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Author Topic: 68 396 Power Steering Pump  (Read 4912 times)
rod396
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« on: March 19, 2012, 06:26:39 PM »

Does anyone have a picture(S) of a correct 396 power steering pump for a '68, of the backside, showing the nipples/tubes that the hoses attach to? details of the curves, etc.
The AIM does not show this in detail specific to this engine. I have been told the tubes curve upward, and also been tiold downward.
This is one question where a photo would be "worth a thousand words".
Thank you for any help you can provide
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2012, 07:52:00 PM »

I don't know if the small-block p/s return line tube is positioned the same as a big-block, but here's a photo of a '68 Z/28 power steering pump I pulled off a wrecked car myself in 1981.

Ooops, I get this message: "Your file is too large. The maximum attachment size allowed is 300 KB."

I'll try to resize and post later tonight as I've to coach soccer now.

Paul
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2012, 08:56:40 PM »

Here you go.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=158189&highlight=pump

Ed

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rod396
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2012, 11:33:31 PM »

 Cheesy
 Ed, thank you very much! That solves my mystery; turns out I have 3 of them! I am rebuilding mine for my '68 l34. Thanks to you, I will be certain that I won't be wasting my time on an incorrect pump.
THANKS!!!!!
Rod.

 
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2012, 11:34:12 PM »

Thanks to Ed's photo I now know the small-block power steering return line tube is positioned different than the one on a big-block.  As promised, here's a photo of the one I yanked off a wrecked '68 Z/28...



Paul
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rod396
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2012, 11:42:23 PM »

Thanks for your effort in showing the small block pump.
I will keep it for reference.
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 12:44:29 AM »

No problem.  As noted above, I learned something too!

Paul
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 08:37:25 AM »

Check the DATES on your pumps and let me know what you have.

Ed
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rod396
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2012, 11:07:33 AM »

Ed, where are the dates located?
I didn't know they were dated.
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tmodel66
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 01:04:15 PM »

Ed, where are the dates located?
I didn't know they were dated.

Go back to Ed's previous post and click DATES that's underlined. That will take you to a thread to read about date positions.
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Daniel  
'69 SS 350/4 speed  Fathom Green--POP
big iron
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2012, 10:58:05 AM »

All 67,68 V8's used the same #7800515 pump ( I believe 67 Corvettes used the same pump) with the return and pressure lines at the bottom.
The 67,68 AIM N40 A6 shows the correct routing of the hoses with sleeves installed.
If you go to the 67 AIM N40 A10 it shows the BB brackets and hoses. I would think they are the same for your 68 BB.
Do not forget the sleeves, 90% of restored 67,68's do not have them. No they are not reproduced.
Bob
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rod396
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 01:22:18 PM »



Thanks for your posting.
   Well, now I am up in the air about this. I do not have a '67 AIM; can you or another member scan and post the page showing this detail? Your statement about the '68 should be the same makes perfect logical sense to me.
  I have a number of these pumps, 2 being exactly the same as in the photo Ed posted, and some with minor differences (return line) that still put the return line ending point in approx. the same position.
   I also have one or 2 that exit below.
   I also received a personal reply stating the picture Ed posted was of a Passenger car pump.
HELP!!
   Any help/clearification would be appreciated.
Thank you ???
   Rod.
 
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1968 Z28
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2012, 02:06:55 PM »

Try this...

     1967 Camaro Assembly Instruction Manual - http://www.filedropper.com/1967camarofactoryassemblymanual
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Jerry G.

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Ermine White, Red Std. Interior
2 Owner, 38,000 miles
rod396
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 02:47:41 PM »

Thank you.
I downloaded it, and it does say "V8 engine", but wonder if it is a generic reference; I would still like confirmation of an original, if any still exist.
As stated before, I have been told from the top, and towards the bottom (return lines).
Ed, on your car, are you using the same configuration pump as per the photo you sent? Or is yours exiting toward the bottom?
Does any 2 of the configurations (upper or lower return line) present any interference/clearence issues?
I just want to be sure.
I greatly appreciate anyone's help.
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 02:58:14 PM »

Here's a photo of a '68 Z/28 engine bay...



Notice in the photo that both the power steering pressure and return lines face downward.  The '68 AIM shows this detail too.

Paul
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2012, 03:21:53 PM »

The first link I posted (Reply #2 above) is a picture I grabbed from ebay several years ago. It was being advertised as a 68 Camaro 396 pump. (But then again, what on ebay ISN'T for a Camaro!!)

The second link I posted (Reply #7) shows a picture of the pump that came with my car when I first got it. It WASN'T attached to the engine, but was sitting in the trunk instead. At the time (and for a long time), I thought it was the original pump for my car since it's exactly like the one in the ebay auction, but the date (November 28th, 1966) shows it to be for a 67 and not a 68.

By the way, that pump is now in my car and it fits just fine. Is it 68 Camaro big block? Is it full size?

HuhHuh

Ed

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rod396
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2012, 04:19:44 PM »

Yes, but that, being a Z28, is a small block, right?
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big iron
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2012, 06:03:09 PM »

The 69 P&A only shows one pump ( 7800515 ) for all the 67,68 V8 Camaros. The pumps are the same but the BB hoses are longer and have different numbers.
I had a 396 68 SS/RS (bought it new) and it had the same arrangement as is shown in the 67 AIM.
I am building 67 BB and it will have the pump as shown in the 67 AIM.
Just checked my 67 Corvette BB and the AIM and the pump is the same (different #) but has a female connector for the high pressure hose. Return is in the same location as the 67,68 Camaro.
ED,
I have another pump like your's and it is from a 67? BB Chev.
Bob
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rod396
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2012, 06:09:39 PM »

Thanks for your efforts and your reply.
At this point, I will assume the pic sent by 68z28 would be the correct one for my application.
Thanks again
Rod.
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2012, 06:09:55 PM »

Okay boys and girls. Martin sent me a picture of the "correct" 67-68 Camaro big block pump and it was veified by Troy (thanks guys), so here you go.

Like Bob noted, it appears mine is from a 67 full size. Time to junk it!!

Ed

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big iron
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2012, 06:18:22 PM »

ED,
Do not junk it as maybe some of the Pass guys may need one. I think that the 66 Pass. BB was a rather rare ride. Grin
Bob
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2012, 06:19:24 PM »

Good point Bob. Time for ebay!

Ed
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big iron
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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2012, 06:45:13 PM »

Just looked it up and the 66 Pass was available with a 427 390 or 425HP. I have always liked the 427's, broad power band. Not only rare but must have been fun to drive.
Bob
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Mike S
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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 06:49:59 PM »

 This is a rear shot taken thru the motor mounts of the BB pump on my original 67 LOS 4B L35.
Comparing Ed's picture to this the return nipple bend looks correct relative to the lower mounting stud.
Hope this helps.

Mike
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 07:13:44 PM »

Okay boys and girls. Martin sent me a picture of the "correct" 67-68 Camaro big block pump and it was veified by Troy (thanks guys), so here you go.

Looks exactly the same as the photo of the '68 Z/28 power steering pump I posted in reply #4!   Roll Eyes

Paul
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big iron
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 07:34:37 PM »

Mike,
The high pressure line should go down and under the engine sand with the return line. Is the high pressure hose original ? Should not be a 90 degree at the pump but more like a 45 degree fitting on the hose. The 67 AIM N40 A6 gives explicit instructions on how these lines are to be installed so that engine torque does not fatigue the fitting and does not cause problems with the hoses.
Do you have the sleeves on your hoses?
Bob
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big iron
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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 07:42:03 PM »

Paul,
Your's is correct except for the lack of rubber sleeves.
Bob
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 07:49:23 PM »

Well, according to the 67 and 68 AIM, and the September, 1968 P&A, ALL 67-68 Camaro V8 applications used the same pump assembly (P/N 7800515) and the same reservoir (P/N 5692845).

I could have sworn the big block was different than the small block. Old age I guess!

Ed
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Mike S
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« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 08:02:16 PM »

Mike,
The high pressure line should go down and under the engine sand with the return line. Is the high pressure hose original ? Should not be a 90 degree at the pump but more like a 45 degree fitting on the hose. The 67 AIM N40 A6 gives explicit instructions on how these lines are to be installed so that engine torque does not fatigue the fitting and does not cause problems with the hoses.
Do you have the sleeves on your hoses?
Bob

Hi Bob,

  The hoses were on the car when I bought it back in 1980 and they still have the sponge like sleeves and the round rubber coated ring circling them. The car did have headers installed when I bought it and I put the original manifolds back when I brought it home (the owner supplied them). The hose routing was draped upwards to clear the headers and I never bothered to route them back on the other side of the mount.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 08:07:42 PM »

Well, according to the 67 and 68 AIM, and the September, 1968 P&A, ALL 67-68 Camaro V8 applications used the same pump assembly (P/N 7800515) and the same reservoir (P/N 5692845).

I could have sworn the big block was different than the small block. Old age I guess!

Ed


Ed, time to trade the Camaro in for a wheelchair!   Wink

Paul
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big iron
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« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2012, 08:35:08 PM »

Mike,
Would it be possible to get a picture of the rubber coated ring you mentioned? Have seen metal clips but am intrigued by the rubber coating. Grin
Is there anything special about the clip that holds the high pressure hose to the gear box?
Bob
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 09:00:33 PM by big iron » Logged
rod396
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« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2012, 11:13:26 PM »


Well, i guess the most current photo posted by Ed confirms this. This is the version I will now pursue. You are dead-on about your ebay comment; everything was off of a "Camaro" and was, in addition, of course, an "SS".   
Regarding the hose sleeves; the material is similar to rubber plumbers pipe insulation, I have seen it on period and later other GM models As I remember, it was semi-bonded to the hoses to keep the purpose of its location. smooth outer surface and the inner core a bit more textured.
Thanks for all the replies everyone.

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Steve68
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« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2012, 12:57:37 PM »

I still have the original pump in my 68 L78 (original owner and unretored).  Do you want me to take a picture and post?

Steve
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2012, 12:58:21 PM »

Please do Steve.

Ed
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rod396
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« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2012, 01:45:31 PM »

That would be great; multiple views, if at all possible.
Thanks.
Rod.
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Steve68
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« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2012, 08:18:37 AM »

I'll try to get at least one pic up by this afternoon. 
Quote
multiple views, if at all possible.
.  I will try but there is not very much room to maneuver a camera in this area........with the L78 there is not much room left in the engine compartment anywhere.  I love that big block!!!   Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin

Steve
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Steve68
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« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2012, 06:59:17 PM »

Very difficult to get good pictures.  Very tight space to work in.  Might try to lift car and get some shots from underneath at some point.  The hose picture is the hose after I removed it from the pump several years ago.  It rubbed through and started to leak.  I believe (to the best of my memory) that this was the original one.  If you look closely you can tell the newer hose is the one without any paint and has a sticker (part number) rapped around it.

Steve
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big iron
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« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2012, 07:46:34 PM »

Steve,
What was the finish on the hose ends, silver or gold?
Bob
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Steve68
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« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2012, 08:07:59 PM »

Quote
Steve,
What was the finish on the hose ends, silver or gold?
Bob

Bob, looking at the replaced hose it looks like silver.  However this hose probably was on the car for around 30 years or more so any gold plating that may have been on the ends may have long ago disappeared.

Steve
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big iron
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« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2012, 08:54:41 PM »

Steve,
Usually the finish can be seen under the fitting.
In reply 30 I asked Mike about a clip and clamp could you comment?
Thanks.
Bob
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rod396
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« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2012, 09:30:54 PM »

Steve;
Thanks for the photos.
One question though; the return line, is it curved upward where the hose attaches or downward?
Also, does it look to be the same clock angle/configuration/bend as the one in the photo posted (showing the one sitting on a patio table, with the blue protector on the nipple)??
Thanks for your efforts on this increasingly-interesting topic.
Rod.
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Steve68
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« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2012, 12:01:36 PM »

Bob and Rod

I will check for both of on your questions.  Real busy right now but I will get to them ASAP.

Steve
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Steve68
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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2012, 10:16:23 AM »

OK, let's see if I can answer Bob an Rod.  Sorry to have taken so long it has just been a busy time for me.  I am willing to help any way I can.

Bob, are you talking about under the crimped fittings on the high pressure hose?  If so, it's so tight there that I could not get a small flat blade screw driver under the fitting.  I would have to remove the hose from the fitting to see.  If I'm off base on this let me know.  Second, you are talking about a clamp on the low pressure hose on the ends....... right?

Rob, the return line is bent down (toward the Bottom of the reservoir) and to the right viewing the pump from the back side.  I will have to get under the car I think to be able to see how much angle is on it.  In my picture it looks like I attached the high pressure replacement line  something more like 40 degrees.......I probably did this to help eliminate another rub through.

Steve
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rod396
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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2012, 11:26:54 AM »

 :)Thanks, Steve! That bit of info does help.
Rod.
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Steve68
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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2012, 02:04:57 PM »

Rod

Took another look at the pressure hose angle and it looks like it is just slightly turned more to the right than a line drawn between the two attachment bolts.  This would be about 15 degrees if I had to guess.

Bob

There is a clip that holds the hose at the gear box.   It does have a unique shape.  Will try to get a pic for you.   The low pressure hose is held on by worm type Clamp at both ends ......I don't think they are original but just don't recall if/when I might have substituted them (if I did).  There are rubber like sleeves on the hoses for protection.  They are about 5" long.

As for a picture from underneath the car.......no way.  The view is almost completely blocked.  Cry


Steve
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rod396
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« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2012, 10:01:28 AM »

Steve:
Thanks for the additional info.
Your approx. 15 degree estimation is about on par with the photo of the one on the table, of which is apparently a correct pump.
This wil be a big help now in finding the correct pump.
Thanks
Rod.
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Steve68
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« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2012, 02:49:57 PM »

Your welcome Rod.

Bob, I have attached 2 pictures of the hose clip that is a part of the gear assembly.  It has a "U" shape on the part that holds the hose and is slanted.  I hope the pictures will show the slanted aspect to the "U" shape part.
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big iron
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« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2012, 03:09:14 PM »

Steve,
There is a spring clamp that holds the two hoses together between the gear box and the sleeves. Mike said the clamp was rubber coated but the one I have is plain steel as shown in 67 AIM N40 A10 #10. Just wondering if yours is rubber coated?
The clip on the gear box I have is a reproduction and was looking for more detail. such as number's or manufacturer's markings and finish.
If you take the old high pressure hose and pull the fittings back you should be able to see the original finish.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Grin
Bob
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Steve68
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« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2012, 03:49:42 PM »

I don't see the spring clamp right off.  If it is still there it must be down under.  Will take another look.
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rod396
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« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2012, 04:38:43 PM »

Bob,
I removed an original clamp that mounts to the gearbox this weekend from a '70 Nova, exactly the same thing as in Steve's photos.
The Phosphate coating was well-preserved due to this car being an oil leaker since day one.
No vendor stamp anywhere, but it is phosphate plated dark gray. This car was 100% bone-stock V8 4-door.
No evidence of any spring clamp or similar retainer holding the hoses together.
The return line had the sleeve around it, roughly 8 inches long, which strongly resembles Steve's, looks identical to the rubber copper pipe protector/insulation that you see at Home Depot (I have never seen the other protective sleeve as on Steve's pressure line, and I have stripped many of these and other similar GM cars over the past 30 years), but maybe his is original. If not, it sure looks like a smart idea in the interest of protection.
Rod.
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big iron
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« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2012, 05:38:36 PM »

Steve,
Great shot of the clip, now I know what to look for. My repo. looks close but they have made structural modifications and the metal looks thicker.
Bob
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Steve68
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« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2012, 06:48:37 PM »

Rod

Both the return and pressure lines have the original protective sleeves on them.  I am estimating the length at 5" but as the sleeves are down under for the most part I'm not positive. Getting a ruler on them would be difficult to say the least.

Bob

Glad it helps.  I'm positive the clip is original.  As I'm sure you already know the "slant" in the "U" portion makes sure the hose routing is right.  How is the repo different?

Just a friendly reminder that I'm the original owner of my car and with few exceptions still all original.   For instance the voltage regulator on the car is a replacement but I still have the original in a box.  Other things like the original battery and tires are long gone however I do still have an original spare tire that was retreaded back in the 70's some time.  It's a Tiger Paw red line.   Smiley

Steve
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« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2012, 08:47:23 PM »

Steve/ Ron,
All first gen. (67-68-69) V8's had sleeves 3791814 on both hoses. ( not reproduced)
All  '      '            '         '     had clamp 3874661 that held both hoses together.
Only 67-68 BB had clip ( P/N not known) that was part of steering box asm.(Steve's picture) but in 69 the clip was a added to all V8's.
Another clip 3953258 was added in 69 to all V8's at the lower engine stand bolt. Could have been added because of the redesigned pump and hose lines.

Steve,
Can you tell me if the steering box clip has ribs on the outer surface? (the part that holds the hose)
I wish I had kept my original 68 RS/SS 396  but sold it to my brother in 75 and under age son took it out and destroyed it. Have been trying to get it back ever since but that is another story. Angry
Bob
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« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2012, 02:04:10 PM »

Bob

Quote
Can you tell me if the steering box clip has ribs on the outer surface? (the part that holds the hose)

Going by feel alone I didn't think it does.  Will you post a picture of the repo so I can see what you are referring to?

Quote
If you take the old high pressure hose and pull the fittings back you should be able to see the original finish.

Note the very end of the pipe.  This is the area where the fitting would normally be when the hose is installed.

Steve
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« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2012, 03:03:20 PM »

Quote
Can you tell me if the steering box clip has ribs on the outer surface? (the part that holds the hose)

Bob, reading you question again........it feels like there is a ridge on both sides of the U shaped part leaving a valley in the middle.  Is this what you are asking?  There are not multiple ridges running along the back side that I can feel.

Steve
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« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2012, 06:38:26 PM »

Steve,
Just got home from a little fishing trip in the RV and will get your picture tomorrow.  Grin
The way you are describing the clip sounds to be correct.
The pipe looks like it has a gold finish?Huh
Bob
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« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2012, 03:41:24 PM »

Quote
The pipe looks like it has a gold finish?

Yep, a small area right at the end.  Was this not what you were expecting (or hoping for)?

Steve
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