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Author Topic: 69 wiper transmission and cowl plenum area color  (Read 11520 times)
firstgenaddict
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2006, 10:32:29 AM »

Gary you are correct... I thought that the thread did a pretty good job of illustrating the sequence of events...

From my observations of original cars & the CRG report the following is the order I believe was followed for the Black Car...
1. Body (minus front dog house) painted main color, cowl grille hanging in the pass side window and painted body color at the same time.
2. Wiper cowl blacked/ whited out
3. **Dash color painted** / firewall blackout done
4. Stripe painted on Fisher Assembly (body shell with doors and deck lid installed) in repair booth - cowl grille and spoilers striped off the body.

 *interior dash color may have been painted and masked off between 1 & 2 however there is some black overspray on top of the White in the wiper cowl which means either there was some black touch up after the white was sprayed (very likely as it is only at the base of the windshield around where the wiper transmission posts come through the upper cowl support) or the black on the dash was sprayed after the white (not too likely as the overspray does not appear to be velvet textured... it appears more like the 30 or 60 deg gloss black)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 12:39:35 PM by firstgenaddict » Logged

James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
JohnZ
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2006, 02:50:27 PM »

The upper instrument panel was painted in the second prime booth (before the body got any exterior color), baked, then masked off before exterior color was sprayed. See the "Fisher Paint Shop" section at:

        http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
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'69 Z/28
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2006, 06:22:56 PM »

John,
I had read that and fully believe that is what took place... I was theorizing on the3 black overspray on the white in the wiper cowl...
I guess it was sprayed near the base of the windshield and around the wiper arm posts in order to ensure that there would not be white showing through the gaps around them.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Dave69x33
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2006, 09:10:49 PM »

Sorry if I miss spoke about the wiper linkage being "phosphate black wiper linkage".  Mine had been painted gloss black long before I got my car, along with about everything else under the hood.  As I stripped the paint off the linkage, small hidden sections (from the paint) on the linkage appeared to be more of a dull phosphate like coating.  On the unrestored cars I have looked at, they too appear to be a dull black paint or phosphate.  Any way, I painted my linkage between a 40% - 60% gloss black.

I hope to see the above mentioned unrestored 69 Pace car again at a local show in two weeks.  I'll study it closely and report back with pictures.   


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GaryL
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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2006, 09:52:13 PM »

  The strip paint over sprayed into the well area, over the phostphate black wiper linkage and sometimes over sprayed out from the front edges of the cowl panel.

This is what confused me. It sounded as though only the stripe paint going thru the cowl grill openings got stripe color on the cowl.
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Gary

Lemans Blue X33. DZ, M20, manual steering. Only BU code rear end is original.
firstgenaddict
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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2006, 10:29:20 PM »

The wiper grille was striped off the car.
The cowl top was white/blacked out before the car left fisher's paint lines before the grille was even striped.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
KurtS
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« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2006, 11:23:45 PM »

To summarize:
The cowl plenum should be body color (or stripe color on Z's and pacers). I've seen only 1 or 2 cars that were blacked out, John's being the only one that comes to mind.
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Kurt S
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RamAirDave
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« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2006, 12:22:31 AM »

Im pretty sure Ive posted these before. Original paint black stripe Z that was blacked out in the cowl area.





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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2006, 08:08:19 AM »

The strip paint over sprayed into the well area, over the phostphate black wiper linkage and sometimes over sprayed out from the front edges of the cowl panel.

This is what confused me. It sounded as though only the stripe paint going thru the cowl grill openings got stripe color on the cowl.
Gary...Please do not credit me with the above statement.... I copied and pasted it from the 5th entry in this thread... it should be attributed to the author...Dave69X33.
I was merely illustrating that the statement was not correct and that the CRG report should be referred to.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
GaryL
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« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2006, 09:59:54 PM »

It didn't really matter to me who said it. I just confused me. Pretty easy to do. Grin
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Gary

Lemans Blue X33. DZ, M20, manual steering. Only BU code rear end is original.
Mark
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2006, 07:52:42 AM »

Yes, the whole car was painted body color, and then the area on top of the cowl was painted stripe color by Fisher.  They were then suppossed to black out the area under the cowl (where the wiper linkage is), but for the most part they didn't seem to do it.  The cowl panel itself was painted and striped (f required) separate from the car by Fisher, and wasn't installed until much later on the GM side of the plant, after the wiper linkage was installed.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2006, 11:46:22 AM »

To: All,

Again, sorry for any confusion I may have caused when I made reference to "phosphate black wiper linkage", and any reference to Z28 stripe color overspray onto the wiper linkage.  Thanks for keeping me straight! I should have done my homework and re-read the CRG research report (RR) on the 1st Gen Camaro Assy. Process.  I forgot that the "Z28" stripes were painted by Fisher Body on the cowl vent panel, trunk lid, and spoiler (ref, Color System, in the Fisher Body - Paint Shop Operations). I had assumed that they were painted in the Chevy Plant toward the end of the assembly line process as outlined in the Chevrolet Assembly Instruction Manual (AIM), pp. 474  - 475.  However, please note in the second paragraph, it states....."Z-28, Z-10, or Z11 stripes or black rear end panel or rockers, were masked and sprayed in .....including the cowl vent panel; the spoilers were painted and striped separate from the body and were installed before the body went back downstairs to the Trim Shop". 

The RR goes on to state in the first paragraph, in the section, Chevrolet Assembly - Trim Line Operations Details, when the body subassembly left the Fisher Plant and entered the Chevrolet Assy. Plant, "The cowl vent panel was removed and placed in the back seat". One of the first steps the Chevy Assy. Plant did was to glue the end seal on the underside of the vent panel, install the front rubber seal, then attach it to the body after the wiper linkage and motor was installed.

Given this “recommended” assembly sequence outlined in the RR, we can assume that the actual assembly process followed is based on what see on survivor, or unrestored “documented” cars.  Assembly sequences often changed during a production run if it saved time, cost, or improved quality and thru-put.  This is what makes our hobby fun, yet challenging.  It’s like trying to find the Holly Grail - it’s elusive.   

The pictures we post of unrestored cars are a great way for us to see what actually happened.  I recommend that we try to also state the VIN number and/or build date to “date stamp” our pictures.

The pics I posted are from a true survivor, 69 Pace Car.  This Camaro’s build date is “03D”, VIN #NOR283787.  Note there is no paint on the back body shims.  Next time I see this car, I’ll look with an inspection mirror at the end seal for evidence of overspray paint, indicating a repaint: however, the owner told me that his car is a survivor.

Here are some interesting questions:  Were the string of 69 Pace Cars treated differently when the stripes were painted? I must assume that the run of 3675 replicas, (we know not all were assembled sequentially or at one time) put a strain on the In-Line repair booth to paint the Z28 stripes.  Painters could not take much time because they also had other Z28’s and SS’s to process in the daily mix.  Did Fisher Body decide to start “fixturing” the cowl vent on the body cowl, quickly mask it off, and then paint stripes?  Did they begin following this modified sequence sometime during the Pace Car builds on other Camaros?

I have been told by some very knowledgeable Camaro restorers in our hobby that Norwood painted some Z28 stripes with the cowl vent panel installed on the body, and the stripe color did overspray onto the body color in the vent well area.  I was told that painters were supposed to use foam to block unsightly overspray from coming out from the front edge of the cowl vent.  Obviously, they did not. Quality was not a big deal then as it is today.  Some painters skipped the foam to get their tasks done faster which gave them more sit time. 

There is evidence (thanks to pictures) that some cowl vent wells were blacked out.  See RamAirDave pics.  There is also evidence that Z28’s built in Van Nuys did a neater job painting stripes and the cowl vent area.  Refer to page 474 in the AIM for the UPC Z28 option, where it states, “Cowl vent grille area will be painted stripe color by Fisher Body”.  I was told that Van Nuys removed the cowl vent and painted the cowl vent well and the top side of the cowl panel, out to the edge that interfaces with the firewall.  This is similar to what is shown in the pics RamAirDave posted.  I have 35MM film pictures of a Van Nuys built, survivor 69 Z28 with the stripe paint work out to the firewall. 

RamAirDave, which plant built your Camaro?  What is the build date VIN number?

This is all great discussion and informative.  I would love to see more pics of survivor cars if anyone out there has any!

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hotrod68
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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2006, 10:20:06 PM »

Dave--the wiper linkage in that pic looks like gray phosphate like my '68 was...now I'M confused! chuckle. Ain't this fun?
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HotRod'68  1968 SS350 coupe undergoing frame-off resto/rod. 386/350/4.11s
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RamAirDave
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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2006, 10:40:30 PM »

Hotrod68:  No, it wasnt phosphate.  Every one that Ive come across was clearly painted.

Dave69x33:  that is an 07A Norwood car
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JohnZ
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2006, 09:45:45 AM »

Here's my original-paint 02D Norwood Z/28; the plenum area below the cowl vent grille was shot with Fathom Green over the white stripe paint; the green has flaked a bit in several areas, and if you look closely you can see white underneath it where it has flaked. The wiper linkage is gloss black, as you'd expect. Many Van Nuys cars show stripe color paint all the way forward to the top of the firewall.

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'69 Z/28
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