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Author Topic: ? 69 Pace Car on EBay?  (Read 2469 times)
MyRed67
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« on: November 26, 2011, 03:18:47 PM »

 This 69 Pace Car listed on EBay, what do you guys think?  It is possible?  Is it true that the LA "Pacers" didn't have the Z11 on the Cowl Tag?
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200680006065#ht_37162wt_1131
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1967 Camaro  LOS  11A
Original Engine   Z - Tribute
Mike C.    NW - Illinois
Mark
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2011, 03:38:58 PM »

No Z11 code on any LA built Pace Cars, also no Z10s ever built there, and no X codes on any LA built car.  Any white convertible with white top, and orange houndstooth interior built at LA is a pacecar.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11
MyRed67
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2011, 07:43:28 PM »

So, it looks to be original as claimed?   Would the J480 in the lower right corner be interplant tracking #?  J 10 th. day, 480 th. car?
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1967 Camaro  LOS  11A
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Mike C.    NW - Illinois
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2011, 08:51:34 PM »

So, it looks to be original as claimed?   Would the J480 in the lower right corner be interplant tracking #?  J 10 th. day, 480 th. car?

That's the Fisher Body body scheduling code.  From CRG...

"The LOS (Los Angeles/Van Nuys) body scheduling code is a letter followed by one to three digits, e.g., F103. Based on data analysis only (there is no GM documentation yet available that describes this code) - but with consistent application to thousands of datapoints - CRG believes the code was used by LOS Fisher Body (and other plants that built multiple carlines) to aid in scheduling the body build order.
 
The letter indicates the approximate production day of the month for the start of the assembly of each vehicle body. It began with letter "A" on the first day of the month of the Fisher production calendar, incremented at the start of each additional production day to the next alphabetic letter, and was reset to letter "A" at the start of the next production month. (Note that the Fisher production calendar is known to differ slightly from the calendar month, and we also do not yet know exactly how the Fisher production calendar related to the Chevrolet monthly production reporting calendar.)
 
The one-to-three digit sequence number that follows the letter was reset to 1 at the start of each production day and was incremented serially with each body built by the factory as the day progressed. Data analysis indicates that the sequence number at the LOS plant was assigned regardless of model or body type. By this we mean that Camaros and full-size passenger cars both incremented the same sequence counter. The unit counter was reset to 1 the next day as the day-of-the-month code letter incremented to the next letter. In the example, F103 would indicate the sixth day of production for a given month and the 103rd body started on that sixth day of production.
"

Paul
 
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MyRed67
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 12:27:23 AM »

 Yeah, that's what I meant, I guess it might be called something different in different circles.
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1967 Camaro  LOS  11A
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Mike C.    NW - Illinois
Charley
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2011, 12:41:04 AM »

I'm impressed with the guys great pictures and description of the car. I have owned at least one LA Pace Car that had Z11 on the build sheet. Should have made copies.
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Oaklyss
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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2011, 12:03:17 PM »

Anyone notice the steering wheel? wonder if its original? He should check on top of the gas tank for the Broadcast Copy. If the tank was never removed, It will be there.
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69 RSSS ZL-2 4 speed, mint unrestored 04A LA built-SOLD
Now-1968 GTCS mint unrestored original paint
IZRSSS
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2011, 01:04:24 PM »

Anyone notice the steering wheel? wonder if its original?

It looks like the same Steering Wheel option in this report (April 69 "Cushioned Rim", steering wheel). Scroll down just a bit and you'll see it; http://www.camaros.org/swheel.shtml#69

Here is a quote from the report which states how rare these wheels are;
The RPO NK1 "Cushioned Rim" steering wheel was introduced in the April 1969 dealer information (right), however the factory production totals indicate that no 1969 Camaro came equipped with this wheel. Recently, a car with window sticker documentation has been discovered that has NK1 and there is also a Canadian documented car with NK1.
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william
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2011, 01:55:29 PM »

As the hub doesn't match the wheel is probably not OE.

The owner should end the auction now and take the current bid. Plenty of money for this very rough car.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2011, 02:42:56 PM »

Bill - What are the tall tale signs this wheel isn't original? I looked at both the hub in Ed's report and the one on eBay. It looks like the center spoke of the eBay wheel will fit in the notch/cut-out of the hub shown in Ed's report?

Thanks!
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william
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2011, 02:47:15 PM »

The hub would have been painted black to match the column. Looks NOS or repro to me.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 02:50:16 PM »

Thanks again!
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jl8dale
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2011, 05:44:32 PM »

Restoring this car will be expensive and when done the new owner will have a 350 pace car with no docs and a non original motor.

Probably worth somewhere in the 30's. At 12k, he should take that and run with it.

No bargain here.
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1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
169INDY
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« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2011, 12:49:25 AM »

 Cheesy
Funny, My car is L529677 also a LOS 04C build, Very close to the one for sale. <529407>

For comp,,,,, My tag = M044 His = J480

The Chassis Broadcast Copy (Mine) does in fact Have Z11,,,,,,"5Z11AA", "5Z87KM", "5Z720BA" typed in below all the data blocks.

Very quickly someone will become upsidedown on this car.

Jim
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Jim
68 SS/RS L35 Th-400 LOS
69 Pace Car L48 Th-350 LOS
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2011, 08:41:44 AM »

His write up sounds like he knows a good lawyer.
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69 Z28 RS Scuncio Hi Performance
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jl8dale
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« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 09:36:00 AM »

Here is a comparison of the Ebay Pace car rear axle stamp and mine on my LA Pacer.

They look pretty identical. My pic is the second one.

My car is a 04B and his is a 04C build date but they are very close in unit production numbers.
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1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
jl8dale
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« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2011, 09:37:12 AM »

Ebay Pace Car rear axle pic.
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1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
69pace
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« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2011, 04:31:24 PM »

I thought all 69 SS including Z11's had 12 bolt posi?
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
jl8dale
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« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2011, 04:54:30 PM »

12 Bolts but they don't have to be posi's.
I have (1) Pace Car now with the build sheet (BL rear) and just sold one a few months ago with a Protecto Plate and a (BL rear.)
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1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
KurtS
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« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2011, 07:51:30 PM »

I thought all 69 SS including Z11's had 12 bolt posi?
Nope. True in 67 and 68, but in 69, SS350 cars with powerglides had 10 bolts. Pretty uncommon beast, but they exist.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2011, 12:35:45 AM »

Okay so now I'm more confused. I was asking if there were 12 bolt rears on 69 z-11's that are not posi units? Or were all 12 rears positraction ?
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
KurtS
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« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2011, 03:11:14 AM »

Sorry.
So there's two parts - did all SS's have 12 bolts - no.
Did all SS's (or Z11's) have posi's - no. Posi was only required for 4.10 or deeper gears.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2011, 11:59:03 AM »

Did all SS's (or Z11's) have posi's - no. Posi was only required for 4.10 or deeper gears.
William pointed out that in 69, posi was required for 3.73 or 4.10 (Z was allowed a 3.73 open). I dug and it was only 67-68 that required posi with 4.10.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2011, 04:25:32 PM »

My car is L529677 also a LOS 04C build, Very close to the one for sale. <529407>

For comp,,,,, My tag = M044 His = J480

The Chassis Broadcast Copy (Mine) does in fact Have Z11,,,,,,"5Z11AA", "5Z87KM", "5Z720BA" typed in below all the data blocks.

Jim

Thanx for sharing this info.

:-)
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VN Pacecar 396 M20 #'s

X44, CE-427, M20, C BE, 712 50 50
69pace
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« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2011, 10:20:04 PM »

Sorry.
So there's two parts - did all SS's have 12 bolts - no.
Did all SS's (or Z11's) have posi's - no. Posi was only required for 4.10 or deeper gears.

Okay so I guess I do really need to get underneath and try to read the stamping on the axle to know for sure if I have a posi or not. Thanks Kurt for the information.
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1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
sdkar
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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2011, 04:15:23 AM »

Kurt, 

I have a Z11 with powerglide and 10-bolt (PG) rear axle.  I believe you have some documented SS with powerglide, but as far as Z11, have you had any documented powerglide cars besides mine?

Steve
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KurtS
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« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2011, 07:53:06 PM »

Steve,
Only one other Z11 car with a powerglide. And one Z10 car.
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Kurt S
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