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Author Topic: 1967 Camaro RS SS Convertible  (Read 2837 times)
Axlman
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1967 RS SS Convertible


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« on: October 17, 2011, 06:16:38 PM »

Hello everyone;
We are brand new to the forum and have reviewed a lot of posts. Everyone seems very knowledgeable so I am hoping that I can get some information from the members.
I have a lot to catch up on as a recent Camaro enthusiast. My son and I have been building a 1957 Buick Special convertible for about a year now and he recently saw a 1967 Camaro at a car show.
Knowing that the Buick could be (is) a multi-year project, he asked if we could get a driver to use while building the Buick and he fell in love with the 67 Camaro.
We found and purchased the following:

1967 Camaro RS SS Convertible
VIN 124677N1616**
Production Date December 28, 1966
Norwood.
Purchased at Cornwall Motors in Cornwall Ontario. One of 1325 cars sold in Canadian Dealerships.
Decent options:

Was Tahoe Turquoise with a black power top. (now white and a poor paint job)
3.55 axle ratio
RS Package
SS Package
Deluxe seatbelts front and rear
Extra Gauges
Front compartment console
and a few others.
I have the option build sheet from GM.


Of course the car was a 350 Turbo Fire V8 when it came from the factory. The previous owner had it for 26 years. When he purchased the car the original owner had changed out the 350 for a 327 engine.
Apparently he could not find a 1967 350 block but he could find a 1967 327 block. Does this make sense to have replaced the 350 with a 327?

Secondly, the guy I got the car from says that he had the 327 block (a 1967) bored out to 350 with the 350 forged crank etc.
He claimed that having a 1967 327 bored out to 350 was a good thing, not as good as the original 350 but good nonetheless.

What are your thoughts?
I am trying to contact the original owner to see if on a million to one chance he kept the 350 block or knows where it is.
But assuming it cannot be located should I try to source a 350 engine with the correct casting numbers and date codes? Is it possible to find one? If so, what do you suggest to start looking for one?
If one is found how good is it to have a "correct engine" instead of a "numbers matching engine", or is it that not having the original means that the value is simply affected and having a correct casting number will not make a difference? Overall we are not 100% concerned with having a numbers matching car, but if it is possible we will do what we can. Either way the car will be driven daily all summer.

And lastly, does the fact that it is a Canadian car and one of only 1325 units sold to Canadian Dealerships add any value to the car? Not that I will sell it. Ever. My kid has excellent taste in cars and I now love the Camaro.
Our plan is to restore it in the winters and drive it in the summers. All original with the exception of a disc brake package. Overall the car is in great shape with a few leaks from sitting but it made the 2400 mile trip across the USA without incident and the interior is almost perfect. So we are very pleased.

We would welcome any of your thoughts and advice on what we should do.

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 11:19:55 PM by KurtS » Logged

1967 Camaro RS SS Convertible
TooManyReels
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2011, 06:35:47 PM »

Welcome to CRG..I'm sure you will find most if not all the answers to your questions here....

Eddie
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Eddie
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MyRed67
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 01:17:17 AM »

  If you know how check for the Block Casting #,  casting #3892657 was used for both 327 and 350(also 302)   Difference was the stroke of the Crankshaft.   The Main Journals were Align Honed out to the larger size for the 350 crankshaft.   Another difference though, Higher Performance engines(350 &302) had a partial Vin. stamped on the front pad.  The 327's didn't.
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1967 Camaro  LOS  11A
Original Engine   Z - Tribute
Mike C.    NW - Illinois
Axlman
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1967 RS SS Convertible


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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 01:20:42 AM »

Thanks guys.
Myred67, how badly does a 327 with the correct casting number affect the value of the car?
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1967 Camaro RS SS Convertible
Gramps69Z
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 07:58:53 AM »

You'll find a lot of information on this page. Welcome to CRG.
http://www.camaros.org/index.shtml
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Captain John Wykoff
Destin Fire     11 months  to go

I'm sick and tired of mismanagement and disappointment. 
I'm a COWBOYS fan.
Petes L48
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 12:05:42 PM »

What will bring up the value is having the factory original  drivetrain.  A non-original 327 isn't much different than having a non-original 350 in most peoples opinions.  An L30 version of the 327, if you had one, isn't much lower in performance than the 350.  Aside from that, the previous owner was probably just looking at ease of replacement when he went with a 327 over say a big block.  Being sold in Canada isn't as big a value factor as having documentation, which happens to be more readily available on Canadian than most of the US sold cars still around, due to their records requirements.  As you get into this, you'll see that Chevrolet wasn't big on keeping a lot of records, to include combinations of options on cars sold.   

You may want to post up your trim tag, P-O-P, any docs at some point, and look at trans and rear axle codes to see if original.  First step is to start reading all the info on this site, then post questions or use the forum search feature as you learn about things.  Knowing what your intentions are for the car will also help folks here give you advice.  BTW that white paint looks like butternut yellow, must be the lighting.

Also, if you end up searching for the original block etc, do not broadcast your full VIN as unfortunately there are shady characters with stamp sets, who will magically find (counterfeit) your original engine.         
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Axlman
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1967 RS SS Convertible


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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 01:21:20 PM »

Petes L48;
Thanks for the reply. GM Canada was very helpful and provided the full option sheet on the car. I can email a copy if anyone wants to review it. (not sure I should post it because the vin is on it).
I appreciate the advice on the VIN number not being put out complete. Makes sense now that it has been pointed out.
I intend to restore the car to original with my 9 year old son over the winters and drive it in the summers. Engine and drive train this year and paint and body next year. The Buick has become a project that is likely out of our hands and off to a rod shop as we have decided on a complete custom rod for that car and my son wanted a driver we can use in the summer for cruize ins and shows.
I am 99% sure that the Trans and rear end are original but I will confirm that this weekend.
We are going to pull the engine and trans right away as everything is leaking a bit and the exhaust needs a total replacement.
I will also pull the tank and see if there is a Protecto Plate there or under the seats etc. Anywhere else to look?
I have no other documents with the car. The guy I bought it from had nothing and he owned it for more than 25 years. So it may be hard to find the other owners after all this time. But I intend to try.
Given the condition of the car it is a shame not to have the original engine.
Has anyone ever found a "long Gone" engine? If so, I would appreciate any advice as to where to start and what to try.

Thanks everyone.










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1967 Camaro RS SS Convertible
tom
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2011, 01:42:01 PM »

Welcome to the site!
Vin is from Norwood, so chances of a build sheet above the gas tank are slim. To me not original is not original for the engine. A "correct" 67 engine would probably add value to some buyers, but you have gold in the form of that GM Canada build documentation, and desireable options. Protecto plate would be attached to the owners manual. How to decode the vin and trim tag is posted on this site. Yes long gone engines have been found, but beware there are too many crooks who would try to sell you the original engine they just found someplace, as soon as they get it all stamped up to look right. Before you buy such an engine get a high quality photo of the unpainted stampings and post it here for the experts to examine.
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Axlman
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2011, 02:43:53 AM »

Ok. So I may have gotten extremely lucky. Like CAMARO LOTTERY lucky. I found an engine and have bought it. It is at the very least a early 1967 350 engine out of a true RS/SS. As unbelievable as this will sound I located a person selling a 67 RS/SS online. In the ad it said that the original engine from the car was part of the purchase price as her husband had pulled the original, replaced it with a newer engine, and planned to rebuild the original when he restored the car.  The husband passed away before the car and engine were restored and both sat since 1995. She finally decided to move and made the decision to sell the car.
When I emailed her she called me two days later she said she had just sold the car. I asked her for the buyers name to see if they would sell the engine out of the car. She said that the buyer did not want the date matching engine and left it behind. So I bought it.
i am picking it up this weekend and will confirm the casting and date numbers. But the lady was almost positive that her husbands car was built in the third week of December and he found a engine made two days before the car. My car was made on Dec 28 and delivered Dec 29. So, like I said, the Camaro Lottery if it proves to be dated within 10 or 12 days.
So that leaves me with a question. Does anyone have interest in a 1967 327 engine out of a Camaro? Is it worth anything more than any other 327 due to age or does it matter?
I am about to pull the engine this week and hopefully have the 350 ready to go to the shop.
Thanks for the help.

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1967 Camaro RS SS Convertible
Petes L48
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2011, 08:42:49 AM »

It'll only have decent worth to someone looking for that particular date range for a 67 Camaro "back to original" resto.  You could go over to the Team Camaro site and put a free ad in the classifieds, listing the casting dates and engine plant stamp.  Since the 327s didn't have the partial VIN stamp I'm not sure if it could be listed in the 67 Orphans section on this site. 
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68Zproject
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2011, 11:29:46 AM »

Put the old engine in the "Orphans" section here.  Someone else might be looking for their original engine.    You either have the original engine or you don't and it only takes someone that knows about 10 seconds to find that out. Understand this next part is only opinion: If you don't, I would say it doesn't matter what you have in it if it's not original.  If you have an engine that is "close" and that makes you feel good, that's all that matters.
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68Z28
Axlman
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1967 RS SS Convertible


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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2011, 11:59:59 AM »

Once I pick up the 350 and know that it is as correct as possible I will post the 327 here for sure. I am aware that anything but original is second best but I would like the car to as original as possible in all respects. I managed to speak to the second owner of the car and purchase the original heads and manifold and carburetor, so the only part of the car that is not 100% original is actually the block. I know that that is the biggest item but nevertheless it is as close as one could get. After researching I haven't found many first generation Camaros with the original block. I looked high and low and found two that were absolute frauds, base cars put out as true rs/ss models. So I was happy to find this one and look forward to making it as authentic as I can.
I would never represent that the car is anything but what it is but it is great that you guys are here and know so much. This forum was key to my being cautious after reading posts for many days. I asked the right questions of the owners and caught both up in lies about their cars. Believe it or not, one was a movie studio employee in Hollywood that had an ad on Autabuy for a beautiful 67 rs/ss convertible, fully restored and "all Original". Everything checked out until I was ready to send a deposit and wanted to see the title, cowl tag and vin numbers. AFter much delay he sent me his banking information, explained that the car was rented to the studio to be used in a movie for an unknown period of time but would be ready for pickup as soon as possible. The title that he sent me had a name of a guy in Maine on it (he hadn't bothered to  transfer it to a California title because it was too much trouble), and the cowl tag was obviously wrong. Turns out that when I pointed out that the tag was for a 68 base model he immediately faxed me a printed picture of the "actual" tag. Luckily I was suspicious enough to track down the guy from Maine on the internet.
Mike Fiori is his name. He is a classic car dealer in Maine and had completely built the Camaro in question and sold it to a guy in LA. Turns out that Mike built the Tribute car from the ground up as it had no drivetrain and needed a complete overhaul. he decided to do a tribute car as an rs/ss. The guy from LA sent him pictures of a beautiful 64 Ford Falcon convertible and a 63 Chev convertible that he wanted to trade for the Camaro and sent $5,000 to finish the deal. The transportation company verified that they were picking up the two trade cars and Mike put the Camaro on a truck and trailer to head out west.
A week later two nice looking cars arrived on his lot and he thought he did a great deal. When they pushed the cars onto the lot however, they discovered that niether car had an interior, drive train, or anything else. They were both studio cars used for films.
I share this story so others can be aware of what can happen. The fraudsters are becoming smarted and smarter. But what is worse is that I called his bank, Bank of America, and reported detailes including the name he used, account number, and address. I never heard back from the bank. I then called Autabuy and reported the guy and was told that this was the third complaint about this advertiser, yet the ad was still there three weeks later.
It is forums like this one with the expertise of you long term members that can help the purchasers from being taken for a ride. It seems that there is little else being done to protect people.
Glad I found you guys and with your help found a car that is largely original but exactly what I thought I was buying when I picked it up.
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1967 Camaro RS SS Convertible
Axlman
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 09:12:46 PM »

Hello all;
So I did the deal on the 350 Block and will have it in hand soon.
I have hired Cougar Paint and Collision here in Edmonton to do a complete paint job back to the original Tahoe Turquoise.
Cougar suggested having Dupont provide a modern mix on this color for us and I like the idea. It will be brighter and will provide a shine not found on the original.
I would like you all to weigh in on what color the engine compartment would have been on the car?
It is presently black but shouldnt the top portion match the exterior color? Cougar is doing a 69 in Hugger Orange and the top portion of the engine bay is orange.
thanks for letting me know.
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1967 Camaro RS SS Convertible
Mark
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2012, 10:26:28 PM »

Inner portions of the fenders are body color as they were painted off the body and installed later, inner wheel wells, radiator support, and firewall are semi gloss black (firewall is flatter black towards satin), body color extends across the top of the cowl to the bend where the firewall drops away, line between the body color and black is not a sharp taped line.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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Petes L48
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2012, 11:16:19 AM »

Go to the top of the page, click on the Advanced Search term to the right of the Search: box, and run a search using something like firewall paint or underhood paint.  You'll get many threads like this one:

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1608.0

You'll find that the firewall blackout paint process was not an exact art.
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