "I" wasn't used, correct?

This I know. You are Correct.
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Daniel  
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2012, 07:56:38 PM »

...This I know...pretty slick hombre. Hey isn't somethin suppose to happen tomarrow? I'll have my shades handy just in case... Cool
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tmodel66
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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2012, 08:10:03 PM »

Yeah I think so. Maybe ?
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Daniel  
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« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2012, 10:20:07 PM »

Ok, the first zero is light but you can still see the full circle. The second zero is slightly deeper but not as deep as the rest of the digits.

John
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« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2012, 07:02:50 AM »

From what I hear it's difficult to find an alternator from this time period that is a 10 or even a 7 or 8. Guess these things were used in several GM autos with the wrong brackets so in addition to weak stamps many were also banged up. 3 issues to deal with; legit dates that are legible and a housing that isn't banged up.

So far this is what I've been able to come up with;
•   John's; 3rd “0” week but legible
•   3rd “0” gone & housing banged up
•   3rd “0” weak & housing banged up
•   Housing great but 1st “0” completely gone

I'm following up on one lead that I got yesterday for a company that might have what I need. If anyone else has any leads please let me know. I know I'm a PITA but I know the one I'm looking for is out there somewhere.  Huh

Thanks John!
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« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2012, 09:54:54 PM »

I had my '68 alternator rebuilt and restored by John Pirkle in Auguta. GA. You can Google his name. It was $150.00 (about 4 years ago), and it looked very nice, what was plated was replated, date coded diodes included. Very satisfied with it.
I looked at some of my cores, and noticed 1102843 (yes,"2" as stamped; application?) and 1100843 and the 1st "0" is a bit fainter than the 2nd. possibly slightly smaller also. Dates are A 69 and B 69.
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2012, 12:43:41 PM »

I wouldn't get too worked-up over minor stamping variations; Delco made those distributors at 1600 per hour (one every two seconds) spread across several lines.
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« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2012, 01:13:25 PM »

I wouldn't get too worked-up over minor stamping variations; Delco made those distributors at 1600 per hour (one every two seconds) spread across several lines.

Hi John,
 Was this a random daily occurrence or scheduled batch runs based on inventory levels and rate of consumption?

Mike
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« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2012, 02:59:13 PM »

So what about this one? Is it a keeper (1st 0)? It can't get much better date wise for a 12A build.
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« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2012, 03:38:21 PM »

Marty,  Were there no 843's made in Nov. (L) ? The "K" you have pictured is a Oct. build if I'm correct.
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Rick
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« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2012, 03:51:38 PM »

Absolutely, but here are the only two L's I currently have to choose from and they're a little rougher; me thinks?

These pics were sent to me via cell phone so sorry about the quality.
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« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2012, 03:58:54 PM »

Yes I see what you mean Marty. I know making a decision on what part to use can drive you crazy sometimes. We all have our standards, and the more I read on this site the more my standards goes up. 
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« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2012, 06:48:13 PM »

I think there are times when you have to go with your gut and hope for the best. Right now it’s telling me there are better choices out there; if there isn’t well, no big deal. I’ll be content knowing I gave it my best shot.
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« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2012, 05:25:57 AM »

I too have see that pic before, but after your comment, I looked more closely at the things besides the engines. I never notices the "wall" behind the 6 cyls is actually a line of red box cars from the NY Central line, inside the buildings (windows behins the cars), interesting!
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