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Author Topic: 67 CAMARO CALF TRIM TAG  (Read 5314 times)
CROSSRAMJL8
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« on: March 14, 2012, 05:12:11 AM »

I have a 67 camaro, LA car # matching. It is a SS but the trim tag dose not have the 4p? Is this normal?
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Mike S
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 06:17:25 AM »

 Is there anything in the 4 section? What is date period (month number / week letter) stamped on the tag? It would be better to post a close up of the tag for a better analysis.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2012, 12:53:58 AM »

HERE IS THE TRIM TAG
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2012, 12:59:17 AM »

I have another post about the rear endQS 0601g2 in the decoding section? i do not understand the 6 after paint code- car came with white vinyl top?
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Mark
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2012, 07:48:50 AM »

1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
37 = coupe body
7 = 1967 model year
L = Los Angeles, CA assembly plant (Van Nuys)
160666 = vehicle serial number sequence
 
Decode for body number: 020107
 
06B = Built the Second week of June.
67-12637 = Custom Interior Coupe.
LOS = Built in Van Nuys California.
797 = Custom Parchment/Black Bucket Seats.
Z = (A50) Strato Bucket Seats.
N-6 = Lower Color is Madeira Maroon and the Vinyl Top Color is White.
G625 = internal plant scheduling code.
Options:
1E = (A01) Tinted All Glass
1L = (A67) Fold-down rear seat
2E = (C60) Air Conditioner
2M = (M35) Powerglide Transmission
2G = (D55) Console front compartment
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Mark C.
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2012, 08:23:09 AM »

 So the engine code shows it's a 350/295 L48/automatic and the rear shows it's a 12 bolt non-posi.
What is interesting is the trim tag is missing the 4P code.
Here is a quote from the CRG indo: "The 4P code was not used at the start of production at either the Van Nuys plant or the Norwood plant.
Van Nuys started using the 4P code on the SS350 cars in September, but Norwood didn't start using the 4P code until October. Early Van Nuys SS350 cars and Norwood SS350 cars built before October will not have the 4P code to verify that they are SS's
. "
 This is looking like you car is an exception to this finding being yours is mid June 67 (Kurt?). Then again, with a VIN sequence of 666 anything is possible  Cheesy

The engine assembly is March 23rd. Early for a June build but it is possible it sat that long.  Both my 67 BB's sat about 2 months before being installed.
If you can dig into the block casting dates and numbers (intake, block, distributor and even heads if you want to pull the covers) that would present a clearer picture of what you have.
The June 1st rear date range is good. Is there a rear factory traction bar on this car?
Per the CRG end of month VIN report, the160666 falls in the June period, which is good.

As you can see, a picture can show us a lot!

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2012, 09:12:49 AM »

Thr rear end has the bracket for the bar but there has never been on installed. Also the place where the bracket would be in the floorbaord is missing. It was never installed, no holes nothing. I will get the dates on the other engine parts and post them with some pictures. Thanks
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Mark
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2012, 10:20:18 AM »

Thats because the 4P code was one of the instructions to add the plate on the floor for the traction bar.  Without those instructions to Fisher you don't get the plate added to the floor.  Think someone pulled the wrong engine on the line, and it got installed.
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Mark C.
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2012, 10:26:52 AM »

I thought the 4p stood for SS350. are you saying the 4p only meant it had a traction bar? Can you clarify this for me?
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2012, 10:30:12 AM »

more pics
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2012, 10:35:47 AM »

Traction bar
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2012, 11:20:38 AM »

The car looks to be original paint with all the SS emblems ,bumble stripe, ss hood w/original hood insulation and springs, SS gas cap.
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Mike S
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2012, 11:54:27 AM »

Hi Tony,
   The casting dates look tight so that's a good sign. What are the head cast dates? Did you check the cast numbers as well to see if they are correct? So far everything looks good but it's fun to document the numbers. Per a UOIT (a document that is rare to find), that area of the plate where the engine code would be stamped is listed as the engine reinforcement assembly.
So, if Mark is correct with the traction bar plate installed vs. not installed, then that would make sense why yours doesn't have the code stamped.

So far,  based on what you have presented, it looks like the car is authentic. I guess other cars built with that power train combination would have to be sampled to make that a definite conclusion.
Do you have other documentation such as a POP?

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2012, 02:40:38 PM »

I have the owner history. I am the 3rd owner. The original owner is dead. No paperwork. When I purchased the car I did not get the heads with it, all casting # are correct. There were several small peices missing ac brackets drive shaft etc. One other thing I thought was odd is the seat belts are the 68 & 69 design also look to be origianl to the car. Any idea where a build sheet might be in a LA car?. It still has the origianl carpet in it. Thanks for the information.

Tony
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Mike S
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2012, 03:45:00 PM »

The build sheet *may* be above the gas tank though I have never seen one myself. I found the UOIT on my LOS car taped to the tunnel on the drivers side under the carpet along with an electrical inspection tag.
I was told these are rare to find however so I got lucky to have one with my car and it's the only documentation I have to show it is what it is.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
MO
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2012, 04:34:51 PM »

"Thats because the 4P code was one of the instructions to add the plate on the floor for the traction bar.  Without those instructions to Fisher you don't get the plate added to the floor. "

The Chevrolet side of the plant would have built the rest of the car according to their paperwork.
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Mark
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2012, 06:55:18 PM »

Yes, the 4P code means "engine reinforcement" in other words the installation of the radius rod, it does not mean SS.  None of the Fisher codes on a trim tag directly identify a specific engine or drivetrain component, they only identify extra work that was needed to be performed on a "base" body to prepare it for the drivetrain and other options to be installed by GM on their side of the plant.  4P just mean't that Fisher needed to install the front bracket for the radius rod, that GM would install later.  Specific Engine combinations are infered by other options present on the car.  For example all 4P coded cars with a powerglide transmission are always SS's, but 4P cars with a 4 speed could have either an L48, or an L30 engine depending on which transmission, Muncie, or saginaw, was installed in the car.

Yes, chevrolet would build the car to their broadcast sheets which would not have included the radius rod because the car was not ordered as an SS, but it appears that someone on the engine assembly line got one or more engines out of order, and installed a 350/295HP engine into the car.  Mistakes happen, someone who ordered an SS that was being built that day, may have gotten a 327 installed in it.  Does the car have SS emblems on the fenders, gas cap, grille and steering wheel?  Doe it have dual exhaust, and the original brackets for a dual exhaust system?
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Mark C.
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Mike S
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2012, 07:12:44 PM »

............  None of the Fisher codes on a trim tag directly identify a specific engine or drivetrain component, they only identify extra work that was needed to be performed on a "base" body to prepare it for the drivetrain and other options to be installed by GM on their side of the plant.  4P just mean't that Fisher needed to install the front bracket for the radius rod, that GM would install later. 
.........

Hi Mark,

 Based on your comments above, why are there specific 4P thru4 L option codes listed that do define an engine option (section 4) and tranny option (section 2)?
As for the radius rod, I suspect that this may not be an engine error based on the CRG report for radius rods that states:
About one-third of L48/M35 cars have been noted with the round radius rod installed, while the remainder have the rod brackets but are absent the rod. No definite installation pattern has emerged

I have to say that this particular car research is interesting indeed.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2012, 07:36:03 PM »

Does anyone know of one of the cars referenced on the CRG web site stating some of  the powerglide SS cars came with out the traction bar?
I will take some pictures of the original exhaust hangers tomorrow
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MO
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2012, 08:07:47 PM »

Great insight on production Mark.

Besides checking for the normal SS pieces; is it original paint and are the fender and hood dates in line with the build date?
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Mark
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2012, 09:22:42 PM »

Fisher did not care one bit which engine went into a car, everything engine related was installed by Chevrolet.  Fisher added the parts some of the cars needed.  If a car needed a 3 speed, or 4 speed transmission, fisher had to cut the hole for it, if the car was an RS, fisher had to attach the right rear tail panel and punch the correct holes for wiring and trim.  As far as the 4'so, 4P literally means it got the engine reinforcement plate under the rear seat on the passenger side.  4L is engine reinforcement with Z28 stripes on the trunk panel, 4N, and 4K is an engine reinforcement and black tail panel.  There is lots of discussion on why the 4K exists, but there either was supposed to be some difference between the L78 and L35 that was never implemented, such as two traction bars, or there actually is some difference in the structure of the bodies, that no one has been able to find yet.  4F is the remote mirror, which required a different hole drilled in the door to pass the cable thru.  Nothing in the codes specify a specific engine.  All small blocks are the same size, as are the big blocks so there would be no physical difference needed to be incorporated into the body to support one engine over the other as far as fisher was concerned.

This car could also have a fisher coding error, instead of Chevy putting the wrong engine into a non SS, in that they did not install the SS components into a car ordered that way, and chevy added all of their SS related hardware, per the broadcast sheets.  Things did go awry every so often in the plant.
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Mark C.
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2012, 10:02:06 PM »

Great education here. As to the fenders and hood and original paint. All paint apears to be original with the exception of drivers door and left fender. Where would I look to find a date code on the fenders and hood and how is it read? I
Thanks
Tony
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Mike S
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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2012, 10:13:19 PM »

 OK...I forgot about the blackouts for the BB codes and the Z stripes. That makes sense now. So even though the codes themselves don't directly reference an engine combo but the work to prepare a body does indirectly reference what is to be placed in it when sent through the wall.
 I always thought the differences between the L35 and L78 was the the shape of the radius rod (round vs. square) but the rod evolution seems to have changed as the production run progressed and the floor plate was the same with either rod so that idea isn't valid. Otherwise I can't see any body preparation differences between the two BB's. I don't why Chevy didn't adapt the 2 radius rod setup like the Firebird.

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
Mike S
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« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2012, 10:18:31 PM »

Tony,

  The code is usually the week number of the year and they can be found along a flat edge somewhere. Sometimes they are lightly stamped so you have to look carefully. On my hood it was on the right side edge towards the front and the fenders along the top edge that is folded to form the water channel. The door date was behind the panel.
Here is a link to more info: http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#sheet

Mike
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67 LOS SS/RS L35 Hardtop - Original w/UOIT
67 NOR SS/RS L35 Convertible - Restored
KurtS
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« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2012, 11:56:29 PM »

Some of that reasoning for the different Fisher codes is at http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#67Codes.

I think the car was ordered as an SS. They don't make mistakes on what engine and axle they installed, but a tag error is plausible (though not common!). First time I've seen this on a 67....
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Kurt S
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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2012, 10:56:26 AM »

Since its an LOS car, the broadcast sheet for the GM equipment should still be sitting on top of the Fuel tank.  that will answer what the car was ordered as, at least as far a Chevy was concerned.  Maybe the person input the info into Fishers Scheduling system missed the L48 option, and the tag got printed without the code.  Was it possible to order a non posi 12 bolt, I know you could order posi in a non SS which would sometimes require a 12 bolt axle to be installed because a specific ratio was not made in a 10 bolt configuration, and all 67 3.07 ratio axles are 12 bolts whether they are posi or not, so the axle may not have been associated specifically with an SS, it could have been ordered that way.  Never know without seeing the broadcast sheet, and may never know at that point either.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2012, 07:27:21 PM »

Since its an LOS car, the broadcast sheet for the GM equipment should still be sitting on top of the Fuel tank.  that will answer what the car was ordered as, at least as far a Chevy was concerned. 

That was a 1969 thing, not likely to find the broadcast sheet on the tank of a 67.
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Russ
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2012, 02:34:52 AM »

It wasn't the 3.07, but the 2.73 ratio.  The PE axle was a 10 bolt posi, 3.08.
"The 2.73 ratio with positraction appears to have been only available with a 12-bolt axle in 1967, presumedly to reduce inventory."
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Kurt S
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2012, 06:31:51 AM »

?  This car has a QS axle, which is a 3.07 12 bolt non posi axle, all of the 3.07 Camaro axles in 67, and there are about 7 of them, were 12 bolts.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2012, 10:16:39 PM »

I got a chance today to take some pictures of the dual exhaust. I think the head pipes are original, but I will let the experts decide. Is there any one who has a picture of how the drivers side exhaust goes back by the frame rail and attaches?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 10:45:40 PM by CROSSRAMJL8 » Logged
CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2012, 10:19:49 PM »

Passenger side
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2012, 10:23:14 PM »

drivers side
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2012, 10:27:31 PM »

head pipes
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2012, 01:53:45 PM »

powerglide t7e 24n
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KurtS
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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2012, 02:33:08 AM »

That's dated correctly for the car. Looks like a good project for someone...
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Kurt S
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« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2012, 06:22:28 PM »

Just wondering if your car has power brakes; are the fronts disc or drum?
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CROSSRAMJL8
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« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2012, 11:57:52 PM »

THIS HAS DRUM BRAKES
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MO
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« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2012, 01:22:59 PM »

Searching the CRG site shows your QS axle to be 3.07 with standard brakes. I have seen printed elsewhere that QS axles are metallic brakes. Have you checked that?
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