Author Topic: Possible Purchase (Read 22878 times)

69houdini · « **on:** January 03, 2012, 10:39:14 PM »

Looking for info on 1968 Rally Green Z28 vin 124378N376557. Anything will be helpful, want to be sure it is what it is. Thanks, JB

bertfam · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2012, 11:58:57 PM »

Nothing in the database on that one.

Sorry.

Ed

69houdini · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2012, 12:18:42 AM »

Thanks Ed, I'll get some numbers and pics and hopefully you guys can help me out with anything suspicious looking.

KurtS · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2012, 09:49:42 PM »

I don't have any info about the car. And no pics of any #'s in the ad.
http://www.grautogallery.com/details.php?id=563&p=50&page=1&srt=added%20DESC

x66 714 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:03:12 PM »

At a quick look this is what I see
dealer spoiler or painted wrong
no rear guards
wrong air cleaner
wrong fender emblems for an early feb 68
HEI (possible firewall damage)
stripes wrong
no grill emblem
Camaro emblem on driver's fender installed by a blind person:)
No docs shown..only talked about....Joe

69houdini · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:34:01 PM »

Here are some pics

69houdini · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:36:23 PM »

2nd pic

69houdini · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:37:02 PM »

3rd pic

69houdini · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:37:59 PM »

4th pic

69houdini · « **Reply #9 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:38:38 PM »

Vin #

69houdini · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:39:16 PM »

69houdini · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:39:49 PM »

Tranny

IZRSSS · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:43:03 PM »

Maybe its just me, but I would begin by cleaning the engine pad down to the metal. The VIN looks suspicious...

dutch · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2012, 05:00:01 AM »

Interesting in that this discussed engine stamping has the exact assembly date as 2 other similar and considered early-build '68 models that I have seen in past discussions... could they have 'batch assembled' Z 2/8 engines at a given point in late Dec '67 for some reason such as internal parts availability or

.
The other 2 that I mention are somewhat close in vin sequence to this one in relation to their build dates, so I would in an unofficial and unexpert sense say it probably has legit stampings..
True it could use some pad cleaning to determine if correct marks are apparent - but even without that done, everything else looks OK to me relative to what I know and have seen with other Z'ed blocks.
I and most other Z2/8 fans I'm sure, would also love to see the date and code stamping on that distributor sitting in the box to see if it carries the same left over '67 Z'ed numbers as some others in this build sequence/timeframe have been know to be born with!
I would love to hear more opinions...
Randy

KurtS · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2012, 07:49:34 AM »

Engine pad and trans stamping look good.

dutch · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2012, 04:41:45 AM »

Kurt...

What's your opinion of my theory that there could have been some form of batch assembly of similar engines early in the '68 model year not unlike the process distributors went through?
Is what I see here just a huge coincidence in that the assembly dating on this block is exactly the same as a few other Z2/8 cars I've seen built roughly in the same timeframe and if not is there more to this story?

Thanks - Randy

KurtS · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2012, 08:16:51 PM »

All components were built in batches.
The component plants (engine, alt, dist, you name it) would switch over to a given part # and produce X number per the production schedule. All part #'s had an associated BOM (bill of materials) that stated what subcomponents need to be in the assembly and the changeover would would make sure these subcomponents were used in the build and the proper part # stamped on the part.

dutch · « **Reply #17 on:** January 07, 2012, 10:10:14 PM »

Thanks Kurt, I didn't realize that - interesting - I knew about the alternators and distributors but didn't realize it applied further..
Guess it makes sense considering what it would take to prepare for one specific engine assembly routine and its necessary parts, verses another - like a grouping of 327 / 215 hp 2 barrel engines to the next which could be 327 / 275 4 barrel variants with different pistons, intake, cam, and carb etc..
Back then it must have been a factory logistical nightmare with so many more options available to customers with often only subtle differences between them, compared to today's limited powertrain choices where everything seems to be lumped into 1 or 2 option packages with almost no variablity...
No wonder often we often hear about mismatched engine components or options from back then.

JohnZ · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2012, 11:24:39 PM »

Quote from: dutch on January 07, 2012, 10:10:14 PM

Guess it makes sense considering what it would take to prepare for one specific engine assembly routine and its necessary parts, verses another - like a grouping of 327 / 215 hp 2 barrel engines to the next which could be 327 / 275 4 barrel variants with different pistons, intake, cam, and carb etc..

The engine plants each built 300 engines per hour, 16-20 hours per day, and on any given day it wasn't unusual for them to build 20-40 different suffix codes, as they served both passenger car and truck plants. Procurement and Production Control at that volume and with that kind of constantly-changing variety and complexity WAS a miracle.

dutch · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2012, 12:14:23 AM »

Truly done on an amazing scale - Thanks John for the info..

Randy

KurtS · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2012, 05:30:56 PM »

The plant also had to deal with the oddball low-volume jobs too, where they might only run a few - L89's and export engines come to mind.

69houdini · « **Reply #21 on:** January 10, 2012, 07:37:36 PM »

Thanks for your opinions, I'm going forward with it, is there any other issues or concerns i might be overlooking?

69houdini · « **Reply #22 on:** January 11, 2012, 10:01:22 PM »

Hi X66 714 your reply is appreciated and noted, the '68 01C build fender emblem s/b 302 and not Z28. The Z28 fender emblem came out in March '69 correct? Also this is a J2 paint code which is Rallye Green with Black Vinyl Top. Is there any way I can tell what color the stripes should be? There is a copy of the POP imprint. Is there a specific code for white or black stripes?

bertfam · « **Reply #23 on:** January 11, 2012, 10:45:46 PM »

Quote

The Z28 fender emblem came out in March '69 correct?

I think you probably meant March of 1968, and you are correct. And Rally Green would have come with white stripes.

JB, would it be possible to get a scan of your POP for out database? My email address is in my signature to the left.

Thanks
Ed

69houdini · « **Reply #24 on:** January 11, 2012, 11:59:19 PM »

Ed, yes I will scan it and get it to you in a couple weeks and yes I meant '68 March. Thanks, JB

vtfb68 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:08:18 AM »

JB,
Good luck on the purchase, Hope to see it at the shows in a few months. I know a guy in Lawndale that picks and polishes trim if needed for your wheel moulding.
Victor

69houdini · « **Reply #26 on:** January 12, 2012, 03:27:46 AM »

Thanks Victor, we'll talk later so I can get the info.

x66 714 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 12, 2012, 01:20:15 PM »

In refference to the z/28 emblems, I have strong evidence that L.A. cars were changed 5th week of February. So far I have one car that left with 302 emblems & 3 that left with z/28 emblems.....all 02E L.A........Joe

fireZ · « **Reply #28 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:07:27 PM »

My 02E LA car has 302 emblems on it. Original owner said he always thought about putting the Z28 ones on but never did.

x66 714 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 12, 2012, 02:48:25 PM »

Yep, Your is the one with 302 emblems. I know of three more 02E cars that have z/28 emblems originally. Their VINs are newer than yours which would make sense. LA must've made the change during the last 4 days of the month (leap year)

69houdini · « **Reply #30 on:** January 12, 2012, 06:24:59 PM »

This is the glove box sticker off this 68 Z28.
Shouldn't this be a 15 inch tire size?
Is this a red flag?
Let me know.
Thanks,
JB

1968RSZ28 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 12, 2012, 09:26:36 PM »

Quote from: 69houdini on January 12, 2012, 06:24:59 PM

This is the glove box sticker off this 68 Z28.
Shouldn't this be a 15 inch tire size?
Is this a red flag?
Let me know.
Thanks,
JB

Yup, should be 15"! Proceed with caution!

Paul
Lamanai Outpost, Belize

Gramps69Z · « **Reply #32 on:** January 12, 2012, 09:28:56 PM »

You may want to look through this: http://www.camaros.org/diffs68.shtml

PURESS · « **Reply #33 on:** January 12, 2012, 09:33:30 PM »

Use the Link above and go to Footnotes on the bottom....No. 10.....Tire size noted on glovebox (inside glovebox door) sticker

IZRSSS · « **Reply #34 on:** January 12, 2012, 09:36:58 PM »

Sure wish you'd take my advise and get Jerry involved with this thing...it could save you some big time head aches! Or at the very least, use his book "The Definitive 1967 - 1968 Camaro Z/28 Fact Book".

1968RSZ28 · « **Reply #35 on:** January 12, 2012, 09:43:01 PM »

JB,

The link Kurt posted in reply #3 shows a box of parts in the last photo. Find out the what the stamped part number and date code on the distributor is.

Paul
Lamanai Outpost, Belize

69houdini · « **Reply #36 on:** January 12, 2012, 10:23:57 PM »

Hi Guys, Marty I have the book, I'm doing my homework on this side and getting help on this site by posting pics and getting feedback. The cars in Grand Rapids and I'm in Rendondo Beach L.A.
Paul and Dutch, I am in the process of getting the distributor#s and dates as well as wheel K codes, alternator, radiator, clutchfan info. Does anyone think that the plant screwed up and put an SS decal by mistake, is there anyone out there with the same problem?

Gramps69Z · « **Reply #37 on:** January 12, 2012, 11:22:25 PM »

Quote from: 69houdini on January 12, 2012, 10:23:57 PM

Does anyone think that the plant screwed up and put an SS decal by mistake, is there anyone out there with the same problem?

Better chance the door got changed out at some time.

Mike S · « **Reply #38 on:** January 12, 2012, 11:23:31 PM »

Maybe the glove box door was changed in the past?
I say this because the convertible I restored in the mid 80's had a huge dent in the glove box door so I replaced it with one from a 350 Camaro
at a junk yard (same interior color). I knew the tire sticker was wrong for a 396 but I used it anyway until recently when a 396 sticker was made.

Mike

69houdini · « **Reply #39 on:** January 13, 2012, 04:43:49 PM »

I asked the dealer for more pics and the distributor #s and he sent me the pics and found out that someone just stole the distributor out of the box that was pictured in the ad. They are looking into it. The rest of the pics add up with the 3 core radiator, 5 blade clutchfan, deep groove pulleys {cannot tell on alternator} looks like it could have been replaced over time, 3 out of the 4 15x6 wheels have the correct codes on them. He has no idea about the tire pressure decal, the glove box may have been replaced. Please post some opinions and ideas, I like the car it seems to be the real deal and all the #s on the vin and body and drivetrain look and date correctly. If I'm going to pull the trigger it will be today so let me hear from you. Thanks, JB

dutch · « **Reply #40 on:** January 13, 2012, 05:11:47 PM »

I wonder what the chances were that the distributor was a '2**'

Someone probably was following this thread (maybe even the dealer of the car) and did some research as to what it's worth might be - from a few comments here.
If that is the case I feel badly about even mentioning it in the first place...
If it was a late '67 or early '68 piece and was stamped and dated correctly, it wouldn't have helped in documenting the car as real - but certainly would have gone quite a way to help make the car a much better deal!

Randy

shupee · « **Reply #41 on:** January 13, 2012, 08:23:19 PM »

I would ask the "dealer" where the speedo cable comes through the firewall. Either under the booster or under the other location. Thanks

Mike S · « **Reply #42 on:** January 13, 2012, 09:44:58 PM »

Do the pictures show the tank codes on each side of the radiator?
Not that it may make a difference but every little piece of info contributes to the overall picture.

Mike

69houdini · « **Reply #43 on:** January 13, 2012, 10:10:44 PM »

Shupee, The Dealer just responded, the speedo cable comes out under the wiper motor. I believe this is correct for a Muncie. Please confirm, Thanks, John

1968RSZ28 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 13, 2012, 10:35:39 PM »

Quote from: 69houdini on January 13, 2012, 10:10:44 PM

The Dealer just responded, the speedo cable comes out under the wiper motor. I believe this is correct for a Muncie. Please confirm, Thanks, John

See "Speedometer Cable Firewall Penetration" at the following link... http://www.camaros.org/diffs68.shtml

Paul
Mask Temple, Lamanai, Belize

69houdini · « **Reply #45 on:** January 13, 2012, 11:44:38 PM »

Paul, to the right of the steering column looks correct.

1968RSZ28 · « **Reply #46 on:** January 13, 2012, 11:54:09 PM »

Quote from: 69houdini on January 13, 2012, 11:44:38 PM

Paul, to the right of the steering column looks correct.

Correct, just be aware it doesn't prove the car is a Z/28, just that it came with a Muncie transmission.

Paul
High Temple, Lamanai, Belize

69houdini · « **Reply #47 on:** January 14, 2012, 12:00:21 AM »

Yes you are correct, everything that I checked and posted points to the real deal except for one glovebox sticker. All #s and date codes coincide, maybe I'll ask Tebow for guidance.

Gramps69Z · « **Reply #48 on:** January 14, 2012, 02:01:36 AM »

Quote from: 69houdini on January 14, 2012, 12:00:21 AM

Yes you are correct, everything that I checked and posted points to the real deal except for one glovebox sticker. All #s and date codes coincide, maybe I'll ask Tebow for guidance.

I think we'll know if Tebow's for real after tomorrows game.

68camaroz28 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 14, 2012, 11:57:25 AM »

Hi John and good luck with the purchase if not solidified yet. Read your post in the beginning but then did not follow up until now and was pleasantly surprised to see our 01B NOR 68Z has another sibling as our engine was built/born the same day. I have a restoration thread going that you might find interesting concerning our 68Z. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584

69houdini · « **Reply #50 on:** January 14, 2012, 04:01:44 PM »

Cool thread, I have a butternut '69 convertible SS black top that I just adore. Since you are kinda my big bro { 01B - 01C } after seeing this thread what is your opinion about the tire pressure sticker? and the chances of this being a real Z28?

68camaroz28 · « **Reply #51 on:** January 14, 2012, 11:47:48 PM »

Quote from: 69houdini on January 14, 2012, 04:01:44 PM

Cool thread, I have a butternut '69 convertible SS black top that I just adore. Since you are kinda my big bro { 01B - 01C } after seeing this thread what is your opinion about the tire pressure sticker? and the chances of this being a real Z28?

Well you sure have a lot of info that supports it is a Z/28 but as others have mentioned its always wise to proceed with caution. Concerning the sticker, I'm no expert but over the years we have all seen some weird things like a AM radio mast on a AM-FM radio equip. car or std. seat belts in a custom int. equip. car or a factory grind out and restamp of a pad so anything is possible and it might be just a simple defect that someone placed the wrong sticker or glove box door on. Bottom line, you will probably never know.

69houdini · « **Reply #52 on:** January 15, 2012, 12:29:41 AM »

The dealer told me there is an imprint of the POP is available with this car. Is there anywhere on that imprint any code or numbers that would say this is a Z28 or has something only a Z28 would have. I'm not familiar with POPs enough to know how to break the options down or even if there are any #s that would verify this.

bertfam · « **Reply #53 on:** January 15, 2012, 01:08:50 AM »

Quote

Is there anywhere on that imprint any code or numbers that would say this is a Z28 or has something only a Z28 would have.

Yes, but post a picture. POP's are now being faked just as much as everything else.

Ed

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Author Topic: Possible Purchase (Read 22878 times)

IZRSSS

IZRSSS