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Author Topic: 69 L48/LM1 Automatic "Keep Your GM Car..." Decal Info Wanted  (Read 10664 times)
69redrsss
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« on: November 18, 2011, 12:50:50 AM »

I'd appreciate anyone who has an original 1969 L48 (or LM1) automatic air cleaner base decal with the part number 6484584 on it replying to this posting.  I'm looking for a picture, dimensions, & the two letter code (C_).  I'm hoping to get someone to reproduce this decal and will provide contact info to get your own on this same posting.  At this time I am not aware of anyone reproducing a correct part number decal.  There are several suppliers suggesting they are but the part numbers do not match either the Factory AIM or Camaro Master Parts Catalogues I have or have seen printed between 1969 & 1971.  There is a alternate part number listed for 1969 with a larger 2" heat stove pipe which was added after the July 1969 catalogue printing (late extended production run change?) which is not what I am looking for.  I am also not interested in the decal for manual transmissions which is available.
Thanks!
Les
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Les
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2011, 01:36:04 AM »

Les,

I'm not sure if this is the decal your looking for, but check out the photos in this recent Ebay listing...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130598896460?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Paul
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srode
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2011, 04:42:56 AM »

What page in the AIM are you seeing that part number? 
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Steve - 02D Z11 and a Plain Jane hardtop
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2011, 10:00:58 AM »

What page in the AIM are you seeing that part number? 

It's not in the A.I.M. - the sticker was part of the air cleaner assembly, installed at AC Spark Plug.
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2011, 03:05:24 PM »

I don't have AIM with me but under the TH350 M35 section the air cleaner part number is 6484584. Yes - there is no sticker shown except the one on the lid in the AIM. However, the air cleaner part number and the part number on the sticker have been the same on other unmolested original decals I have seen. And the two letter code appears to match the broadcast sheets I have seen.  I'm thinking that the two letter code is a factory parts bin code but that's a guess. This makes sense to me but maybe I don't understand the whole story.

I've seen the air cleaner referenced in the ebay ad and it may be from an SS350 but by the part number 6485887 it would not appear to from an automatic '69 Camaro.
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Les
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 06:02:23 PM »

For what it's worth, HBC has that CR decal listed as applying to all 350/300hp engines, not just automatic. 

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Steve - 02D Z11 and a Plain Jane hardtop
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 09:59:16 PM »

Partially correct descriptions (even if done in good faith) is part of the challenge of restoring a car correctly I am discovering.  Here's the page from the AIM.
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Les
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 11:32:22 PM »

Yes, the two-letter code is the broadcast code.
Cowl hood or not? Assuming not, CO is the sticker you want. I have a bad pic of an original sticker.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2011, 07:20:18 AM »

There's a CO decal at HBC.  They have it shown for a 68 350/295hp, doesn't look like the same part number from what I can see in their picture though.  It is black and gold like the one in Kurt's picture.
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Steve - 02D Z11 and a Plain Jane hardtop
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2011, 10:12:27 AM »

Good spot Steve!
 
I consider myself descent w/PC searches but this thing has been difficult to nail down. Part of the confusion might be the change from 295 to 300hp in '69 for the L48. Although this change had more to do with marketing it might have confused the issue as it relates to this sticker for early built 69's. What does the Camaro Master Parts Catalog say about hp as it relates to this 6484584 sticker? As was mentioned by Steve, HBC has their CO sticker listed for a '68 @ 295hp. And...Even though Kurt's pic (I'll have to agree w/you Kurt...man that pic sucks Grin) is almost impossible to make out, there are some similarities between the two in layout and print. Too bad the part #'s can't be made out on either one but all indications is that; the sticker you are looking for was intended for the '68 model year.
 
Also, KIM the LM1 was/is rated at 255hp so I don't think it would apply to this particular sticker.

http://www.heartbeatcitycamaro.com/store/product/17074/Camaro-Air-cleaner-decal-350-295-hp-68/
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2011, 10:42:30 AM »

LM1 and L48 used the same air cleaner.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2011, 10:51:36 AM »

Yes, but did the 255, 295 & 300hp cars all use the same air cleaner side sticker? I guess my point is...jobbers appear to sell these stickers based on HP.
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srode
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2011, 11:09:48 AM »

Hard to imagine if the air cleaner assembly came from AC and the same ones were used on LM1 and LM48s there would be a different decal on them based on the engine - it wouldn't seem to serve any pupose would it?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 12:12:38 PM by srode » Logged

Steve - 02D Z11 and a Plain Jane hardtop
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 11:37:51 AM »

You might be on to something. But why the change in early and late '69 stickers? Remember, there is the one Paul posted a link of. That sticker certainly looks original and is also for later in the '69 model year.

Maybe someone at HBC knows. After all, they are the ones advertising their sticker for a 295hp '68.

BTW, what's a LM58  Huh   
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srode
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2011, 12:12:00 PM »


BTW, what's a LM58  Huh   
It's a typo  Smiley   Maybe they were running out inventory in the earlier months?
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Steve - 02D Z11 and a Plain Jane hardtop
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2011, 12:40:33 PM »

http://www.angelfire.com/rock/69ss/frame.html

I didn't look.  See if this guy has any or knows?
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2011, 01:49:44 PM »

I was looking into this issue earlier and found someone with 2 original Chevelle L48s and, although the air cleaner looks identical (except for the lid is black), the part number CM / 6484582 is not in the Camaro parts books.  So the part numbers appear to be model and/or factory specific.  This agrees with some of the parts catalogue info I've also stumbled upon. Therefore I'm trying to concentrate on Camaros only.

The attached TC post for a 69 RS shows the black 6484584 decal like the one shown.  I'm assuming it was also from an L48 as his lid is chrome. I've yet to hear what the build date of his car is but is was a powerglide which might suggest an earlier build than my August 69 car.
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1627945

I will try to downsize the copies of the parts catalogues I have so I can post it for everyone's reference.
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Les
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« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 01:18:15 AM »

Not great quality but here are the catalogue pages
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Les
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« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2011, 09:57:28 PM »

A summary of the previous attachements.  I can't find the manual transmission air cleaner part number in the AIM.  If others have found it please let me know where.

1969 350 L48 Air Cleaners               
                    AIM UPC    AIM P/N   AIM Comment                                                                Jul 69 Cat   Dec 72 Cat
Non-Cowl Induction               
Manual          L48 / A2      Note 1                                                                                        6484583     6484583
Auto              M35/A22  6484584   RPO L48 & LM1                                                               6484584     6484584 Note 2
                    M38/A2        "          6M-3 Air Cleaner & Silencer - Assembles the same as M35   Note 3       Note 3
Cowl Induction               
Manual          ZL2/A3     6485233   RPO L48                                                                         6485233    6485233
Automatic      ZL2/A3     6485234   RPO L48 with RPO M35 or M38                                         6485234    6485234

Notes               
1. AIM refers to L65 but L65 is only a 350 2BBL
2. Also 6485252 with 2" vs 1-1/2" heat stove in 1972 catalogue            
3. AIM & Camaro Master Parts Catalogue do not differentiate between PG & TH350 350 4BBL automatics               
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Les
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« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2011, 09:05:55 PM »

The two letters are C O and the part# is 6484584 for L48 auto.
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« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2011, 11:03:13 PM »

Thanks Steve. You may be correct but without a good picture of one it's tough to convince a reputable reproduction company to make one up.  Have you got one & a picture (with dimensions) you can send me?  The two letter code should be on your broadcast sheet if you have it.
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Les
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« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2011, 11:50:43 PM »

Thanks Steve. You may be correct but without a good picture of one it's tough to convince a reputable reproduction company to make one up.  Have you got one & a picture (with dimensions) you can send me?  The two letter code should be on your broadcast sheet if you have it.

See picture below.The car is stored but I maybe stopping by to work on another car.
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« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2011, 12:25:23 AM »

Excellent Steve!!!  When you get a moment could you get a hieght & width measurement for me? That would be great.  I assume that it is a pretty standard decal but it's one thing Osborn wanted to know before they would even consider reproducing.  I appreciate that there is a little wear on the decal but does it look layout & color wise the same as the reproduction I showed earlier for a L48 Chevelle?
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Les
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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2011, 03:37:06 AM »

anyone got an idea what the Letter code would be for a L 48 auto with ZL 2 cowl induction? we have the part number as posted by Les.......6485234

i was previously under the impression that the proper decal for any ZL 2 cowl induction car would be a DG 6485235.

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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2011, 10:53:38 AM »

L48 auto would be DF.
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Oaklyss
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« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2011, 11:05:58 AM »

ZL2 Air cleaner code for L48 manual is DE 6485233 (this is would I have, The DE is also shown on my Chassis Broadcast Copy)

ZL2 code for L48 automatic is DF 6485234

ZL2 code for L34, L35, L78 Z/28 is DG 6485235
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« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2011, 12:22:10 PM »

The sticker that I posted is off of a Jan 69 built car.
Steve, what's the build date of that car?
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Kurt S
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« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2011, 05:13:42 PM »

The sticker that I posted is off of a Jan 69 built car.
Steve, what's the build date of that car?

The picture is from my 04C built NOR car and another car with the same sticker is 03B.
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« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2011, 03:53:00 PM »

thanks for the info Oaklyss and william.....interesting that the code and part number is the same for the ZL2 ...L34, L35, L78 Z/28 ... DG 6485235 and its different for the ZL2  L 48.
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« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2011, 04:54:33 PM »

The L48 auto ZL2 air cleaner assembly is unique in that it has the valve in the snout for the exhaust manifold pre-heat. Not reproduced and hard to find.

The 350/manual unit is somehow different than the 396-427-Z/28 unit; don't know why. Needs a side-by-side comparison.
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« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2011, 08:34:09 PM »

do we know what the code and part number is for a 4 sp manual camaro L 48 car? a buddy i know wants to know Smiley

[ thanks for starting the post Les Smiley ]
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69redrsss
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2011, 10:34:56 PM »

According to the GM parts books the manual L48 is 6484583.  As I mentioned earlier I have yet to find this in the AIM or any reference to a 350 4BBL manual transmission air cleaner.  All current reproduction decals with this part number I know of say that it is for a 350/255HP (LM1) engine and has the code CN.  Unfortunately I can't tell you if that is correct. The sequencing lines up well with CO 6484584 for the automatic L48. So I tend to believe the letters go with the part but the description likely should be "69 350 255 or 300HP 4BBL" which per the parts catalogues would line up with the single part number listed for a 69 350 4BBL.
If you look up the decal for a 69 350/300HP many catalogues you will show DC403 or CR 6485887. None of my Camaro parts catalogues list this part number.  6485887 tends to suggest a 1971 part (6485886 is for a 71-72 6 cyl while 6485902 is for a 1971 307). The Golden Eagle Classics catalogue lists CR 6485887 for a 70-71 350/454 4BBL Corvette.   
I've actually got both the CN & CR decals (bought in ignorance assuming one would be correct).  I could mail you the CN if you send me your address in a PM.
if someone has a better answer please butt in. 
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Les
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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2011, 11:34:41 PM »

CN is the correct code for a 69 L48 manual car.
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« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2011, 08:09:28 AM »

The two letters are C O and the part# is 6484584 for L48 auto.

So, is this the sticker we want for the L48 350/300hp auto, or is the jury still out?  And, is anyone selling this C O label printed with the correct hp? Also, I sure like the black C O label posted by Kurt. Do you know which color is correct, white or black?
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69redrsss
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« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2011, 03:03:57 PM »

There is no CO 6484584 label (white or black) out there that I can find.  We're fully satisfied the code & numbering is correct for the L48 or LM1 (350/4BBL) auto and it is CN 6484583 for a manually equipped L-48 or LM1 inspite of what some of catalogues tell you.

I'm gathering post info & some PMs to see if I can get Jim Osborn to make one. They are a GM approved reproduction company for these decals.

I'm currently waiting upon an owner of a black decal car to provide their build date & factory.  Also waiting for some dimensions off a white one rather than trying to scale off a photo.  Anyone else with an original decal seeing this post please send what you have.  I personally only have my eyes on getting a white one but others have expressed interest in getting a black one on the assumption that the color is build date (vs. factory) related.

A black decal has been found on a January car & white ones built after March.  Those are CO 6484584s.  I've not heard any mention of a black CN 6484583 decal. That's all I know at the moment. 
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Les
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« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2011, 03:00:42 PM »

For those waiting on news the black CO 6484584 decal owner contacted me and said he should be able to get us more info in the next couple of weeks.
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Les
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« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2011, 04:56:47 PM »

I'm supposed to go look at three cars one day next week as soon as it warms up a little. I know for sure one is L48 Auto so maybe I will get something from it.
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Daniel  
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« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2011, 06:12:02 PM »

For those waiting on news the black CO 6484584 decal owner contacted me and said he should be able to get us more info in the next couple of weeks.

Guilty as charged. Looking forward to your findings and wether or not it was build-date specific?
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KurtS
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« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2011, 01:18:33 AM »

It's definitely date specific. That black sticker is the style used in 68. It changed to the white sticker mid-69.
The sticker was on the air cleaner as shipped into the plants, so the timing should be similar for both plants.
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« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2011, 01:09:02 PM »

I am finding this thread very interesting.  I am restoring the original air cleaner on my L48 / THM 350.  All that was left of the original sticker was an outline of where it was on the air cleaner.  Not even a hint of color. Hope this thread can tell me what color an 11D (Nov. 1968) L48 auto RS/SS 350 had from the factory. I now know I need a CO 6484584 sticker, now I just need verification on the color. Thanks for all the information so far.

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« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2011, 10:13:34 PM »

Boston 14....thats same build date as my RS/SS L 48 auto car. unfortunatly my original air cleaner went into the garbage 30 years ago  Embarrassed   mines a garnet red car with white deluxe hounds tooth interior.
whats your car?  Smiley
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« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2011, 10:30:30 PM »

Based on the pictures & build date info we've got to date you're likely looking at a black decal. They appear to have been used for cars up to Jan '69. Starting in March '69 white seems to be the norm.  February is still an unknown. It would be interesting to know whether your outline suggests a black one with slightly tapered corners or white rectangular.   

BTW my car is also garnet red with deluxe white houndstooth & L48 auto.
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Les
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« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2012, 12:22:17 PM »

I just confirmed with an owner of a black decal car that the text (except for the part number which is 6484584) and text layout matches that for the '68 295HP 350 (decal DC0719).  The ends are different being tapered as per his & Kurt's photos.  
As far as the white decal is concerned I have to wait a few months until its owner pulls it out of storage in the spring to get some measurements.  I will contact Jim Osborn about adding these.
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« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2012, 04:23:15 PM »

I realize this is a ways off but...Once all the info is in for the black CO, and if Jim decides to move forward with production, I would like to see good pics of the finished product. I would also like to see how it matches up against the original...if that's possible.  

Thanks for the update Les...nice work!              
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« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2012, 07:30:10 PM »

I've asked the owner of the early '69 black decal car to send me a clearer photo.  That and the car Kurt found on ebay are the only two original ones we have to work with. I'll post an update with photos when the dust settles.
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Les
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« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2012, 12:25:16 PM »

In response to some queries attached are the photos I currently have to develop an early (up to Jan/Feb) '69 black background reproduction decal for automatic L48s & LM1s. I've also attached a photo of the current '68 L48 reproduction decal that, with a modified part number and shape, may end up being used as a basis for the '69 decal.
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Les
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« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2012, 04:00:26 AM »

Here's an original black sticker on a late 08C 69: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260941610938
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« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2012, 12:59:28 AM »

And here's a white sticker on a late Oct 69 L48 manual:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CAMARO-RS-SS-/320839416048
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« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2012, 01:45:22 PM »

Kurt - Nice examples of both versions. Thanks for posting!
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« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2012, 03:02:05 AM »

Hard to imagine if the air cleaner assembly came from AC and the same ones were used on LM1 and LM48s there would be a different decal on them based on the engine - it wouldn't seem to serve any pupose would it?
I always assumed the HP sticker was installed by the plant.
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« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2012, 10:56:21 AM »

Hard to imagine if the air cleaner assembly came from AC and the same ones were used on LM1 and LM48s there would be a different decal on them based on the engine - it wouldn't seem to serve any pupose would it?
I always assumed the HP sticker was installed by the plant.

That's correct - the air cleaner lid sticker was installed at the car assembly plant, not at AC.
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« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2012, 02:33:18 AM »

Thanks!
Something on the broadcast sheet must have told them which sticker. Not obvious to me which box, maybe the engine option code....
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« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2012, 02:15:02 PM »

Les, I stopped by the 4C Nor built car and took another photo of the decal and have the measurements as well . Take in consideration the deterioration and shrinkage of a 43 year old paper decal. Height 1.612 and length 4.850.
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« Reply #53 on: July 17, 2012, 05:18:33 AM »

Anyone find a source for a DE sticker?
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« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2012, 08:27:19 PM »

Box number 180 on the Chassis Broadcast Copy is labled air cleaner. On mine, the 2 letter code is DE which is what is on my air cleaner decal.

No one makes a repro DE as of now.

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« Reply #55 on: July 17, 2012, 10:11:00 PM »

Thanks thought so.
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« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2012, 08:37:02 PM »

69pace directed me to this thread. If anybody can get a good, quality picture of an original DE sticker than we can maybe take a look at doing it.
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Don_Lightfoot
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« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2012, 12:59:22 PM »

I was approached in early 2011 to see if we could do one of these air cleaner decals.  The code was CT part number 6485904.  I do not recall the name of the enthusiast nor what application it was for.  The overall layout was the same as reflected in the picture of the original DE decal posted in here earlier.  However, that CT had the code and number in a different vertical alignment on the original decal than this DE one.  Also, the font for the code was smaller.  The repro I looked at for the CT decal had all the usual spacing and alignment problems common to decals we look at.  In addition, the three trademarks were centered to the width of the decal rather than be offset to the right of the decal.  The CT one we did came out quite nice.

Member Brian has been asking over the past few days if we do this DE decal.  Well, I’ve gone back to that CT one we did and have made the necessary adjustments to convert it to the DE decal.  I’ve posted a picture below.  My new template is such that it should be easy to change the code and part number to meet any of the several other decals used in 69 based on engine and transmission (DF and DG for example).

Let me know what you think.


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69pace
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« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2012, 04:43:30 PM »

Looks very good to me unless someone with an intact and readable original DE decal on a cowl induction air cleaner thinks the colors are different, I'll buy a few. Smiley
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Oaklyss
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« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2012, 10:37:17 PM »

I magnified mine and it looks like the letters are in Black. Almost positive. Also the font is a little thinner then your repro. But I am interested in buying some when you get them nailed down. It is a very rare sticker and not many were built, I have never seen another car in person equiped like this.
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« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2012, 11:39:44 PM »

Ah so Don maybe the DE is using the same format as the "CQ" decal in black text and black logos, red text?

The attached reproduction of the CQ is too wide and the font is wrong and spacing is wrong proportions but you get the idea, your mock up is the right size.
Oaklyss is right the font on his seems just a bit thinner then the others used in 69?
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« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2012, 08:59:00 AM »

Good to get some feedback guys.  Changing the "Keep your........" to Black is not a problem.  Can take a shot at fiddling with the font as well.

However, if the trademarks are to be Black rather than Blue then I cannot do that.  It would have to go back to my sioftware guru and it may stay on the back burner for a while as he has some other projects he's looking at right now.  If the trademarks are Blue then I can post another draft with the other two items changed.

Any additional input is welcome.
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« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2012, 07:41:24 PM »

I may have an update tomorrow.  I downloaded a new font for the “Keep your.......” script which I believe is more in line with a comment made earlier.  The font in the same “Keep your.........” script in the picture 69pace just posted above is close, but not correct.  In addition, I cropped the “Black” trademarks out of a picture posted earlier in this thread and am trying to incorporate it as well.  Stay tuned I guess.
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« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2012, 10:04:31 PM »

Don thanks for the update. Fingers crossed here.
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« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2012, 09:34:23 AM »

Here are two drafts in Blue and Black for comparison.  The font for "Keep your......" is dead on to that used on an original for a similar item.  I am not in a position to determine if Black or Blue is correct so you guys will need to confirm that.

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69pace
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« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2012, 08:54:30 PM »

You are good.
Both look dead on for the font and spacing.
I guess Oaklyss is the only one with a surviving tag.
Maybe Someone has another example of an original cowl induction air cleaner decal for the L48 manual here?
I just posted a request over on Farcebook in the pace car group so maybe we will get another point of reference, But I think its black.
If it was originally blue that faded, it would still look more like a light iconic GM blue or turquoise blue IMHO.

I'll let you know if anyone posts tonight on FB.

Brian


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« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2012, 11:58:44 PM »

Don, the new sticker looks better. Are the part numbers a little fatter then original?  I used a Jewelers Loupe on mine to see the colors. On the trademarks and the large letters it does look black.
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« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2012, 10:21:56 AM »

Don, the new sticker looks better. Are the part numbers a little fatter then original?  I used a Jewelers Loupe on mine to see the colors. On the trademarks and the large letters it does look black.

Maybe its a question of BOLD vs regular font weight ? Yeah I'm satisfied that its BLACK.

Over on Facebook in the 1969 Pace Car Restoration group that has 215 members there, 18 have read the post, but I just really find it strange that none of the L-48 manual cars have a sticker left which makes me wonder if my decal chalking away and vanishing wasn't just a fluke.

Mine was just paper crumbling off back in 1982, just as my trunk jacking instructions is now turning into, and I chalked (no pun Smiley ) it up to long term storage issues.

Looks like the material used in the sticker and the ink that was used wasn't meant to last 43 years.

Since ZL2 was a mid year introduction, maybe do to that and the low volume needed of these decals, they  were manufactured in a rush by another vendor on the cheap.

Maybe JohnZ, Kurt or William can find an example in their archives?

In any event I widened the search for an example in better shape and posted yesterday over at http://camaropacecars.com and http://Yenko.net.
40 people have read at Yenko but no responses, and pacecars is a real slow forum so who knows if anyone will ever read it. Smiley
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« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2012, 10:55:50 AM »

The L48 auto ZL2 air cleaner assembly is unique in that it has the valve in the snout for the exhaust manifold pre-heat. Not reproduced and hard to find.

The 350/manual unit is somehow different than the 396-427-Z/28 unit; don't know why. Needs a side-by-side comparison.
William could it this be due tot he Rochester carb on the L48?
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« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2012, 11:11:36 AM »

I would like to see a guestimate of how many ZL2 350 4 speeds were built. 10,026 ZL2 hoods, 22,339 L48 built. 37,816 M-20 built (all models)
ZL-2 was installed on 2000 est COPO, 69 ZL-1, 3,675 Z11,  300?  Z-10.
Was availible to order on: 20,302 Z/28, 34,932 SS.
Hoods were only available starting January (except 2 ZL-1 in December).
I have only seen 1 4 speed 350 pace car.
I have never seen another factory documented 350 SS ZL-2 4 speed.
Any guesses?
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« Reply #70 on: August 05, 2012, 12:05:41 PM »

Jeff sent me and Don a pic of his survivor DG decal.
Still looking for a DE and a DF.

Can someone confirm the
ZL2 code for L34, L35, L78 Z/28 is DG 6485235
ZL2 code for L48 automatic is DF 6485234
ZL2 Air cleaner code for L48 manual is DE 6485233
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« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2012, 12:06:43 PM »

Don, can you do anything for the CO 6484584 decal?

Thanks.
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« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2012, 01:25:25 PM »

That's a great picture of the DG Brian.  I notice a number of things that are a little different than what I've been fiddling with.  The two digit alpha code is a different font again, but I have found it. The "keep your......" script is also a slightly different font although I think I have also found it.  There is also more "White space" at the bottom and top than what I was dealing with. Any chance you can get Jeff to get a measurement for us?


Don, can you do anything for the CO 6484584 decal?

Thanks.

I'm trying.  I did download the correct font for the two digit alpha code yesterday as the repro font for that is not even close.  I have the benefit of having an excellent picture of the Black CV decal (same family) and the main body text is "justified" on both the left and right sides, the repro is not.  So, yes, I am fiddling with these ones as well.  Here are a few questions which would help with the Black ones:
- What are the various two digit alpha codes, part numbers and applicable filter numbers?
- Was the printing White or Gold?

It's unfortunate this thread got sidetracked from the original Black decals to the White decals - think we can blame Brian (69pace) for that :-)  Separate threads would have been less confusing.
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« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2012, 02:19:02 PM »

Jeff sent me and Don a pic of his survivor DG decal.
Still looking for a DE and a DF.

Can someone confirm the
ZL2 code for L34, L35, L78 Z/28 is DG 6485235
ZL2 code for L48 automatic is DF 6485234
ZL2 Air cleaner code for L48 manual is DE 6485233

Its confirmed by the AIM Page ZL-2 A3. It shows the part numbers but not the letter codes.
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Oaklyss
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« Reply #74 on: August 05, 2012, 02:38:14 PM »

That's a great picture of the DG Brian.  I notice a number of things that are a little different than what I've been fiddling with.  The two digit alpha code is a different font again, but I have found it. The "keep your......" script is also a slightly different font although I think I have also found it.  There is also more "White space" at the bottom and top than what I was dealing with. Any chance you can get Jeff to get a measurement for us

Don, that DG sticker is just what we needed to see. The DE must of been exactly like it. Just change the DG to DE and the part number and we are there! thank you for all your effort.
As a bonus, you can now make a correct DG sticker as the repros are far from correct.
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« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2012, 04:56:48 PM »

That's a great picture of the DG Brian.  I notice a number of things that are a little different than what I've been fiddling with.  The two digit alpha code is a different font again, but I have found it. The "keep your......" script is also a slightly different font although I think I have also found it.  There is also more "White space" at the bottom and top than what I was dealing with. Any chance you can get Jeff to get a measurement for us?

I'll send him a message and see if he can.

Don, can you do anything for the CO 6484584 decal?

Thanks.

I'm trying.  I did download the correct font for the two digit alpha code yesterday as the repro font for that is not even close.  I have the benefit of having an excellent picture of the Black CV decal (same family) and the main body text is "justified" on both the left and right sides, the repro is not.  So, yes, I am fiddling with these ones as well.  Here are a few questions which would help with the Black ones:
- What are the various two digit alpha codes, part numbers and applicable filter numbers?
- Was the printing White or Gold?

It's unfortunate this thread got sidetracked from the original Black decals to the White decals - think we can blame Brian (69pace) for that :-)  Separate threads would have been less confusing.

LOL You guys asked for information on decals for the 69 L48 - so you got all the possible options for the 1969 L48 so you have a clear picture now of how many there were and which ones are automatics. Smiley If you like I can open a new thread and abandon this one.
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« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2012, 05:13:13 PM »

Man, I gotta get a life.  Here it is Sunday in the middle of a long weekend here in Ontario and I've spent most of the day fiddling with this thing.  Well, it rained here all day so the Car Event I wanted to go to was a washout and I didn't have anything else planned.

I've printed out a draft copy on plain paper.  The light for my picture wasn't the best unfortunately.  Comparison is in the picture below.  It may be necessary to make the Red text a little more Burgundy.  the GM and AC logos are out a bit, but I can't do anything about that. This one is about 4 5/8" by 1 1/2  Let me know what you think.

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« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2012, 06:17:30 PM »

We have severe thunderstorms here today so I'm in the same boat.
Mockup looks good for the DG version. The red text still looks a little thicker then the original IMHO.
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« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2012, 06:32:18 PM »

The red text still looks a little thicker then the original IMHO.

Ya Brian, I've been fiddling with a smaller font and then "stretching it" to accomplish that goal.  However, although the overall length of those lines can end in the same spot, some of the "vertical" alignment in other areas of the text don't line up with the "Know your...." text.  Close, but not as accurate as the one you see.  I may post a picture of the change to get some thoughts.
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« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2012, 06:47:37 PM »

Here's that other sample Brian. I did the same scenario with the part number too.

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69pace
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« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2012, 10:03:25 PM »

Here's that other sample Brian. I did the same scenario with the part number too.

Ah now that's a thing of beauty Smiley
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« Reply #81 on: August 06, 2012, 10:49:05 AM »

Thanks to the members here for their input and request to do these. The DE, DF and DG White decals are now available through my website.

Hope to have something on the Black CO decal shortly.
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Danzo
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« Reply #82 on: August 06, 2012, 07:50:02 PM »

Don, what about the CO decal in white?

Thanks.
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Don_Lightfoot
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« Reply #83 on: August 06, 2012, 09:51:10 PM »

Don, what about the CO decal in white?

Shouldn't be a problem now that I have the general format laid out. Go back to page 2 and look at the picture Steve posted - is the "Keep your........" script in Blue or Black? I notice the Red script is aligned slightly different than the ones I just did, but that shouldn't be a major problem.  You determine that colour and I can look at it after finalizing the Black one.
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« Reply #84 on: August 07, 2012, 11:51:11 AM »

For those that were interested, here is the Black CO decal.  You will note the main text body is justified on the left and the right, unlike the repro.  The font for the CO is a weird one, but it matches the style of an original one I have on file (different code), the repro font for this code is not correct.

The main dilemma to be faced here is the corners.  The originals had a strange style to them.  It seems as if each corner had three different angles.  I tried to replicate those cuts manually with one of these I did a year or so ago, but the end result was not that good.  Not up to the standards I like to maintain.  It would almost take a specially designed die punch to do those corners and I am not in a position to warrant that kind of investment as this would likely be the only item to use it on.  I have a ¼ inch round corner punch which I don’t think would be large enough for comparison to original.  A ½” round corner punch would be much closer, although not exact, and I ordered one yesterday which will likely be a couple of weeks before I get it (could not find one locally).  Any enthusiasts interested in this item would have to decide themselves if the round corner, rather than the three angled corner, is satisfactory for them.  Alternatively, they could order it square and arrange for trimming themselves.

I didn’t get any responses to my earlier questions which I will repeat here if anybody can help:
- Was the printing White or Gold?
- What are the other CODES, PART NUMBERS and FILTER NUMBERS that were used as they would no doubt be the same style?

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« Reply #85 on: August 08, 2012, 09:25:48 AM »

The white CO decal is finished.  Information is on my website
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« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2012, 07:01:52 PM »

The L48 auto ZL2 air cleaner assembly is unique in that it has the valve in the snout for the exhaust manifold pre-heat. Not reproduced and hard to find.

The 350/manual unit is somehow different than the 396-427-Z/28 unit; don't know why. Needs a side-by-side comparison.

William - did other L48 auto's also have the same valve? I have a vacuum controlled valve on the original snout of my air cleaner
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« Reply #87 on: August 09, 2012, 08:22:29 PM »

Don – glad to see you are working on the black CO sticker!

Can you please post a pic of the sticker you are using as a template/example? I find it very unusual that there would be 3 or 4 different corners on a mass produced item like this. Something tells me it simply has to do with heat and elements distorting it over time. Also, can you tell me if the originals had adhesive built in or was it applied by hand? If it was applied by hand, or the glue wasn’t applied evenly, each corner would wear differently over time.
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« Reply #88 on: August 09, 2012, 09:54:11 PM »

Marty, here is a picture of an original CV Black decal.  We used that as a format for the CU decal we did for somebody a year or two ago.  Also, in this thread, on page 1 (post #7) Kurt has a picture of an original and on page 4 (post #45) Les has a picture of an original.

In Les’ post he also put a picture of a current reproduction.  From that picture you can notice several things, but mostly the fonts for the code are way off and the text lines are not right justified.  The corners on that repro appear to be ½” rounded which is how mine will likely look once I get that punch I ordered.

For the CU decal below, I cut the corners with scissors in an effort to replicate the original.  The finished product is really not as good as the picture might indicate.  There was also a lot of spoilage involved as I had to print out several of them just to get one cut to a fairly decent standard.  I was not overly happy with the end result, but the person who ordered it said it was better than anything else out there.

It sure appears to me the originals had weird corners or “tapered ends”, if you will.  Could they in fact have been round and just decayed over time?  That is certainly a possibility.

I certainly can't say about the adhesive Marty, but I would think they were self adhesive.  I believe only the posi and jack decals for the trunk were without glue.  I certainly stand to be corrected on that.

Also, you can tell why I was asking if the originals had the White or Gold printing.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 10:13:24 PM by Don_Lightfoot » Logged

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« Reply #89 on: August 09, 2012, 10:44:36 PM »

I wish we had a better pic to go by or someone who actually had this CO sticker. Kurt’s pic appears to show signs of an “Aluminum Sheet Decal”. If this is in fact the case, no telling what this base material/metal would do to the white lettering over time. Sorry, didn’t mean to complicate the issue but it might be worth looking into. In addition, can you tell what type of overlay was used? Those old black stickers sure look shinny.

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69pace
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« Reply #90 on: August 10, 2012, 01:00:19 AM »

Marty - 60's printing technology on offset presses would not have included metallic inks for the most part. So common practice would have to used the base of aluminum or gold foil and print black on top of it. The common issues with these types of printing jobs was either delamination of the ink from the metallic base, or scratching off of the printed top layer. I would think the base of those was originally a aluminum Mylar base as that was a common flexible base for tons of printing jobs including bumper stickers.
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« Reply #91 on: August 10, 2012, 09:17:44 AM »

I would think this particular decal style I would seal on the surface with clear 3M vinyl like I do with my spring tags and other items.  This would give it that slightly shiny finish.  I'm also feeling I will go with White print unless evidence comes forward to indicate Gold.

The one I did a year or so ago was about 4" wide which is less than the White decals.  I imagine that measurement came from the person who wanted it.  I will likely go with that size unless somebody can provide more concrete input.
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« Reply #92 on: August 10, 2012, 09:26:40 AM »

Works fore me...where do I sign up??? Grin
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« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2012, 10:48:39 AM »

Works fore me...where do I sign up??? Grin
You don't have to be an AARP member Marty  :-)

I'll post a picture in here once I get the punch and have a sample made up.
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