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Author Topic: 9N636646 - Real Z10?  (Read 1831 times)
1968RSZ28
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« on: April 16, 2012, 12:14:20 PM »

Any info on this car in the CRG database?  Full VIN: 124379N636646

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&item=150797561694&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Paul
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69pace
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, 12:48:44 PM »

Well if it is a Norwood car it will have Z10 on the tag, A LOS Z10 would only have the paint codes and the invoice would have pace setter on it. Other then that you would have to check the official Z10 registry if you can get the vin number and see if it is an original or a grown.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
1968RSZ28
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2012, 03:24:45 PM »

Well if it is a Norwood car it will have Z10 on the tag, A LOS Z10 would only have the paint codes and the invoice would have pace setter on it.

No Los Angeles built Z10's have ever been found and since LA was in the midst of a strike when most Z10's were built, it's very doubtful any were made there.

Other then that you would have to check the official Z10 registry if you can get the vin number and see if it is an original or a grown.

It's a Norwood car.  The VIN is listed in my original post.   Smiley

Paul
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william
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 04:13:04 PM »

A LOS Z10 would only have the paint codes and the invoice would have pace setter on it.

It has long been established that Z10s were not Pace Cars and were not affiliated with the race. The Z10 option is described on factory paperwork as "SPECIAL ACCENT STRIPING."
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KurtS
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 09:52:00 AM »

Yes, the car was found in TX in a shop in 2007. And RK Motors had it on ebay last year.
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 02:50:32 PM »

Don't see pic of trim tag. I assume it would show 04C?

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 03:48:09 PM »

In my research of Z-11's I found that Z-10 cousins were all Southwestern Zone Office "regional promotion" orders. Date ranges are from 04C to 05A with Norwood recorded vins of 12437N631599 to the latest at 124379N639637. There are no documented vehicles being produced at GMAD in LA. (they were on strike) All Z-10's were sold through dealerships in that zone with the exception of one special ordered in MO, and two in TN. Almost all the Z10s came with factory A/C since that was the purpose of the special run - convertibles in the desert is a hard seller for the dealerships and they wanted a coupe with A/C. Most had vinyl roofs (white) None have been found with 720 Orange hounds-tooth interiors. None have been located with 396/375's.  Most of the run of 300 units were 350/300's with three on the tree or four speed manuals with no consoles. Some were 3 speed manual with no console. All surviving 396's were 325's or 350's with automatics. Almost all had tilt steering, remote controlled mirror, and rosewood wheels. Many had fold down rear seats. The original registry website became a 2010 camaro site a while back with no references to the Z10 even though the url is still z10camaro.com. Wish I had mirrored it before it went away.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
KurtS
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2012, 10:30:40 PM »

Lots of generalities there that are incorrect. Many BB's had 4 speeds, many Z10's don't have AC, etc.
The complete story is at http://www.camaros.org/69pacer.shtml#Z10

That registry site has been gone for over 5 years. It didn't have much detailed info and never was fleshed out. There's also a Z10 Facebook page. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=o.346093302736#!/groups/346093302736/
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Kurt S
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69pace
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2012, 02:47:49 PM »

Lots of generalities there that are incorrect. Many BB's had 4 speeds, many Z10's don't have AC, etc.
The complete story is at http://www.camaros.org/69pacer.shtml#Z10 That registry site has been gone for over 5 years. It didn't have much detailed info and never was fleshed out. There's also a Z10 Facebook page. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=o.346093302736#!/groups/346093302736/
Yeah I didn't mirror the site because it seemed sketchy, and all that data was supposed to be from the confirmed survivors in that registry, not based on factory numbers that being said they never listed who vetted the data out once submitted or who compiled the stats on that page. I would think anyone who entered information got in without a check. The stats page was running from an mysql database but again no idea where that lived. And I think I remember there being two urls blended on the pages but I only bookmarked the z10camaro.com site link.

I often thought it would be interesting if CRG took their survivors registry stats and vins and matched it against your current database here at CRG and see what fleshed out for the real Z10's in that registry collection. I wonder how many were born Z10's verses created.  Same could be said for Z28's these days. Seems to be one on every corner for sale here in CT.

The other interesting item in the Z10 notes is that I can't remember which site or magazine had the ratty torn Arizona dealer notice of the regional run of Z10's or if it was attached to an much older auction sale but would suspect it was a fake since no one has been able to find another one in any condition. Maybe someone just altered the Z11 notice and then aged it. Some data in the Indy Pace Car book on the Z10 run also seems to be tweaked too like listing one as having blue stripes, but the vins listed in that source book look right date wise. How many Z10's do you have in your CRG stats? 

It looks like someone has a new project Z10 heading to their garage as the eBay auction closed on the shell of the Z10 found in the woods threaded over on TC. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=207550      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261005071769&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:MOTORS:1123  US $8,743.31 Will be interesting if the new owners pop up here or on TC soon. Always nice to see any Camaro being saved regardless of its rarity or condition, but you have to have deep passion and pockets for a project like that one. Would be nice to see its progress from field mess to daily driver.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
KurtS
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 07:36:17 PM »

I've seen few if any fake Z10's.
I think there's over 135 Z10's in the db.

I've never seen any vintage info on Z10's. Where does Donna mention blue stripes in her book?

That other Z10 was also discussed here: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=9458.0;all
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Kurt S
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 12:18:30 PM »

Is there any truth in the widely believed statements that regional runs of any product were subject to the GM fleet rules and were authorized in units of 200 or more?
If so 135 is a good percentage of a run believed to be under 300 units. Is there a stats sheet on the ones in your database such as number with factory ac, tilt wheels, rosewood wheel, engine and transmission combos?
 
Pardon my ignorance but who is Donna and what is her book called? The blue stripes reference is in "The Official Chevrolet Indy Pace Car Book from 1948 to 1990" by Crispino & Hooper. But they discredit them as not being true Z10's but another website years ago had one pictured and stated it was a special edition of the Z10's for a particular dealer who sponsored racing teams. I don't remember the name of the dealer or the team.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
KurtS
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 12:25:42 AM »

I've never heard any such statements. I've seen no evidence that Z10's were ordered as a fleet, esp since they went to lots of dealers, not just one.
I can't think of any other regional products. Certain dealers ordered Carolina Blue, Colorado Blue, and CA orange cars, but they were just ordered via the normal process.

Did you read my article? Production was 400-500. No, no stat sheet.

Donna = D. Crispino. Her book was "The Official Chevrolet Indy Pace Car Book from 1948 to 1990". What page mentions the blue stripes?
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Kurt S
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