Author Topic: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color  (Read 51449 times)

ko-lek-tor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
  • someday I'll get one finished
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2016, 12:43:26 AM »
BillOhio in another post regarding paint stripes fading into the cowl(http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=14083.0), which the topic went to underside overspray,  I had some pics of my Yellow car's, Nor3E, underside to share, but for reference sake because no one would do a search for this topic and expect to end up in a cowl paint page and not to hi-jack that thread. This must of been cleaning out the paint gun on the bottom side of the car day. Look past the rust and scale, it is an Ohio car that sat out a lot.
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

ko-lek-tor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
  • someday I'll get one finished
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2016, 12:44:48 AM »
more
Bentley to friends :1969 SS/RS 396 owned 79
1969 SS 350 (sold)
1969 D.H.COPO replica 4spd. owned since 85
1967 302 4 spd 5.13

crowe-t

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2019, 05:02:40 AM »
I found this picture in this attached link.  It shows light gray primer on the bottom with black in the transmission tunnel and under the rear axle and body overspray.

Is this correct for a '68 Camaro?

https://www.chevydiy.com/how-to-paint-your-chevy-camaro-restoration-guide/

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2019, 12:42:58 PM »
I can't respond re '68 Camaro underbody, but the photo and description is very similar to how my '69 (Sept '69 Norwood) Camaro is  on the underside.
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

crowe-t

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2019, 01:55:03 PM »
Do you know why there's black in the transmission tunnel?

169INDY

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2019, 02:45:09 PM »
Is this correct for a '68 Camaro?

LOS OR NOR built Car ??

JIM
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2019, 03:34:57 PM »
Do you know why there's black in the transmission tunnel?

Based on where the black was (uncovered by any other paint), the 'black' seems to be the anti-corrosion coating, applied to the entire car after thorough cleaning but before any primer or paint.  I believe it is the result of the 'phosphating' step as described in JohnZ's paint shop description (excerpted here and referenced below)
..   
"The Paint Shop is broken down into phosphate, prime, sealing, and color departments; the body was suspended from an overhead conveyor with hooks at the firewall and at the ends of the rear frame rails through the phosphate system, and was transferred to a steel carrying truck before the prime system that carried it through the rest of the Paint Shop and through the Trim Shop.
Phosphate System: The raw body shell passed through a seven-stage phosphate system, where it went through a series of enclosed high-pressure hot spray stages where it was washed to remove all the oils and debris from stamping, welding, brazing, soldering, and grinding operations, then the body was coated with a hot iron phosphate solution which "etched" the metal and provided "teeth" for paint adhesion. The final stage was a de-ionized hot water rinse and blow-off, followed by a drying oven on the way to the prime booth.

Prime System: In the first prime booth, the entire body, inside and out, was manually sprayed with primer, and confined areas subject to corrosion were given a second coat of heavier primer material; this prime coat was then baked at 390F for 30 minutes. In the second prime booth, the instrument panel and rear of the shelf area (and the upper door and quarter areas of 1967-68 models) were painted interior color, and another coat of air-dry flash primer was sprayed from the belt line down. The interior color areas were masked, and the entire outer body was sprayed with gray primer-surfacer and the body was baked again at 285F for 45 minutes. The cowl vent panel was hung in the side window opening on wire hooks all the way through the paint process."

John's full description is found here:     http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

crowe-t

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2019, 09:11:56 PM »
I can't respond re '68 Camaro underbody, but the photo and description is very similar to how my '69 (Sept '69 Norwood) Camaro is  on the underside.

Can you post some pictures of your '69 Camaros underside?

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2019, 03:40:44 AM »
My car has never been on a roll over rack, so I don't have a 'full floor photo'.  All my photos were taken laying on the floor under the jacked up car.   I've posted them before, so you might look for my previous posts on the subject... (I did look on my computer tonight, but with 1000's of photos I was unable to find them quickly and I don't have time to look further)...
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

crowe-t

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2019, 05:12:06 AM »
Does anyone have a picture or pictures of a '68 Camaro's undercarriage? 

Did a '68 Camaro's undercarriage have gray primer or just the black and body overspray?

Was the transmission tunnel of a '68 Camaro black or gray primer?

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2019, 10:54:25 PM »
My car has never been on a roll over rack, so I don't have a 'full floor photo'.  All my photos were taken laying on the floor under the jacked up car.   I've posted them before, so you might look for my previous posts on the subject... (I did look on my computer tonight, but with 1000's of photos I was unable to find them quickly and I don't have time to look further)...

OK ..  I spent a couple of hours today wading thru my old posts to find the ones where I posted photos of my floor...   See the thread at:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10627.msg81153#msg81153

09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

crowe-t

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2019, 12:33:37 AM »
My car has never been on a roll over rack, so I don't have a 'full floor photo'.  All my photos were taken laying on the floor under the jacked up car.   I've posted them before, so you might look for my previous posts on the subject... (I did look on my computer tonight, but with 1000's of photos I was unable to find them quickly and I don't have time to look further)...

OK ..  I spent a couple of hours today wading thru my old posts to find the ones where I posted photos of my floor...   See the thread at:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10627.msg81153#msg81153

Thanks for the link!

Does the black in the transmission tunnel go under the front floor pans like that picture I posted above with the yellow overspray?

69Z28-RS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5778
  • owner since 4-Apr-1976
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2019, 02:01:22 AM »
Did you read the link on the production process by John Hinckley? 

IMO, the black was EVERYWHERE since that was the Phosphating/rust prevention step, PRIOR to primer of any kind, and prior to paint of course.   First was the phosphating (rust prevention) - everywhere, Then the gray primer (heavier in some spots than others) and almost totally lacking in the rear portion of the driveshaft tunnel, heavy where the gas tank was going, and heavy gray primer in the transmission portion of the tunnel (and probably down from the firewall - prior to the body paint on the body and firewal... everything else on the floor was 'overspray from priming/painting the body, and the 'last overspray' under the floor would have been the black from the rocker blackout for those cars that got it...

I wasn't there when they painted these cars, but based on John's description of the overall process- and there's no one better to describe how the plant functioned on these cars! ... and what I observed when cleaning under my car, that is what I think they did.  Of course, there could also be variations from plant to plant (Norwood and LA), and possibly variations during the year and from car to car?

The overall 'thing' I learned was that there was NO attention for 'pretty' detail UNDER the car.  All the paint/coatings/overspray/etc UNDER the car came from 1) GM/Fisher's attempt to rustproof and seal the body shell, And 'residue' from the body paint process...  Buyers didn't inspect UNDER the car prior to purchase...
09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette, '60 Corvette, '72 Corvette
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

169INDY

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
    • View Profile
Re: GM Heritage Center Documentation / Underbody color
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2019, 02:04:18 AM »
Does anyone have a picture or pictures of a '68 Camaro's undercarriage? 

Did a '68 Camaro's undercarriage have gray primer or just the black and body overspray?

Was the transmission tunnel of a '68 Camaro black or gray primer?


Yes, I have some (Dec 1967) build 68 limited angle shots in my GILMORE Z build thread, Keep in Mind this is a LOS Z28 and has tons of body color around the underbody as described as a result of the Method Mark mentions.

JIM
Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
68 Z28 M21 LOS

 

anything