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Author Topic: Cowl Grill Seal  (Read 2499 times)
IZRSSS
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« on: March 16, 2012, 06:51:29 PM »

Can someone tell me who makes the best repro? I heard some good things about Metro Soft Seal...anyone else? Any recommendations appreciated!
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Mike S
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2012, 06:53:47 PM »

You have style Marty!
 That picture is hysterical  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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lakeholme
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 07:35:55 PM »

Check out Steele Rubber Products.
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Phillip
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2012, 07:44:38 PM »

Why not just get it from your local GM dealer?  Part number 3927464 is still available for around $10.00

 Wink

Paul
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2012, 08:17:39 PM »

You have style Marty!
You might be goin out on a limb with that one. Wink

Check out Steele Rubber Products.
Thanks Phillip!

Why not just get it from your local GM dealer?  Part number 3927464 is still available for around $10.00

 Wink

Paul
Because I heard from a reliable source they are the opposite of great. Do you have experience purchasing these for a '69? If so how did it fit?
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2012, 08:27:52 PM »

Why not just get it from your local GM dealer?  Part number 3927464 is still available for around $10.00

 Wink

Paul
Because I heard from a reliable source they are the opposite of great. Do you have experience purchasing these for a '69? If so how did it fit?

Nope, I have a '68 and my cowl seal is original with no issues!    Smiley

Paul
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L78 steve
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 08:40:22 PM »

The problem I have with the so called NOS is that they are hard as a rock and the rear of the hood sits high when closed.
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69 Z/28 Dover White X33,ZL2,PS,M20,Std.int.04C
67 SS/RS Mt. Green 1W,2LGSR,3SL,4K,5BY,07C
tmodel66
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 08:50:28 PM »

The problem I have with the so called NOS is that they are hard as a rock and the rear of the hood sits high when closed.

^^^  What he said to the 3rd power !!!
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Daniel  
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 11:48:06 PM »

If it is available from GM today, then it is NEW resplacement stock, but is not NOS.....
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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Charley
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« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2012, 12:11:51 AM »

The ones from Chevrolet seem fine to me. They aren't a licensed reproduction part. Real GM.  For 10.00 take a chance.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2012, 07:49:39 AM »

They aren't a licensed reproduction part. Real GM.  For 10.00 take a chance.

I agree 100%! And I had a feeling the only 10 bucks statement would eventually surface Wink. Here's the thing; I hate to get burned at any cost and what Steve and Daniel state says that I will. In fact, I think I have one of those rubber boards on the car right now, and any adjustments to the hood won't change a thing. Just trying to get it right this time.
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lakeholme
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2012, 08:02:54 AM »

Marty,
Here is the number for Steele. They are a family owned business and make their own parts. They take their measurements from originals. Their CEO is a straight up gentlman. Give them a Call and tell them your problem.

800-447-0849
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Phillip
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2012, 09:19:26 AM »

Not sure how you would get burned. If it doesn't work properly you return it to the dealer. I probably have a new one in the shop somewhere. I will try to look today to see if it is harder than orig ones.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2012, 09:36:42 AM »

Appreciate the info Phillip. I'll give them a holler.

Charlie - Thanks for examining the two. I'll be anxiously awaiting your response.

BTW...these GM dealers in NM don't take stuff back. Once they make a sell its a done deal. Then you factor in time, fuel, etc, etc, etc, & the 10.00 part runs 1.5 million. I charge 500k/hr Wink.
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Sauron327
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2012, 11:08:15 AM »

I've had dealer parts shipped from all over the country to me. I've got two cars here with old GM seals and the hoods fit fine. Often the hinges are not adusted correctly. There is a right and wrong method, and adjustment is often misunderstood. I also just changed a worn hinge that did not allow full rear closure with the seal installed. Replacing the hinge solved the problem.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2012, 01:18:45 PM »

I've had dealer parts shipped from all over the country to me. I've got two cars here with old GM seals and the hoods fit fine. Often the hinges are not adusted correctly. There is a right and wrong method, and adjustment is often misunderstood. I also just changed a worn hinge that did not allow full rear closure with the seal installed. Replacing the hinge solved the problem.

Just trying to eliminate all possible issues before going to the extent of replacing hinges. The hood fits fine w/o the seal so something tells me the seal that's on it is either incorrect or there are better ones out there. Thanks for your comment.   
 

 
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Charley
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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2012, 01:38:28 PM »

I just dug thru the shop and found one new in the box and compared it to others that I have on cars. I can't tell any difference in how hard it is and all the hoods close correctly. I took pics but the size allowed on this site is so tiny they won't post.
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2012, 02:10:07 PM »

I just dug thru the shop and found one new in the box and compared it to others that I have on cars. I can't tell any difference in how hard it is and all the hoods close correctly.

Like I said...

Why not just get it from your local GM dealer?  Part number 3927464 is still available for around $10.00

I'm curious, how much are the reproduction ones?

Paul
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2012, 02:37:52 PM »

Thanks for taking the time to do that Charley, I really appreciate it! Maybe part of the problem is figuring out what is NOS and what is a original GM replacement. Can you tell me if there are any differences between the two? Like I stated earlier, the information I got was from a reliable source and I have always trusted this guy. The issue he had was with a NOS replacement part.

BTW, I plan to get in touch with Steele to discuss this thing in detail. They are closed today so I'll give it another go next week.
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Charley
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2012, 02:58:51 PM »

I can't tell any difference from the old ones.
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2012, 08:01:25 PM »

Agree with Charlie & Scott! A year ago or so I carefully looked and compared two originals I have (off our 68 & 69) to a new one prior to ordering more and they sure seem to me to be the same design/material. And as one would imagine the new ones can be compressed much easier then our two older ones. Not sure what others might be comparing to but the cowl seal if compared to a door, roofrail, or trunk seal will seem much harder as it was (more dense). Thought maybe I was missing something as I do that sometimes  Grin, so I went out and compared again. I can pinch the new one so the hole in the middle is closed but not the old one and again the design seems to be dead nuts. Have no fear Marty and purchase that GM correct service replacement...........


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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
IZRSSS
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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2012, 08:30:39 PM »

Excellent pics Chick! Charley, Scott, Paul...sorry I doubted you all! I'll pay GM a visit, thanks!

Go UNM Lobo's!!! Its not often I get to say that so what the hey?!
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L78 steve
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2012, 12:06:10 PM »

I've had dealer parts shipped from all over the country to me. I've got two cars here with old GM seals and the hoods fit fine. Often the hinges are not adusted correctly. There is a right and wrong method, and adjustment is often misunderstood. I also just changed a worn hinge that did not allow full rear closure with the seal installed. Replacing the hinge solved the problem.

Hood closes and lines up fine without the seal. With it I have to push down the rear corners of the hood to get the proper alignment.
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69 Z/28 Dover White X33,ZL2,PS,M20,Std.int.04C
67 SS/RS Mt. Green 1W,2LGSR,3SL,4K,5BY,07C
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2012, 12:19:44 PM »

That sounds like it could be due to worn hinges, Steve...
Note:  your white Z28 must be fairly rare, as I can't recall seeing one in all my years of Z'ing...
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
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L78 steve
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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2012, 09:15:58 AM »

That sounds like it could be due to worn hinges, Steve...
Note:  your white Z28 must be fairly rare, as I can't recall seeing one in all my years of Z'ing...

They may be worn. Ive never had them off the car to test.
There was another White 69Z in town back in the 70's only his had the black vinyl top. And there's a white RS on the home page now. I remember seeing a color breakdown somewhere and the white was less than 10% of all the colors.
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69 Z/28 Dover White X33,ZL2,PS,M20,Std.int.04C
67 SS/RS Mt. Green 1W,2LGSR,3SL,4K,5BY,07C
Sauron327
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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2012, 05:59:27 AM »

I've had dealer parts shipped from all over the country to me. I've got two cars here with old GM seals and the hoods fit fine. Often the hinges are not adusted correctly. There is a right and wrong method, and adjustment is often misunderstood. I also just changed a worn hinge that did not allow full rear closure with the seal installed. Replacing the hinge solved the problem.

Hood closes and lines up fine without the seal. With it I have to push down the rear corners of the hood to get the proper alignment.
The hood I mentioned above closed fine until nearing the end of travel. You could see the geometry change compared to the other hinge as the hood closed. At which point the hood popped up on one side. It was maxed out in it's adjustment rotation. You have to rotate the hinge, simply loweriing the entire hinge will not bring the rear of the hood down fully. In most instances, you should be able to make the rear of the hood lower than the fenders using correct hinge adjustment procedure. If your hood is lining up perfectly without the seal, adjustment will allow you to bury the corners.

Another factor is the fender to cowl height relationship (not the cowl panel). If your fenders have few or no shims at the cowl, the cowl elevation is closer to the fender top. So the cowl seal contact point pushes the hood up at the corners. This adjustment choreography starts with door to quarter and rocker alignment, which may or may not be feasable. Hinges can be changed by oneself one at a time.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2012, 08:31:24 AM »

Scott - Sorry about the poor example below but does the pic illustrate the correct way to rotate the hinge. Also, are these two bolts the only way to lower the hood...short of messaging or beating the crap out of it?
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Sauron327
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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2012, 08:52:39 AM »

It shows rotation is both directions. Front of hinge goes up, rear goes down to lower hood back of hood. The arrows both pointing down illustrate how to not lower a hood. Some elogate the rear slot to gain further adjustment, but the integal washer can hit the hinge's lip. If you change to a smaller diameter washer, you deviate from fastener correctness. Lube helps. Looks like you have more adjustment on the rear yet. Loosen the rear bolt, push up on the hood, which rotates the hinge to max out adjustment and tighten the bolt.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2012, 09:07:54 AM »

Pardon the arrow directions but I didn't know how else to illustrate rotation (up & down). I'll play with it once I have a little more time and see what happens. I can't help but think about what Kurt said a while back...something about; have you ever seen line workers align a hood? Take a rubber mallet and start having some fun! Not his exact words, but I think you get a visual  Wink.

Thanks Scott!
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Sauron327
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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2012, 10:31:13 AM »

 Draw two arrows. Just make the front arrow point up. I'm sure readers understand anyway.
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2012, 08:39:57 PM »

Not sure Marty but believe you have the wrong bolts with captured washer in the hinge to fender location. Or at least they look too large..... Our AIM and also the 69 I believe call out the 9301 bolt which has a 1" captured washer. In that hinge to fender location the assembly line used the same type bolt but it only had a 3/4" captured washer and only used the 9301 in the hinge to hood location. I just went through all of this on our 68 and members were helping me understand. To date I'm not even sure what the GM part # would be for it.
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
IZRSSS
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« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2012, 08:50:44 PM »

Chick - I can't remember if we covered that bolt over at the fastener threads. Can you do me a favor and post a pic of it if you have one handy? At any rate, rotating the hinge like Scott mentioned did a world of good. Lets see if it holds once I install the new seal.

Another question; what should the reveal be all the way around...cowl area, fenders and front?

Thanks
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Sauron327
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« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2012, 09:02:09 PM »

I looked right through that Chick. Those bolts are wrong and will limit adjustment. Put the correct bolts in and you can bury the hood more. I'd just keep the gaps consistent. If you can't you have to start adjusting tin. What do you have now, 3/16"?
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2012, 09:17:48 PM »

Well...3/16" east & west & way off north & south. Too tight on the cowl end. My guess would be loosen the hood to hinge bolts & slide it north, correct?
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Sauron327
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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2012, 09:24:17 PM »

Forget about the cowl. The hood gets adjusted to the fenders and header first. Then adjust the cowl to the hood. If the side and header gaps are not consistent, the nose is racked and has to go left or right.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2012, 09:35:20 PM »

The nose is not racked. The hood is true to both fenders. My problem is a crater at header, 5/16". So, do I make this up by loosening the hinge to hood bolts and easing it forward?
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Sauron327
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« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2012, 09:37:58 PM »

That's good. Just bump the hood forward and you're golden. Then move the cowl panel forward if you have to.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2012, 09:42:52 PM »

Thanks!  Smiley
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2012, 07:34:44 PM »

Chick - I can't remember if we covered that bolt over at the fastener threads. Can you do me a favor and post a pic of it if you have one handy? At any rate, rotating the hinge like Scott mentioned did a world of good. Lets see if it holds once I install the new seal.

Another question; what should the reveal be all the way around...cowl area, fenders and front?

Thanks

No we did not Marty and I will take care of that in the near future. A friend is sending me two different origiinal bolt heads used in that hinge to fender locatiion.  AMK has screws with the captured 3/4" washer that could be used but they are pointed and longer which is not seen when installed anyway.
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
IZRSSS
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« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2012, 08:14:34 PM »

I'm in no hurry because the hood looks better now than it ever has thanks to the ABC's of hood installation via Scott. Hats off to him. I don't think there are too many guys out there who can guide someone through this complicated process without seeing it in person and nail it. Yup...I'd have to say he's done it a time or two.

Anyway, thanks to you for spotting the wrong fasteners! Once I have the correct ones in place I shouldn't ever have to mess with it again. Please post pics of the originals once you have them.
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2012, 10:17:37 PM »

Oh yea, Scott has helped many of us at sometime or another. Know he's helped me!
Again, will do on the hinge bolts.
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
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