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Author Topic: OK guys educate me.  (Read 2333 times)
mopar346
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« on: July 31, 2011, 09:08:55 PM »

As some of you may know we have a new member that is being offered the original motor and some other parts for his Z. I plan to assist him in verifying the numbers and date codes. I am familiar with documenting Mopars but am not completely up to date on Camaros. What we need is date ranges for engine parts and accesories for his build date. It would also be helpful to know the part numbers for the major components i.e. heads, carb, dist, alt, waterpump, starter, and the likes. As you post I will begin to chart it have us a cheat sheet when we walk in. If there is a CRG page (which I am sure there is) feel free to derict us there.

Misse we need the build date which will be on the data tag above the brake booster and will be in a month/week format like 12C, Dec third week.

Thanks in advance to all that helps, Kevin
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mopar346
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2011, 09:37:31 PM »

Here's the start of a spread sheet, I will add the other parts as we get a list, but what else should I add.

Part      Casting Number      Date Code      Assembly Date

Engine Block                  

Heads                  

Intake                  

Exhaust Manifolds                  

Carburetor                  

Distributor                  

Alternator                  

Starter                  

Waterpump                  

Powersteering Pump                  

Pulleys                  



Thermostat Housing                  

Timing Cover                  
                  
Timing Chain Gears                  
                  
Crank                  

Rods                  

Pistons                  

Rockers                  

Cam                  
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Hot302
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2011, 09:51:40 PM »

Hey Kevin,  I think it's great what your doing helping out Misse with his Camaro. I'm not that familiar with the 68 Z28 but I'm sure there are plenty of others on this site that are. I wish you guys the best of luck and I hope it all turns out good. Please keep us posted with your progress.
                                                                              Rick
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Rick
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crobjones2
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2011, 06:50:40 AM »

Kevin
Not being a 68 guy, I can only make a couple educated guesses. Please correct me if I am wrong
Block -3914678
heads- 3917291
Carb list 4053
intake-3917610
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Chris
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2011, 10:02:43 AM »

You should find everything you need at the CRG (Camaro Research Group) website. Good luck, hope all works well for you.,
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mopar346
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2011, 07:30:29 PM »

Thanks folks keep it coming.

Hot302, thank you for the kind words, but it's just my turn. We have all had the assistance of others to get where we are.
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68Zproject
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 12:34:32 AM »

Alt. 1100814

Eng. cast. 3914678

carb  3923289-DZ  List 4053

head cast. 3917291

dist.  1111266 (early) or 1111467

R exh cast. 3872730
L exh cast. 3892683

intake cast. 3917610

PB booster 8515 (early) or 9078

MC 5460346 "WT"

trans. cast main 3925660
tail ext. 3857584
Side cover 3884685

Therm housing  cast. 3827369  B4

WP cast. 3859326

crank cast 3923279

cam cast 3849347

starter 1108367

It would be best to know the build date, but most items should be a month or two before the car's build date and all engine components have to be dated before the assembly date.
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68Z28
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 12:43:31 PM »

Crank pulley 3858533 (double) 

If power steering also add single groove 3916385 at the crank. 

The pulley on the power steering pump would be 3873847

On a personal note 20 years ago my dad tried buying back the '70 LS6 Chevelle he bought new.  He had ended up with the original engine block after the local dealer tried scrapping it due to a "casting issue" that never checked out.  (The CE block was built into an LS7 that I still own today - 2nd design open chamber aluminum heads and all.)  However the guy who now owned the car wanted to buy the block.  Neither would give and my dad then realized this block was no more valuable to him than any other 454 block.  While he was offered $10,000 for the block he made a deal for a lesser amount because he felt it was more reasonable.  He also threw in all the original paperwork including the check he paid with.  You know your Z28 is worth more with the original block.  I only hope you are dealing with someone who will treat you right.   
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Misse
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 05:51:26 PM »

Thanks to you all for your help and well wishes and especially thanks to Mopar!  I wish the seller of the engine and parts had a quarter of the character that you all have.  The build date that I found on the Cowl tag was 04C.  The VIN# is 124378N416433.  I am going to try and take a picture of the Cowl Tag and post it here.  I have not e-mailed the seller back yet.
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Gramps69Z
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 07:30:48 PM »

Buy Jerry's book. http://www.z28camaro.com/publications.html
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Captain John Wykoff
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 07:34:57 PM »

Great answer...you'll have all the answers to the above questions at your finger tips!

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68Zproject
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 07:50:52 PM »


I was going to say that too, but I got tired of looking up all those numbers and I was done.
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68Z28
mopar346
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 07:59:54 PM »

Not a bad idea guys, but do we have time to get it before next week? I am leaving for Ohio on Friday or Saturday so Misse would need to get it shipped to her and that would not allow me time to study it properly. Is it available electronically?

Thanks for all who have given info, it is greatly appreciated by both of us.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 08:05:16 PM »

Have someone PM you with Jerry's contact # and have it shipped overnight. There isn't a lot of studying required. I have a copy and its all spelled out.

Did you or Misse ever get a pic of the engine pad?
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mopar346
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 09:18:13 PM »

Not a bad idea, no photos yet to my knowledge, this guy is being a real gem. I just hope he doesn't turn on her for no reason and shut the deal down. I can see him doing it if we say anything negative. I'll be on my good behavior.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 09:34:51 PM »

If a seller has the correct matching #'s engine for a particular car there is no reason why he would not be willing to share the information (PICS). In fact it would be to his advantage. If he is not willing to share the information...this would be my first red flag. I hope you guys don't go through all this trouble just to find the engine you are questioning was never born with the car.

Maybe its just me, but there is no way I would go through all this effort unless I had some legitimate pics well in advance of the trip. You are certainly one of a kind...hat's off to you & I hope it all works out.
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mopar346
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2011, 09:40:57 PM »

Definitely one of a kind, but remember I am going to be in Columbus for the Nationals anyway so I'm out nothing, taking a day to go look at parts, that's my kinda fun. My wife will want a down day to read and relax without me and my son so everyone wins. Not to mention me and my son will both learn more in the process that will help us. I had requested something Camaro related to do on vacation and Misse was kind enough to help me out, so I see no down side here for me. I hope it works out for her.
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mopar346
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2011, 10:31:50 PM »

Can anyone shut me or post a picture of engine casting date so I can study it. In fact any pictures of numbers related to engine or muncie would be appreciated. I have read up on it on CRG but could find a picture of the date casting.

Thanks
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2011, 03:35:01 AM »

Can anyone shut me or post a picture of engine casting date so I can study it. In fact any pictures of numbers related to engine or muncie would be appreciated. I have read up on it on CRG but could find a picture of the date casting.

There's a photo of an engine casting date (E-3-8) in this Ebay listing...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Corvette-Small-Block-327ci-3914678-Dated-E-3-8-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f7cd3e2dQQitemZ300510166573QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Paul
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mopar346
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2011, 06:38:46 AM »

Thanks Paul, trying to prepare myself.
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Kelley W King
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2011, 08:21:39 AM »

Man, I did not know that 68 327 blocks with no vin or assembly date were so rare. Maybe I can pull up the one I anchor my boat to.
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mopar346
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2011, 08:30:16 AM »

Well, unfortunately my trip to Coolumbus came and went without this guy giving Elizabeth a date to see the engine and parts. Someone in the area will have to step up when and if he allows her to see it. I was really hoping this would/will work out for her. The Nats were a blast and I got a few good parts and had Jeg's customer build (cut) a full cage for Cody's Jeep. Anyone in the area should go to Heath for the cruise next year, only saw one Brown 69 SS and only saw it once. There were a fair number of brand Xs so all are welcome and appreciated.

Good luck Elizabeth.

See ya
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maroman
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2011, 09:22:15 AM »

Mopar, you sound like a standup guy trying to help. Sounds like this guy wants to take full advantage of the situation. If this forum was the HAMB he'd be paid a visit, and he probably wouldn't like it.
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Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2011, 01:17:18 PM »

remember if the VIN stamp looks like it wasn't gang stamped... it is because on some if not all 68's it wasn't.
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James
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GI JOE
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« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2011, 05:37:30 PM »

Its great to see CRG members helping another Camaro driver out.   I have missed some of the posts on Missie's car and I assume it is a 68 Z28 without the original motor.

1) Has anyone verified this is a real 68 Z28?

2) How did they conclude or verify this?

3) I own a 04B 68 L78 and will gladly help when I can but I must know this is a real deal Z28...

4) I suggest the approach to this is to go see the engine, take multiple photos of the engine, close ups of the stamps, cast date, block number etc...  and post here for verification before any money changes hands.   

5) and IMHO Jerry's Z28 books are a must have...

Good luck,   GI JOe

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Misse
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« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2011, 07:44:27 PM »

A huge thanks to everyone for your help and in educating me!  Especiall to Mopar who went above and beyond!  It has been a real education since the orginal post of the value of the original engine to the matching car owner.  I just wanted to give ya'll an update that I went to see the orginal engine today after many e-mails with the seller back and forth.  The first thing I went to verify was the stamping number on the engine block.  When the seller saw what I was trying to verify he told me that the previous owner had the engine rebuilt in 1978 and when they rebuilt the engine the stamping number with partial VIN was removed.  I wish he would have let me know this in the many e-mails sent back and forth, but it does explain why he refused to send the pictures.  All the other numbers I verified on the engine did match but after my education here and from Jerry MacNeish's book I understand that the stamping number iwth partial VIN is what proves it is a 68 Z-28.  I did not bother to disassemble it to verify the crank.  It also did not have the orginal air cleaner assembly, nor did he have every orginal nut and bolt as he claimed.  He did have the muncie shifter, Rally wheels, clutch fan, and a few other small parts.  All in all I did not see how he could be asking 12K without the correct stamping.  I did not discuss the price with hiim just thanked him for his time and said I would be in touch.  All in all I am so glad I found this forum and your exstesive knoweldge.  Thanks again for all of your time and efforts, I truly appreciate it!!
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mopar346
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« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2011, 08:01:01 PM »

We all share your disappointment. I would also say you were too critical of your knowledge and skill from the beginning. You knew one of the most important points that many experts don't know or have forgotten. You knew when to raise your hand and ask for help. That is no small point and we should never forget how.


Good luck with the car and your search part the correct parts.
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68Zproject
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« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2011, 10:48:11 PM »

We all share your disappointment. I would also say you were too critical of your knowledge and skill from the beginning. You knew one of the most important points that many experts don't know or have forgotten. You knew when to raise your hand and ask for help. That is no small point and we should never forget how.

And she knew when to walk away.  Cheers.
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68Z28
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