Author Topic: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -  (Read 2105 times)

GI JOE

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we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« on: August 28, 2011, 11:56:04 PM »
I have been thinking of doing something about the fraud being sold on eBay...  for example:  This Camaro is being advertised as a L78 Convertible and after reading 2 pages of crap you find out it is not even an SS let alone an L78... and asking $50k....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3984Q2em1423Q2el2649QQitemZ320748528866QQsspagenameZSTRKQ3aMEWAXQ3aIT

and it is not just the fake cars, it also the fake parts!  Until ebay is forced to do something about false advertising the crooks will continue to have a field day  >:(

You cannot rely on ebay even if you report the fraud.   So I am hoping that if enough of us put our heads together we can come up with some ideas on how we can stop this or something...

I am willing and able... any ideas?

PS i forgot to mention all the fake documents being sold too that are also polluting our hobby...
SFC GI JOE - Airborne Paratrooper
68- L-78, M22, BV
69- L-78, M22, BV, Conv

68Zproject

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2011, 12:18:26 AM »
Need a good Attorney who will start a class action.
68Z28

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 01:01:30 AM »
I think all of us feel your frustration and I applaud your dedication and enthusiasm. Only one problem...how do you take on a company as huge as EBay? One would have to assume their army of attorneys are well prepaired to deal with anyone trying to remove a large chunk of their income. One would also have to assume the political system is at their disposal. Unless you are more powerful (both politically & financially) than EBay, it is only a pipe dream.

I hope I'm wrong but I think you have done all that can be done. You have exposed one of these sellers for what they are. And...this is but one of many CRG has managed to expose. I don't know of any other site that has helped more to minimize these types of sales.   
 



GI JOE

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 01:54:31 AM »
Thanks Marty,

sadly I think you may be correct...   maybe we can get the ear of the FBI   or maybe we could start going public with what is going on with some talk shows or something.  I thought of starting a website posting any fraudulent cars VIN but that may still require a team of attorneys.   sigh  :-\
SFC GI JOE - Airborne Paratrooper
68- L-78, M22, BV
69- L-78, M22, BV, Conv

68camaroz28

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 11:17:15 AM »
Only one problem...how do you take on a company as huge as EBay? One would have to assume their army of attorneys are well prepaired to deal with anyone trying to remove a large chunk of their income. One would also have to assume the political system is at their disposal.

I don't know of any other site that has helped more to minimize these types of sales.   
 

Applaud the effort but this is not a ebay to say issue. We neither can or should expect Ebay or any company to have an army of employees checking every car/part/literature ad to verify it's the real deal. What about non-automotive parts as rip offs and fakes reside in all types of things as fraud has no boundaries. No different than someone placing an ad in the newspaper. Know personally I have sent messages to Ebay concerning a few very apparent shams and each one was removed.
The site that consistently warns and documents vin #'s etc. is Team Camaro. So between Team Camaro and here a lot of fraud or just say suspect Camaro's have been listed. That's the great news and shows a lot of people like you Joe CARE!
Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
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L78 steve

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 04:10:52 PM »
Ebay has a disclaimer. They cant be touched. They will pull the add if someone files a complaint. All that can be done is on the buyer. Do your research.
69 Z/28 Dover White X33,ZL2,PS,M20,Std.int.04C
67 SS/RS Mt. Green 1W,2LGSR,3SL,4K,5BY,07C
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1968RSZ28

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2011, 04:37:40 PM »
Here's Ebay's disclaimer, it appears on every listing...  "Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing."

Paul

KurtS

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 05:41:48 AM »
I thought of starting a website posting any fraudulent cars VIN but that may still require a team of attorneys.   sigh  :-\
And what if you're wrong?  Yuck, don't want to go there.

That's where the Team Camaro and CRG forums can at least help by stating opinions and including the VIN in the discussion.
Kurt S
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GI JOE

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 07:22:20 AM »
Thanks guys, I am seeing the issue in a better light now... guess we can just keep doing what we've been doing on CRG and team Camaro... 
SFC GI JOE - Airborne Paratrooper
68- L-78, M22, BV
69- L-78, M22, BV, Conv

Kelley W King

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2011, 12:29:34 PM »
Guys, Although many adds are fraud, I feel that many are just lack of knowledge. I go to shows where people really believe their X11 is a true Z because thats what they were told when they bought it. I have seen countless (L78s) that clearly were not but the owners were positive that they were. For most of us this is a hobby but for some it is a business. It is a buyer beware situation and CRG and Team Camaro are free tools that buyers should use. When looking for my Z28 years ago I think I spent more time researching than I did shopping.
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IZRSSS

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 01:15:39 PM »
Kelley - Well stated! Especially your last sentence.

elcamino72

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 05:16:10 PM »
As an attorney who specializes in collector car fraud there is no way to stop it.  With the values being what they are, there will always be folks trying to get more for their car than another car.  The extent to which they will go is anyone's guess.

As far as advertisements go, most people don't realize it, but they can be held to whatever they write about a car.  If they state that a car is an L78 or Z28, then they can be held to that statement if the car turns out to be otherwise.  A carefully worded ad may even be deceptive.  The best practice is not to rush into any purchase and do your homework ahead of time.  Even that is not failsafe, but it certainly helps flush out the less sophisticated frauds.  Also, I highly recommend having any Camaro looked at prior to purchasing, by someone such as Jerry MacNeish to ensure what you are negotiating for is really what is being offered.

Also keep in mind that if a deal is "too good to be true" it probably isn't true!

68Zproject

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2011, 09:42:45 PM »
I hope your office was well above ground this last week.
68Z28

GI JOE

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2011, 10:32:29 PM »
I was wondering if anyone knows if these fraudulent sales are also breaking GM copy rights...  I would think they are but I guess it comes down to what the big guys want to do about it.   I know it will never stop but I hope we can at least help those who would be victim to such wrong doing.
SFC GI JOE - Airborne Paratrooper
68- L-78, M22, BV
69- L-78, M22, BV, Conv

Indy 69

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2011, 01:42:33 AM »
This kind of fraud has been going on for decades, no point in in blaming ebay for allowing it to continue on it's merry way!!!
The hobby and greed has allowed it to become a monster that is now out of control.
My 2 pennies worth.... ???

restore-z28

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2011, 01:35:15 PM »
In my opinion E-Bay is not the culprit as their business model just connects a buyer and seller. Any auction house does the same thing like Barrett Jackson, Mecum etc. A buyer should always do their homework prior to spending those hard earned dollars, I think Mike Stone often says fill your library before you fill your garage, this makes complete sense. I have often seen sellers don't really know what they have....Someone before them told a story about the item and they took that person at their word. Very easy to get burned however it's sites like this that potential buyers can solicit feedback about trim tags, stampings and the overall car. 
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myty

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Re: we need to stop the fraud on ebay -
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2011, 02:33:36 PM »
 Someone got me for 2500.00 down payment a few years back on a 69 z28. (overseas)  >:(