CRG Discussion Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 24, 2014, 08:31:46 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the CRG Discussion Forum!
Forum registration problems: Make sure you enter your email correctly and you check your spam box first. *Then* email KurtS2@gmail for help.
105751 Posts in 12344 Topics by 4757 Members
Latest Member: chelltab
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  CRG Discussion Forum
|-+  Camaro Research Group Discussion
| |-+  Originality
| | |-+  Again, package tray/rear window mldg. trim paint? Suede? Ever see both?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 7 [All] Print
Author Topic: Again, package tray/rear window mldg. trim paint? Suede? Ever see both?  (Read 12929 times)
68camaroz28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 979



View Profile Email
« on: March 31, 2012, 05:57:56 PM »

First off some history of discussions of a not too long ago thread- http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7432.0
Yes I could have added to that thread but thought it might be more beneficial to add facts and work to find out what might have been different configurations. Here's why!
Numerous past discussions have discussed if the inside rear window & package tray mldg. was painted with suede paint similar to the dash or a satin to semi-gloss black. Seems the majority state just black but there were some notable exceptions from Camaro owners and a couple very knowledgeable people. I thought ours was just a semi-gloss black but upon careful inspection our originals seem to be clearly painted with both suede and a satin/semi-gloss black. I realize someone might say they could have been changed since leaving the factory, and yes anything is possible but I believe these to be unmolested pieces as everything in that area was original and typical except this. The backside of the mouldings had surface rust/scale and had no paint. This would indicate they were attached to the car prior to painting. The picture might not be the best but if you could see first hand they without a doubt look like the suede was partially put on after black. Has anyone else seen this?
Thoughts?
 
Logged

Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 05:44:49 PM »

Chick – I think you bring up a valid point. You probably did the same thing I did and punched-in the advanced search. There are a ton of threads on the topic and all indications lead to more than one finish; especially when you consider the number of differences in opinions among seasoned vets.

What really throws a wrench in this discussion is viewing your pic, John's and Charlie's. Yours on this thread and John & Charlie's on the thread you pasted. What really catches my eye is Charlie's (reply 30). You can't ask for much more than what He's shown; unmolested, low mileage, & obvious care from 40+ years of exposure which clearly illustrates a suede finish identical to the dash. Perhaps someone else has a similar well kept low mileage car who can snap a couple of pics we can view. The more the merrier and preferably from both plants. Since time impacts finishes, other pics must come from well preserved cars like Charlie's. Just one guys opinion but one I would use to make my own determination.

On the down side, someone else could photograph Charlie's car & 5 XS out of 10 it would appear as another finish. Oh well, good topic and I look forward to other responses.
Logged
68camaroz28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 979



View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 09:10:00 PM »

Well I asked Lonny and he told expressed two things. First off, he has not personally seen a first gen with suede paint on those trim pcs. and 2nd in his opinion its just a matter of old paint, UV rays, etc., and what he explained actually made sense in more ways than one as it might explain why someone might feel theirs was painted suede as just as I thought. I had placed this question with our build thread at team camaro and Scott had some excellent points as well.
Going to restore them with no suede......
But its still an interesting topic and I'm always all ears Grin  Cheesy   Wink
Logged

Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
Charley
Member
***
Posts: 414


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2012, 12:13:03 AM »

Well send Lonny over and he can see suede paint up close and personal and I can assure you he won't chalk it up to old paint, UV rays etc.
Logged

Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 06:19:13 AM »

Charley's survivor shows suede on the rear. http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7432.30 But some cars are not. If Chick's piece above is indeed suede, how did they control the spray pattern so precisely as the keep the finish on one side of the apex? Have another photo of that piece? Unfortunately the car is now painted so the evidence on the other metal is gone.
Logged
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 460


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2012, 01:07:32 PM »

Well send Lonny over and he can see suede paint up close and personal and I can assure you he won't chalk it up to old paint, UV rays etc.

Actually overtime the opposite happens, the suede finish actually deteriorates and smooths out. There is no question that in the 100 or so unrestored cars that i've either certified, inspected or looked at all had a suede finish. Rather than debate this I will take some pics of my survivor cars which were built in both plants. I would at least say that the suede finish is the norm and anything else was the exception.
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2012, 02:37:01 PM »

Original owner. Survivor car. The interior looks as good as when I brought it home.  Car has been garaged for at least 95% of its life.  The pictures, for what ever reasons, do not reflect the true color (black).

Pictures are as follows:  passenger side seat looking out front windshied (dash), passenger side outside looking in and down though the windshield (dash, specks are dirty windshield),  passenger side back seat looking out back window (trim).

Steve
Logged
Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 02:38:20 PM »

rear trim
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 03:39:56 PM »

Steve - sounds like you have the perfect car for this discusion. Difficult to tell by your pics though. Can you pull back a little and then adjust the pics with your photo shop? Sometimes I have to take a dozen or so pics to get one good one. PITA but I guess that's the way it goes. And...which plant was your car born in?

Thanks!
Logged
Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 04:26:52 PM »

Not the best photographer in the world that's for sure  Smiley. Will try again....need better lighting I think.

Norwood car.
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2012, 05:23:54 PM »

Package tray surrround does not look like the suede dash top in Steve's photo.

Dont use a flash when taking photos, use a secondary light source. Rest your camera on a semi soild surface like a firm pillow. Your parts do not appear black due to radiosity.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2012, 06:01:01 PM »

Steve - I agree with Scott when he says use a secondary light source. The flash has a tendency to bounce off the image distorting the pic. You might also try taking your pics outside of your garage & at different times of the day. Until you get an accurate rendition of your car’s rear window moldings paint texture. I have taken several closes up pics of paint and other detailed images and as I so eloquently stated before; it’s a PITA! So just be patient with it and I’m sure you’ll do fine. After all, you already conquered the most difficult part of photography when it comes to CRG…posting them!

Something else I’d like to throw out into the mix; if you guys post pics of low mileage, well preserved cars, please include a pic of both the dash & the package tray.  My guess is that both should have identical textures. Here’s why; I think it’s safe to say these cars were not painted by robots and all of the paint was mixed by hand. So, there were bound to be variations in finishes but each car should have the same finish (interior).

And last; is the term “Suede” an actual paint finish or was it just labeled this out of coincidence/a happy accident?
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2012, 06:53:59 PM »

'Suede" is just a name.  Texture additive, PPG DX1999 for instance, is used in the formula. So is flattening agent. You can achieve a similar result simply by under reduction and dry spraying.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2012, 08:04:42 AM »

If the suede finish pans out in this discussion, and it holds true for LA built cars, I will certainly choose it over the other two (semigloss/satin). It might just be me but there is something very unique/special about this finish. The information you provided above will be filled away with the rest of my stuff for future reference.

Thanks Scott.
Logged
68camaroz28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 979



View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2012, 09:01:19 PM »

Charley's survivor shows suede on the rear. http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7432.30 But some cars are not. If Chick's piece above is indeed suede, how did they control the spray pattern so precisely as the keep the finish on one side of the apex? Have another photo of that piece? Unfortunately the car is now painted so the evidence on the other metal is gone.
Our orig. pcs. are still virgin as I have not done anything to them yet so after easter I will take more pics from different angles and submit for review. Charley, understand yours probably has suede but many have said theirs did not. Lonny does know what to look at and he has not seen that in the past as others have said as well. I brought this up to look deeper into the possibilities, not to haggle among members or call out members/friends. Peace Smiley
Logged

Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2012, 11:27:01 PM »

Here are some pics of my original finish paint. The dash panel looks like a different finish than the rear window or the lower dash area. Rear window area looks closer to the lower dash than the upper dash. 68/11C Norwood car. But all 3 locations look different to me.









Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2012, 06:21:51 AM »

Mike – I took your first pic and adjusted it best I could. I think this is an example of what time and the elements can do to a finish. Unless each section of molding was painted separately (which is highly unlikely), you have two slightly different finishes on the same moldings and my guess is the two sections simply weathered differently. Or the distance of the gun changed from one location to the next. Anyone else?

BTW…how many miles & which plant?

Thanks
Logged
69Z28freak
Member
***
Posts: 363



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2012, 11:55:50 PM »

Hey Marty great eye. My car is a 11C 68 built 69 Norwood car. Standard Blue interior. Wouldn't that rear section have all been painted at once? Or were the corner pieces painted seperately at a different time. From what I recall the screws were chrome indicating that the corners were painted before being installed. Either way the upper dash panel seems to have a diffrent finish than the lower dash or the rear package tray moulding. It is also amazing how every part of the car has a different color finish due to the various materials and finishes. I never noticed it so much with black, but I think it is the same for all color interiors.
Logged

Mike 1969 Grandma Camaro
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2012, 05:51:03 AM »

Lacquer has poor adhesion to chrome, as do all paints. That's why it came off the screws, and would not have taken 40 years to do so. Corner pieces were painted in place. Color differences are not amazing because the paint on metal and the tints and pigments used in different materials are not the same.
  
Marty, that picture is not conclusive, indicative or definitive of a suede finish. To me they look nearly identical. The other blurry picture is worthless. If you study how reflections and highlights indicate texture, it helps to evaluate a surface. One has to know for photorealistic and realistic painting to produce an accurate and believable piece. Those surfaces deteriorated differently because they are in different locations. It's only natural some don't look the same. Light and shadow influence their appearance also. All elements must be taken into consideration when observing objects. Another subject entirely.

The body went though the entire paint prep process before those corner pieces were screwed in place. That is also why they may, but necessariy appear slightly different. The surface the lacquer was shot over was different. If one paints, one understands all these things. It helps if one has torn quite a few of these cars apart over the years also. Hands on experience makes a big difference in knowledge acquisition.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 07:26:59 AM by Sauron327 » Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2012, 07:47:58 AM »

I couldn't agree more. And trust me when I say all of what you've stated is taken into consideration when evaluating member's pics. Unfortunately, not all of us can take quality photographs like Charlie. So I do the best I can with what I have in front of me.  Smiley

And...no offense to Charlie, but I don't think even he would be able to duplicate the excellent pics he took. Peace Charlie. Grin
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2012, 08:05:43 AM »

Depends on the camera as well as the person behind it. Camera phones which many use can't compare to a good SLR. I have an older Canon Rebel XTi 10.1MP which is decent but certainly not a professional model.
Logged
lakeholme
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2172


*68-12D L30/M35*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2012, 08:49:47 AM »

Is there any factory documentation about interior paint finishes?
Logged

Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA (and restoring a 40 Buick Special for it)
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair, presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA, is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast USA."
Charley
Member
***
Posts: 414


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2012, 09:09:56 AM »

LOL...I think I took them with my I-phone.
Logged

Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2012, 09:24:58 AM »

Some cell phones take good pictures, others produce poor quality.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 09:53:36 AM by Sauron327 » Logged
Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2012, 09:36:55 AM »

My pictures are from my phone.  I have asked my oldest son who has some excellent professional type camera's and other associated gear to bring his equipment over.  I'm not sure when he will be able to as he lives about 50 minutes away.

FWIW looking at my dash (suede) it looks different, to my eye, than the rear window trim.
I will have to look again but I think the corner screws are chrome.  I'll look down in the Phillips head to see if there might be some paint.

Steve
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2012, 09:56:30 AM »

Steve, those shots are not bad, they show the surface well. Enough to see the dash top is suede and the rear package is not. A flash can sometimes ruin a shot. Other times it will cast shadows across the surface, showing texture but eliminating the rest of the object's clarity.
Logged
JohnZ
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 4125


View Profile Email
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2012, 09:58:01 AM »

Is there any factory documentation about interior paint finishes?

Nope. The detailed description of paint formulations and application equipment/techniques are contained in the Fisher Body OD (Operation Description) sheets, and they've never been published outside of GM.
Logged

'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG
lakeholme
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2172


*68-12D L30/M35*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2012, 10:07:29 AM »

Thanks, John.
So, without documentation and various views of original cars and a variety of expert opinions, how would one judge this interior finish issue???
Logged

Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA (and restoring a 40 Buick Special for it)
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair, presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA, is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast USA."
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1169


View Profile Email
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2012, 11:52:11 AM »

Is there any factory documentation about interior paint finishes?

Well sort of. The '69 Chevrolet page in the R-M refinishing manual has the following statement:

"Note Alpha-Cryl formulae containing No. 849 Suede Concentrate produce material of approximately a zero gloss as required. Upper instrument panel, radio auxiliary speaker grille, rear window defogger grille, back window lower garnish."

Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2012, 03:08:45 PM »

Scott - I thought about asking you to interperate Bill's R-M quote in lay terms so someone like me can understand what it means. I'd like to take it one step farther; would you be willing to shoot us a sample as per the same R-M and post pics so we all know what this finish should look like. I know this is asking a lot but is this request doable? I am very interested to see how close the results are to the finish on Charlie's car.
Logged
lakeholme
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2172


*68-12D L30/M35*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2012, 03:15:03 PM »

Thanks, William!
So is that considered adequate documentation in a model specific Camaro meet.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 03:34:53 PM by lakeholme » Logged

Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA (and restoring a 40 Buick Special for it)
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair, presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA, is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast USA."
68camaroz28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 979



View Profile Email
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2012, 04:28:56 PM »

Thanks, William!
So is that considered adequate documentation in a model specific Camaro meet.
Umm, good question! I know of several restored cars that do not have suede paint in that area and have not had points deducted either. Might be a good assumption judges accept both ways! Any judges out there that can answer?  As stated earlier though, I will post better pics of our corner pieces next week.
Logged

Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
william
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 1169


View Profile Email
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2012, 06:36:35 PM »

You need to remember you are looking at a 44 year old paint finish. When I had a rattle can of suede mixed for our '69 project I first tried it out on a parts car. It wasn't even close to the finish on the exposed dash top-but it was a perfect match to the area under the dash pad.

Clill's near perfect original '69 and the R-M data I provided should be all the "proof" you need. It was suede-get over it.
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2012, 07:27:09 PM »

I understand paint deterioration. Especially lacquer as opposed to catylized urethane. I don't doubt Charlie's car or others I've seen are suede. John's package tray seemed to appear as he stated, medium gloss. Upon examination m22mike's appears suede in comparison.
Here's a link showing William's R-M book reference. http://documents.clubexpress.com/documents.ashx?key=Mn9lNR5oNp9Osk1Oybo9zXiUl8H2ZPEfYNR%2fojqMOY6daTf3pOKmoYhGMkL2rkQ%2f
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2012, 07:36:31 PM »

Scott - I thought about asking you to interperate Bill's R-M quote in lay terms so someone like me can understand what it means. I'd like to take it one step farther; would you be willing to shoot us a sample as per the same R-M and post pics so we all know what this finish should look like. I know this is asking a lot but is this request doable? I am very interested to see how close the results are to the finish on Charlie's car.
I have to shoot a 68 dash top and rear package soon. Not sure if I'm using PPG or R-M. PPG jobber still has lacquer. Never had a reason to ask my R-M jobber for lacquer. If I cross it over to urethane I have to play with it.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2012, 07:54:22 PM »

Thank you Scott. I look forward to seeing the results!
Logged
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2012, 08:18:11 PM »

This R-M data is the same language that PPG has on their paint charts. I posted it before and got called out on it saying you can't go by what was printed on PPG charts and I was a fool for thinking that was correct. Thanks William for the information !!
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2012, 08:51:28 PM »

This R-M data is the same language that PPG has on their paint charts. I posted it before and got called out on it saying you can't go by what was printed on PPG charts and I was a fool for thinking that was correct. Thanks William for the information !!

Why? All paints can be mixed by all paint manufacturers. I do it every week. That's what formulas are for. The only difference is some company's tints may occasionally match better than another's. That applies primarily to newer colors. And some first gen colors are available in Glasurit 55-Line and waterborne but not PPG DBC for instance.  Or vehicle manufacturers who have a company "hold" their formulas. Like bikes for instance.
Logged
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2012, 09:07:45 PM »

Scott I'm talking about the Suede finish being used on the rear package tray area. I forgot who it was but they said that being on PPG paint charts didn't make it true. It plainly states on the chart that the rear window trim is -0- Gloss.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2012, 09:16:49 PM »

Scott I'm talking about the Suede finish being used on the rear package tray area. I forgot who it was but they said that being on PPG paint charts didn't make it true. It plainly states on the chart that the rear window trim is -0- Gloss.
I realize that. No reason one manufacturer's recommendations would differ from another's. They are on the same page so to speak. They have to be, it's their business.
Logged
Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2012, 12:24:52 PM »

From post #33 above:
Quote

Looking at the Camaro charts for 1968 and 1969 the back window lower garnish is listed as black A-946 (semi) for the 68 and black 168C41 (suede) for the 69.  Am I not a professional painter so I freely admit I can be missing something.  It also appears for the 68 that note 1 would allow the painter to adjust the amount of "flat" (849 suede concentrate) that can be added and needed to achieve the desired look.  Again I can be way off on this too.

Steve
Logged
Charley
Member
***
Posts: 414


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2012, 11:40:53 PM »

I took more pics of the low mile 69 and a couple 68's that have had a harder life. The finish on the 68's appears to have started as suede but different parts have degraded at different rates. Some look almost smooth but in one of the pics at the right angle you can see it was suede even though the same part in the pic above it looks shiny. This site doesn't host big enough pics so I posted them on my site with a link.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=487149&#Post487149

Logged

Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2012, 08:40:06 AM »

Charlie

The site contains boxes with ? In side each box.

Is your car a 70 model?  If so, have you looked at the charts (70 specifically) William provided above to compare it with what you have on your car?

Steve
Logged
Charley
Member
***
Posts: 414


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2012, 09:41:52 AM »

I see the pics just fine. Can anybody else see the pics ? The pics are from a 69 and two 68's.
Logged

lakeholme
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2172


*68-12D L30/M35*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2012, 10:15:44 AM »

I see the pics just fine. Can anybody else see the pics ? The pics are from a 69 and two 68's.

Nope!  I tried two different computers....
Logged

Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA (and restoring a 40 Buick Special for it)
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair, presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA, is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast USA."
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 460


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2012, 10:34:52 AM »

The pictures appear fine for me.
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2012, 11:27:44 AM »

Maybe you have to be a member to view pics on sYc. They're all "X'd" out for me also.
Logged
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2012, 11:34:11 AM »

I had to login to see the pics.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2012, 11:37:55 AM »

Hmmmm Wink
Logged
1968 Z28
Member
***
Posts: 440


View Profile Email
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2012, 01:06:40 PM »

Yep.....have to be a member and log in to see the photos.
Logged

Jerry G.

Z28-1968-07C-Norwood
Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2nd. Owner, 38,000 miles
Charley
Member
***
Posts: 414


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2012, 09:10:54 PM »

Somebody with a photobucket account can probably ave them and then post them. It would all be easier if Kurt just upped the pic size settings for the site.
Logged

tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2012, 09:18:47 PM »

Somebody with a photobucket account can probably ave them and then post them. It would all be easier if Kurt just upped the pic size settings for the site.

I'll get right on it. It may take me a minute but I'll get'em up.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2012, 09:20:58 PM »

From post #33 above:
Quote

Looking at the Camaro charts for 1968 and 1969 the back window lower garnish is listed as black A-946 (semi) for the 68 and black 168C41 (suede) for the 69.  Am I not a professional painter so I freely admit I can be missing something.  It also appears for the 68 that note 1 would allow the painter to adjust the amount of "flat" (849 suede concentrate) that can be added and needed to achieve the desired look.  Again I can be way off on this too.

Steve
The A-946 tintometer formula is for standard gloss, flatting agents are used to achieve desired gloss. Suede additive is also added to achieve desired texture. A-946 is just black off the mixing bank, and then you add to it. You'll see that A-946 is also for Tuxedo Black, the exterior color. Unpolished lacquer produces a semi-gloss finish. The Fisher (GM) Code is what you would give to a jobber. It helps to have the correct manufacturer code.

Now, if you look at a PPG book, the codes are for what the formula actually is. 9300 is black off the bank. But the interior codes are listed as 9317 and 9248 for '67, and 9317 and 9266 for '68 and '69. You are correct in your observation of the R-M book that the tints must be added to achieve the desired effect. Anyone can call BASF or PPG and talk to the tech line or library, and they will provide you with a formula if you give them a code. Explain to them what you are trying to do, they are more that willing to help. A jobber will not always be willing to help you. Some are more helpful and knowledgeable than others.
 
Most shops just mix their own to hit their target.


Logged
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2012, 09:27:32 PM »

Here They Are.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2012, 09:28:36 PM »

More to come.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2012, 09:29:38 PM »

More Pics
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
tmodel66
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1212


View Profile Email
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2012, 09:31:08 PM »

This is the last ones. Hope Kurt don't kill me for taking up so much space.
Logged

Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 460


View Profile
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2012, 09:26:10 PM »

Below pics of three of my survivor cars 9B Nor of 68 24k miles, 4D Nor 14K miles & 3D LA 31k miles. I did take a few other pics but these are a good representation of the suede finish.
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 460


View Profile
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2012, 09:28:20 PM »

3D LA built with 31K miles.
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
69pace
Member
***
Posts: 373



View Profile
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2012, 04:49:56 AM »

Who makes the best aerosol spray can suede paint for restoration?
Logged

1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2012, 08:21:02 AM »

Great pics guys! It's easy to see why this paint finish is so hard to nail down. Both Steve's low mileage Norwood cars have different finishes. I thought there would be some sort of correlation between plants and finishes but obviously that isn't the case. Even the LA car looks different than the other two; which doesn't surprise me because again, this mixture was made and applied by hand. What is definitive though is that all the areas Chick mentions (his thread title) should have the suede finish.

Another question was posed as to how these finishes should be judged. My 2-cents; It's clear that the majority of us, even seasoned vets, were unclear as to the correct finish as it pertains to this topic. What is also clear is that many restorations (including high-end restorations) missed this detail. Should these cars and their owners be penalized for leaving this detail out? Not only no, but hell no! We learn something new about these cars every day. And here is a case of even seasoned vets learning something new as well. However, I do think the suede finish needs to be phased in as a mandatory requirement; at least as it relates to high-end events. How this gets done is beyond my knowledge, but again, now that the cats out of the bag it should to be addressed.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2012, 09:31:17 AM »

As opinionated as most of us are, I find it extremely hard to believe I am the only member with an opinion as to how this matter should be addressed. This certainly can't be the only time new findings have surfaced with regards to these cars. Come on guys...state your case. I don't think you'll have to serve hard time for simply stating an opinion. How have these issues been resolved in the past?
Logged
lakeholme
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2172


*68-12D L30/M35*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2012, 11:22:47 AM »

Resolved?
Marty, I'm sending you a PM.
Logged

Phillip
HNR-AACA, Senior Master
Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA (and restoring a 40 Buick Special for it)
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair, presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA, is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast USA."
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2012, 01:12:58 PM »

Thanks.
Logged
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 460


View Profile
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2012, 01:42:46 PM »

The suede examples I presented are typical of what I have seen. That is certainly not absolute proof that every car had that type of finish. We have seen a few examples with satin finishes and they may be an exception. There may be a time period that the satin finish was used or quality control issues. As I stated prior opinions are just that, and I think we need more samples/examples. I will say based on my experience suede is my choice, and that is what I have used in the past. Remember the rear stripes dimensions anomoly on the 69 Z's built in a specific time period.   
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2012, 05:29:46 PM »

Steve,

"The suede examples I presented are typical of what I have seen. That is certainly not absolute proof that every car had that type of finish".  
I agree.

"We have seen a few examples with satin finishes and they may be an exception".  
I have only seen 4 well preserved low mileage examples and they're all suede finishes. What was/is the condition of those cars and their mileage and can we/I see pics?

"There may be a time period that the satin finish was used or quality control issues".
Purely speculative.

"As I stated prior opinions are just that, and I think we need more samples/examples".
I couldn't agree more.

Thanks!    
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2012, 06:27:09 PM »

Does John H's Z count as a well preserved car? His appears to be just satin as he stated in the other thread..
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2012, 06:43:58 PM »

I knew it was just a matter of time... Embarrassed Well, I've stuck my neck out this far so I may as well stick it out the rest of the way Undecided;  I think it's pretty obvious that John's Z is one of, if not the best, original examples we have. However, and I realize I'm walking on thin ice here, even though John states his finish is med gloss (not satin-Reply 5) http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7432.0, I can almost swear I see hints of suede.

There I've said it. Have your way with me but be gental. Smiley
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2012, 08:49:56 PM »

Satin, medium gloss....misstatement of no great importance. Gloss percentages are on a scale. There is no exact satin or medium gloss. Throw eggshell and matte into the picture if you want to add more sheen variations. The mind cannot recall color and sheen to a certain degree. If you walked across a parking lot and looked at another car that was 5-10% different in gloss you would not be able to tell. John's does not have the grainy appearance and only he would know the actual appearance and how it deteriorated.

Have fun. You can add these variations, if any, to the tailpanel gloss level debate, and the characteristics of lacquer paint and wear.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2012, 10:46:51 PM »

Flat, satin, medium gloss, gloss, etc...my lay definitions; satin looks like flat gloss, medium gloss looks like a medium gloss, gloss looks like gloss & suede looks like painted glitter. Any more information than that and I'll have to start charging admission. My point is (& please Scott-I mean absolutely no disrespect!), this is a simple research topic and any more information than that simply clouds the issue. Plain and simple, one or more of these finishes above were used on the interior of our cars. So far we have John's car which is painted med gloss, Steve who stated he has also seen them painted in satin, and then there's Bill who's opinions we highly value; "its suede-get over it". Let's not forget that Bill's comment is also backed by R-M data.
 
So, with everything that has been discussed is anyone willing to take a stand as to what the accepted finish/finishes should be?  Or should we just say the %ell with it and what ever you end up with from your painter will work at all major judged events?
Logged
paceme
Member
***
Posts: 460


View Profile
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2012, 11:41:04 PM »

Let me clarify...as  I stated previously I have only observed the use of suede finish on the
package trim in over 35 years of owning, collecting,judging and inspecting camaros. The examples I mention were John H & Lonnie. Again if there are other examples of satin finishes I would like to see and verify.
Logged

Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2012, 05:43:51 AM »

The suede locaton info is on the PPG charts as well as R-M.  Someone could borrow or buy a gloss meter, which measures up to 2000 gloss units, and an orange peel meter, which will provide texture analysis. Readings of survivor cars could be taken. This data, the paint charts, and the accompanying survivor photos could be presented to set a new judging acceptance standard. Acceptable finish sample cards could be shot and compared to cars beng judged. An acceptable variation range would have to be determined.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2012, 07:54:45 AM »

Scott's recommendation is an example of what sets CRG apart. No nonsense, no BS, do a little research, do it correctly, and come up with the facts. Thanks, I don't think there is a better solution out there.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2012, 11:33:24 AM »

...and, what better qualified organization to assist with this than the; Vintage Certification Program. Would this be a possibility, Steve?
Logged
68camaroz28
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 979



View Profile Email
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2012, 09:16:14 PM »

Untouched original blue interior- Checked this car out today and it seemed to this untrained eye to be non-tectured but close ups  seem to be similar to others posted but again looking at it I would not have called it a suede finish but you be the judge. Smiley




Our 68 Interior corner pcs.! Again, you be the judge. Smiley


Logged

Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2012, 09:34:30 PM »

Excellent pics Chick. And you are correct. A guy needs to get close to this type finish to see the texture. I'd have to say its suede.

Just look for a texture that in today's day & age would have been flagged for repaint. Wink
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2012, 09:35:19 PM »

Untouched original blue interior- Checked this car out today and it seemed to this untrained eye to be non-tectured but close ups  seem to be similar to others posted but again looking at it I would not have called it a suede finish but you be the judge. Smiley

Our 68 Interior corner pcs.! Again, you be the judge. Smiley

It's suede, and so is your 68. The top has just laid down and deteriorated. Suede does not imply it has to look identical to the adjective it is. It's just a textured finish. And as we see, it varies. Reduction, temp and application have an effect on appearance, not to mention age.
Logged
Paul68RS/Z28
Member
***
Posts: 71


View Profile
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2012, 07:50:13 AM »

FWIW, My 68 Z is suede, areas on the back shelf look just like the top of the dash. It is hard to tell, but looks the same to me, similar to Chicks.

Paul
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2012, 10:57:29 AM »

Paul - can you post pics of your dash and package tray window molding?
Logged
Paul68RS/Z28
Member
***
Posts: 71


View Profile
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2012, 12:59:39 PM »

I'm trying, but it keeps kicking back my post, stating timed out.

Paul
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2012, 01:10:36 PM »

I'm not sure what's going on today but CRG is real slow on my end as well.

Be sure to down-size your pics ahead of time. Somewhere close to 100KB.
Logged
Paul68RS/Z28
Member
***
Posts: 71


View Profile
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2012, 06:39:05 PM »

I've tried to re-size them, still can't get them small enough, I'm giving up. Undecided

One thing I also noticed when taking the pictures of the back trim area; there is a paint line were it transitioned from black to British Green. Mines is a deluxe interior, so I guess it didn't matter how it looked under the panel.

Paul
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2012, 07:01:52 PM »

If you get inspired to try it again this might help; http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7215.0

Or send them to my email address and I'll post them for you. The problem with mine is that they are pics of pics and the quality for this type study IMO isn't good enough.
Logged
Paul68RS/Z28
Member
***
Posts: 71


View Profile
« Reply #83 on: April 16, 2012, 07:11:29 PM »

Ok, one more time. Look at the lower right corner of the tray area, you can see suede there.


I never could get the one showing the paint line down to a sendable size.


Paul
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #84 on: April 16, 2012, 07:54:08 PM »

Paul- You did a great job with your first pic. Not too many guys can top that one, me included. Not sure what happend with the second one. I think it might just be slightly out of focus. Also, try to crop your pic right down the center of the paint line.

Anyway, I'd have to say both are suede.

Thanks!
Logged
Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #85 on: May 07, 2012, 01:43:33 PM »

More pictures of my 68 Camaro taken with professional camera and equipment.  Original owner.  Original interior.  Front dash (suede), rear side and corner trim (looks like semigloss to me), rear window lower trim (does not look suede or semigloss to me.....is black but flatter than corner).

Steve
Logged
crobjones2
Member
***
Posts: 299


View Profile
« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2012, 08:58:54 PM »

After following this thread for some time, I was moved to climb into my project.
Marty
My 69 06A has a texture on the dash, texture on the package tray, and potentially texture on the sides and rear pieces,  But The corners show no signs of texture
It looks exactly like Steve's above - just in rougher shape
Logged

Chris
69 SS 350
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2012, 08:58:15 AM »

The '69 Chevrolet page in the R-M refinishing manual has the following statement:

"Note Alpha-Cryl formulae containing No. 849 Suede Concentrate produce material of approximately a zero gloss as required. Upper instrument panel, radio auxiliary speaker grille, rear window defogger grille, back window lower garnish."

This GM quote posted by William should be the only confirmation ’69 Camaro owners need to reach a conclusion. It is also one of many clear cut examples of a directive given by GM for a specific task. My guess is that this was an example of automakers early attempts at addressing glare related customer complaints. Each component listed above are areas of obvious concern. If they weren't then all other interior paint finishes including the lower instrument panel would have been given this suede finish or vise versa.

There are many excellent examples of what this suede finish should look like; none better than Charley's ‘69 survivor with only 9800 miles;

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/482559/1

As for differences between Norwood and LA, this shouldn't even come into play. Simply stated, a directive was given. I would say 95% of the pics on this thread show suede finishes. But that's just a matter of opinion. Bottom line; we know now what was required by GM for the ‘69? Is there a same directive given by GM for the ’68? There would be your answer.

Chris - the corners would have been painted separately. The problem I'm seeing with the different variations in paint finishes isn't in what was required but rather who was applying it. In other words; human error. Wink


Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2012, 09:16:04 AM »

Is that really a quoted GM directive or information provided by R-M for painting instructions to achieve a desired result? Info like this can be found in a PPG color book. Similar to a TDS (technical data sheet), which all paint manufacturers provide.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2012, 09:29:38 AM »

Only individual’s privy to that information can answer that. I am simply going by what’s in front of me and basing my opinion accordingly. In addition, one would think that R-M would have thoroughly researched this information before going viral with it.  Wink  
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2012, 10:35:44 AM »

It's standard practice for paint companies to provide color matching information. A painter needs to know what to grab off the bank and how to mix it to match a color. That's why there are codes, formulas and footnotes. Nothing out of the ordinary here. It's done every day, all day. I've never seen a TDS put a car company's directive in quotations. Matching paint can often be challenging but the basic procedure is common knowledge to those in the business. Once a car comes in for repair, it's up to the shop to match the paint.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2012, 11:44:48 AM »

Scott - I understand/I get it…it still doesn’t change my position based on the evidence I have in front of me. If and when I restore my car the suede finish shown on Charley’s car as well as those on paceme’s cars are exactly what I’ll be shooting for.
Logged
Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #92 on: May 10, 2012, 12:26:25 PM »

Marty

Do you think my rear window trim looks suede?

Steve
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #93 on: May 10, 2012, 01:04:02 PM »

Steve – No, I don't think it looks like suede. And, without getting into the long drawn out version. My apologies ahead of time; I think the line guy either screwed up, the previous owner rubbed the original finish out, weather related, or all the above.

Once again, this is my honest opinion as to why this finish was selected by GM; My guess is that this was an example of automakers early attempts at addressing glare related customer complaints. Each component listed above (referring to Bill's post) are areas of concern. If they weren't then all other interior paint finishes including the lower instrument panel would have been given this suede finish or vise versa.”

And, we can go on and on about this but with all due respect; this is my stand and no one is going to change my mind. End of discussion from this guy...on this topic.  Wink
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #94 on: May 10, 2012, 03:34:23 PM »

Scott - I understand/I get it…it still doesn’t change my position based on the evidence I have in front of me. If and when I restore my car the suede finish shown on Charley’s car as well as those on paceme’s cars are exactly what I’ll be shooting for.

Change what position? Where is it stated the surfaces are not supposed to be suede? It's right on the paint charts. Do you understand how the tint and additive information informs the painter how to mix the paint? It's simple: A car comes into the shop, and paint is mixed using the formula to match the suede finish, or evidence as you say, of that car. A formula may have to be altered to match that particular car; or spraying technique modified. It doesn't make a difference what paint company either. If you want to shoot for the target in the photos, you can't do it without understanding what tints and additives to grab from the mixing bank. That's what that example of the R-M book illustrates.  No different than any other paint company.

If a person wants to play, go buy some tints, mix the paint and shoot your own test panels. Then you'll have hands on experience with the literature and the products. Shoot the same batch using different techniques and you'll get different results. SEM texture coating provides various levels of finish too depending on how you lay it down. It's cheap. Try a can.
Logged
Steve68
CRG Member
*****
Posts: 506


View Profile
« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2012, 03:43:34 PM »

Marty

Do you think it's at all possible that the line guy painted the trim as required for a 68?  Since I'm the original owner of this car we can discount any rubbing out of the trim and the car has been garaged for about 95 % of its life.  Even if it had not been garaged I would expect the front dash suede to have weathered too.  It clearly is in excellent condition.  I do think the trim below the window is flatter than the side pieces which are semigloss.  It is sufficiently flatter to keep any glare down in my opinion.  We have seen many deviations from the AIM on these cars so I would not be surprised that there were some deviations with paint as well.

Steve
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2012, 04:04:35 PM »

Sorry Steve. I over looked the year of your car. I was only referring to 69's.
Logged
IZRSSS
Guest
« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2012, 04:23:11 PM »

Scott - I understand/I get it…it still doesn’t change my position based on the evidence I have in front of me. If and when I restore my car the suede finish shown on Charley’s car as well as those on paceme’s cars are exactly what I’ll be shooting for.

Change what position? Where is it stated the surfaces are not supposed to be suede? It's right on the paint charts. Do you understand how the tint and additive information informs the painter how to mix the paint? It's simple: A car comes into the shop, and paint is mixed using the formula to match the suede finish, or evidence as you say, of that car. A formula may have to be altered to match that particular car; or spraying technique modified. It doesn't make a difference what paint company either. If you want to shoot for the target in the photos, you can't do it without understanding what tints and additives to grab from the mixing bank. That's what that example of the R-M book illustrates.  No different than any other paint company.

If a person wants to play, go buy some tints, mix the paint and shoot your own test panels. Then you'll have hands on experience with the literature and the products. Shoot the same batch using different techniques and you'll get different results. SEM texture coating provides various levels of finish too depending on how you lay it down. It's cheap. Try a can.

For now I'm satisfied just knowing the differences in textures. You'll be the first to know when I decide to turn pro. Grin
Logged
Sauron327
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 857



View Profile
« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2012, 08:41:19 AM »

This was shot with SEM aerosol texture coating. Also available in quarts, clear or black. Black dries to zero gloss. I shot over it with SEM Trim black and knocked it back a little with flattening agent because satin trim black is too glossy for a dash top. The texture is easily manipulated for the effect preferred. Results varied as seen in the examples posted in this thread. Shadows in photos can vary the appearance from actual surface texture. You can also mix your own, or have it mixed at your jobber as I stated earlier.

This coating should not be applied to any surface where urethane is used for glass installation. Only epoxy over bare metal is used under urethane installations. Some glass shops will do installations over topcoated window channels, but urethane over epoxied bare metal is the preferred method for maximum adhesion and performance.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 09:10:04 AM by Sauron327 » Logged
ZBM 100
Newbie
*
Posts: 14


View Profile
« Reply #99 on: November 28, 2012, 02:01:31 PM »

Who makes the best aerosol spray can suede paint for restoration?
krylon camo black
http://www.dekesrus.com/Krylon/krylon_spray_fusion_flat_black_camo.JPG
Logged
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1252



View Profile WWW
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2012, 06:55:49 PM »

FIRST PIC:
This is my 1968 GTO under the dash pad, which had never been removed.
This shows it better as the two gloss levels are on the same visual plane.
It is 0 deg gloss ie FLAT and TEXTURED.

SECOND PIC:
1969 Z28 dash top removed Cowl Grille.
Shows the differences well, however in person it is VERY VERY Visible.
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
firstgenaddict
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1252



View Profile WWW
« Reply #101 on: December 02, 2012, 07:09:34 PM »

Here is a picture of an ORIGINAL Dash Suede in Brown for a 1973 Z28 which I am currently restoring.
The over spray shows that a mist can appear to be both SUEDE and SEMI-GLoss.

 
Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Pages: 1 2 3 ... 7 [All] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.149 seconds with 17 queries.