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Author Topic: Engine value to 1968 Z28 owner  (Read 1517 times)
Misse
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« on: July 28, 2011, 08:38:14 PM »

I sure would appreciate any advice you all would share with me.  I have the opposite problem as the discussion I have read here.  I own a very nice 68 Z-28.  I am being offered (from the guy who did the restoration) the orginal engine, wheels, and all orginal parts taken off during the restoration for 12K.  I am at a loss for what questions I should be asking and what documentation.  I know I need to ask for pictures of the numbers on the block.  Of the additional parts (besides the engine and wheels) which ones are the most important to the value of the car?
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mopar346
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2011, 09:21:05 PM »

To the OP, let your morals guide you. If you need or want a Z block have them buy an acceptable replacement and trade straight up, if you don't then sell it to them at a fair market value. You never get anywhere for long by taking advantage of others. I don't believe you should give it to them but you shouldn't hold them hostage either it MIGHT speak to your character. What would someone gain by sticking it to somebody a few grand? What's your ethics worth, maybe some can put a price on that but not me. Just my two cents.

Misse, I am somewhat confused by the statement of "removed during restoration" I thought refinishing the original parts WAS a restoration. The engine block and the trans case are the only components that are VIN specific (I believe). The rims and other parts at date coded but not VINed. Obviously the guy with the parts is not ethical otherwise the parts would be at a reasonable price, now if he $12k worth of parts then I retract that statement, but a block, rim and some other parts don't add up for me. The other question may be why did he not return them with the car, true he could have made an agreement to keep them so they properly his. I guess I am just not a fan of hustling people. I would personally make him a reasonable offer for the block or the lot and move on if he passed. I doubt it would add 12k to the value of the car.
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2011, 11:47:27 AM »

To the OP, let your morals guide you. If you need or want a Z block have them buy an acceptable replacement and trade straight up, if you don't then sell it to them at a fair market value. You never get anywhere for long by taking advantage of others. I don't believe you should give it to them but you shouldn't hold them hostage either it MIGHT speak to your character. What would someone gain by sticking it to somebody a few grand? What's your ethics worth, maybe some can put a price on that but not me. Just my two cents.

Misse, I am somewhat confused by the statement of "removed during restoration" I thought refinishing the original parts WAS a restoration. The engine block and the trans case are the only components that are VIN specific (I believe). The rims and other parts at date coded but not VINed. Obviously the guy with the parts is not ethical otherwise the parts would be at a reasonable price, now if he $12k worth of parts then I retract that statement, but a block, rim and some other parts don't add up for me. The other question may be why did he not return them with the car, true he could have made an agreement to keep them so they properly his. I guess I am just not a fan of hustling people. I would personally make him a reasonable offer for the block or the lot and move on if he passed. I doubt it would add 12k to the value of the car.

Misse, welcome to CRG first off! If you know who owned the car during restoration I would quickly discuss with him/her on what the arrangement was and if the person had any knowledge of the parts being kept off the car. Depending on what you find out I would discuss with law enforcement as it could be deemed the same as stealing, again depending on what you find out from the owner. Just makes no sense at all and something seems a little out of wack.....
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
sam
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2011, 02:02:38 PM »

did the previous owner instruct the restorer to remove all that original stuff from the car? If he did, the person getting the restoration on his car did NOT want the parts back?
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Misse
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2011, 04:11:14 PM »

I appreciate all the responses and welcome!  When the car went through the restoration they removed the original engine (I'm not sure why) and put in a 350.  The owner I bought the car from did have the original engine, rims, and parts in his possesion when I bought the car.  The seller and the person that helped him restore the car are friends and the seller sold the engine wheels and parts to him.  Now, a little over a year later, I am being offer to buy the engine, wheels, and "every original part and bolt" for 12K.  I know I need to ask for pictures of the casting#, casting date, and engine code.  I am not experienced in these kinds of negotiations and seller is quite experienced.  I do and would appreciate any advice for what other questions I should be asking and also what would be a fair price?  When I asked of the condition of the engine at this time the response I received was "Engine is fully assembled. Just needs typical valve adjustment before running. If you know anything about the 30/30 z28 motor, it has a solid cam. This valve lash is what needs adjusted.  Very easy to do in or out of the car."
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MyRed67
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2011, 06:35:56 PM »

Welcome Misse, I'm not sure if I missed something here or what.  If the Engine and these other parts were offered to you when you bought the car, and you are interested in them, why did you not purchase them then?   Is there a considerable $$$$ difference?
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1967 Camaro  LOS  11A
Original Engine   Z - Tribute
Mike C.    NW - Illinois
vtfb68
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2011, 07:14:20 PM »

The plot thickens. IMHO I feel this was the plan from the start... to  BLACKMAIL the buyer in the future. You (owner of the matching car) are the only one they can try to squeeze. It's easy for me to say "don't pay more than you would for a non matching 302", but they have you in a tight spot. Were thes parts offered to you durning the purchase?  I hate this type of BS.
 You can decline, But let THEM know you have a "friend" that might want it-(the "friend" can't be squeezed as hard).
 I sure hope this works out FAIR. Keep us posted.
  Good luck,
    Victor
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05C LA RS/SS U2 712 L34 M21 BR
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mopar346
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2011, 08:51:39 PM »

Well, at least it does sound like he came by it legitimately or kinda anway. I sit assembled or rebuild? It rebuilt ask for the specs and receipts, a list of the "other" parts my help with determining the total worth of the parts. If rebuilt I could see 5k for the egnine, not sure on the rest but as mentioned date coded alternators and starters and such go for big money so if might be at least in the ball park. I have an AAR with the original engine I would pay 12k for the original in rebuilt ready to run condition, but they go for more than a 302 in equal condition, plus I have a complete T/A motor rebuilt with a warranty block so I could get my money back quickly. I would not however pay anywhere close to that for the original engine out of my son RS.

And welcome to the board, it was rude of me to miss it the first time. There are some good people here with a lot of knowledge, they even let a Mopar guy hang out without too much bashing (mostly envy). Wink
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Misse
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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2011, 10:21:59 PM »

Thanks again for the responses and the welcome.  In regards to the purchase, I felt like I got a raw deal because in the original accepted offer to purchase it was for the car (as it sat with the 350 engine) plus the original engine and parts, however, when I went to pick up everything, I was only allowed the car as it sat.   I was upset but it was still a steal so I went ahead and bought it.  That is one of the reasons I feel like I am getting it stuck to me now.  I too have wondered if this was designed from the get go.  I hope to e-mail him back tomorrow and try and ask every last question I can think of.  He has let me know that if I do not buy it that with his internet marketing skills he has no doubts he will get every cent of the 12K.  Where besides e-bay do you find these types of private sellers on the internet?  If I did fork over the cash do you think I might get my money out of it if I sold the car later?  Thanks to you all for your knowledge.  I am so green in this area any further comments I would greatly appreciate as well!!
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tom
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 05:20:04 AM »

Misse, Ask the seller for photos of the block casting and stamping numbers. If you get them, post them here and let the experts verify them. There has been a lot of fraud with sellers creating SS or Z models from plain janes, and selling them as the real deal. I would be reluctant to even consider a value without verification.
Welcome to the forum, and god luck.
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69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2011, 05:45:55 AM »

Thanks again for the responses and the welcome.  In regards to the purchase, I felt like I got a raw deal because in the original accepted offer to purchase it was for the car (as it sat with the 350 engine) plus the original engine and parts, however, when I went to pick up everything, I was only allowed the car as it sat.   I was upset but it was still a steal so I went ahead and bought it.  That is one of the reasons I feel like I am getting it stuck to me now.  I too have wondered if this was designed from the get go.  I hope to e-mail him back tomorrow and try and ask every last question I can think of.  He has let me know that if I do not buy it that with his internet marketing skills he has no doubts he will get every cent of the 12K.  Where besides e-bay do you find these types of private sellers on the internet?  If I did fork over the cash do you think I might get my money out of it if I sold the car later?  Thanks to you all for your knowledge.  I am so green in this area any further comments I would greatly appreciate as well!!
Thanks again for the responses and the welcome.  In regards to the purchase, I felt like I got a raw deal because in the original accepted offer to purchase it was for the car (as it sat with the 350 engine) plus the original engine and parts, however, when I went to pick up everything, I was only allowed the car as it sat.   I was upset but it was still a steal so I went ahead and bought it.  That is one of the reasons I feel like I am getting it stuck to me now.  I too have wondered if this was designed from the get go.  I hope to e-mail him back tomorrow and try and ask every last question I can think of.  He has let me know that if I do not buy it that with his internet marketing skills he has no doubts he will get every cent of the 12K.  Where besides e-bay do you find these types of private sellers on the internet?  If I did fork over the cash do you think I might get my money out of it if I sold the car later?  Thanks to you all for your knowledge.  I am so green in this area any further comments I would greatly appreciate as well!!

OK, I own a 68 Z/28 and know enough to be dangerous. First off, he's feeding you a line of BS, as for the engine the person it would be worth the most is you Misse, the owner of the car. But hold on, what if the engine is not really the born with engine and is a re-stamp? If you know what to look for and are knowledgeable great but if not take a picture of the engine pad and post so experts can take a peak at that rascal.  Do you know what you have or not have discussing engine, i.e. distributor, alternator, starter, heads, intake and carb? Other words does the guy have the entire engine with many of the goodies, or just a shortblock?  Things like that orig. distributor can be worth a lot of money so you need to be careful that you get everything he had for that car or he will be selling goodies to others for more profit. Some info might be helpful here as it has a lot of part numbers and info on our restoration. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
mopar346
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2011, 06:14:35 AM »

Where are you located maybe someone here is close enough to help you out.
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Misse
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2011, 03:29:00 PM »

Thanks again for all the information!  You guys are great and I am so fortunate to have found this forum.  68camaroz28 that is a truly awesome documentation of the restoration!  I loved the story with the original owner too.  I wish I even knew what all they did to mine.  I was going to e-mail the seller of the engine and parts a list of questions but I keep thinking of more, so I probably won't get it done until tomorrow.  From what I know about this guy I am only going to get one shot at this.  Mopar I live near Dayton, Ohio and the guy that has the engine and parts is near Columbus, Ohio.  If you know anyone near by that would be fantastic!!  This guy knows I don't know what I should and I'm afraid of being taken advantage of (hence the 12K and me not being sure I am getting everything I should), so I will definitely take your advice and once I get pictures post them here for all of your opinions.  Again, thanks to you all and any further advice, it is very much appreciated!
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mopar346
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2011, 07:31:02 AM »

As bazarre as it sounds, I am from Florida but I will be in Columbus the week end of the 12th for the Mopar Nationals. I could probably make some time to go with you. Although I am not as up on Chevrlets as a lot on here I am very familiar with collecting numbers and knowling what to look for. I should be able to give you Thursday the 11th if you can arrange it. There maybe someone closer and more knowledgeable that can go as well.
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68camaroz28
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2011, 04:25:34 PM »

Thanks again for all the information!  You guys are great and I am so fortunate to have found this forum.  68camaroz28 that is a truly awesome documentation of the restoration!  I loved the story with the original owner too.  I wish I even knew what all they did to mine.  I was going to e-mail the seller of the engine and parts a list of questions but I keep thinking of more, so I probably won't get it done until tomorrow.  From what I know about this guy I am only going to get one shot at this.  Mopar I live near Dayton, Ohio and the guy that has the engine and parts is near Columbus, Ohio.  If you know anyone near by that would be fantastic!!  This guy knows I don't know what I should and I'm afraid of being taken advantage of (hence the 12K and me not being sure I am getting everything I should), so I will definitely take your advice and once I get pictures post them here for all of your opinions.  Again, thanks to you all and any further advice, it is very much appreciated!

Thanks for the kind words on our restoration. What you can do is start to check to see what you have and that way you know what he may have. What rally wheels do you have (check code under trim ring)? Check everything on the engine like starter, alternator, intake, carb, distributor, exhaust manifolds, etc. This preliminary work will also assist with anyone trying to help you out. Then post the what you have found and this CRG gang will help you. Knowing as much as possible is important and worth the time spent now.....
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
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