Author Topic: Tranny Swap Issues  (Read 9019 times)

mikecio1

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Tranny Swap Issues
« on: June 27, 2011, 09:21:06 PM »
Hello all, this seems to be the place to ask all those questions that other look at you dumb for asking  :-[

Here is my issue.

I have a 67 rs. The car originally had a SB and manual transmission. Before I got the car about 10 or so years ago the person pulled that drive train out and installed a BB and a 350 tranny.
I decided that I am going to leave the BB in put replace the th350 with a muncie 4speed. I got the pedals in today and went to install the z-bar.
It seems the (BB)Z-Bar is about 1/4 to 1/2 too long.
I checked to make sure I had the correct bar and I do.
I have heard things about motor mount brackets being different sizes and z-bar sizes ? ???
Any suggestions, ideas or theorys?

Anything would be appriciated
Thanks
Mike

1968RSZ28

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 09:30:49 PM »
Mike,

Do you know what transmission crossmember is in the car?  Small block and big block crossmembers are different.  Sounds like you might have the original small block crossmember.

Read this...   http://www.camaros.org/trans.shtml#Crossmembers

Paul

vtfb68

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 09:40:10 PM »
Mike,
 The motor mounts are also different. Big blocks are offset to the pass side. check both motor & trans mounts. The small block mounts will fit but the driverside will be too cramped for P.S. or headers.
  VT
05C LA RS/SS U2 712 L34 M21 BR
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"In the pursuit of accuracy"

mikecio1

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2011, 11:25:16 PM »
VT, the drivers side headers have been modified (beat the heck out of ) to fit the drivers side header next to the steering box. The motor mounts look the same on both sides.
Would they have been able to mount a BB motor up to SB engine mounts?  ???

Paul, it it the original SB one. from what I understand the SB manual mount would fit the th350 they installed.
If I get the BB engine mounts I need the BB crossmember because the engine will be off set?


Stingr69

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 03:39:39 PM »
BB engines are offset to the passenger side a little bit. The BB motor stands are different and would push the engine to the passenger side. Crossmembers are different, shifter mounting bracket and linkage are also different so the stick still ends up in the same place in the console.

You can continue to use the small block parts and fight the differences as is now OR go find the big block parts: crossmember, motor stands, mounts, bellcrank, shifter bracket, linkage etc. and swap them all out.

The starter, clutch, flywheel and bellhousing all need to have the same application in order to fit and work right but they can all be from any one application SB or BB. You can not mix and match these items.

-Mark

mikecio1

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 04:48:11 PM »
I have ordered all the BB parts to do it right.
The car does not have a console so the shifter just comes out of the boot on the floor, Moving it over a 1/2 inch does not look like it will be an issure.
Thanks
Mike

1968RSZ28

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2011, 05:52:39 PM »
Mike, please let us know how it turns out.

Paul

mikecio1

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2011, 06:49:26 PM »
I will Paul.
I cant wait to have it up and running!

mikecio1

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2011, 01:30:42 PM »
Pedals are in after having to find a new mount for them.
The engine is lifted to install the new frame mounts.
Updates to follow.


mikecio1

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 12:03:16 PM »
The 4 speed swap is done.The recap is....
The car was originally a sb manual car, turned into a bb auto car. The mission was to install a 4 speed muncie. When installing the z bar for the clutch I discovered there was not enough room. After investigation and some help (CRG site and forum) I discovered that BB man trans cars had a different set of engine frame mounts. They moved the motor over about an inch this made room for the z-bar and the headers.
I called my contact at Ricks Camaro/Ecklers and we made a parts list. Engine Mounts, BB tranny crossmember (cause the holes are an inch to the pass side) and all the other goodies that went with it.
As you can see from the pics it was very time consuming but we finally got it all installed and it worked just fine. However instead of a stock shifter I used a Hurst Competition which moved the shifter over about an inch, so to my dis like I had to trim about an inch and a half to the tunnel in order to use reverse.
If you have any questions now is the time to ask me while it fresh in my head. I need to order the correct shifter boot, the one I have is way to tall. It makes the stick look short.
http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm295/mikecio1/4%20speed%20install/

Sauron327

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 01:06:50 PM »
I don't remember the Hurst numbers required off the top of my head. But you did not have to cut the tunnel. 7's and 8's use the same stock shifter hole for auto and manual trannys.

mikecio1

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2011, 01:18:23 PM »
I don't remember the Hurst numbers required off the top of my head. But you did not have to cut the tunnel. 7's and 8's use the same stock shifter hole for auto and manual trannys.

I double checked with Ricks and I had purchased the correct Hurst kit for 67-68.
If I would have ordered the Muncie Shifter kit no cutting would be required. I can still center the boot so it looks like its in the stock location.
Either way its done now.

mikecio1

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2011, 12:46:01 AM »
I don't remember the Hurst numbers required off the top of my head. But you did not have to cut the tunnel. 7's and 8's use the same stock shifter hole for auto and manual trannys.

I double checked with Ricks and I had purchased the correct Hurst kit for 67-68.
If I would have ordered the Muncie Shifter kit no cutting would be required. I can still center the boot so it looks like its in the stock location.
Either way its done now.

You had me thinking and I checked some more. You were right I could have found a Hurst off set. I was misinformed by sales. I should have researched more. I will be ordering the correct one, but before i do I am going to just try and find the bracket that makes it offset.
Thanks

Stingr69

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2011, 08:03:55 PM »
I saw your other thread. The bracket part that you linked in the other thread (that Heartbeat City is selling) works ONLY for the OEM '69 Hurst shifter - not for the aftermarket Hurst shifter. The shifter you have now is probably for a "universal" application and it is causing you fitment issues.

I just did some checking and the shifter parts availabillity situation has gotten bad. Hurst has combined kits and eliminated many of the parts you used to be able to buy individually.

It just isn't 1968 anymore.  ;)

-Mark.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 08:21:09 PM by Stingr69 »

Stingr69

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Re: Tranny Swap Issues
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2011, 08:31:00 PM »
Mike,
Do you have "studs and nuts" holding the 3 shifter levers on the side of the transmission or are they all held on with bolts? The bolt-on levers style was a '69 and up Muncie setup and the studs and nuts was the 68 and earlier style.

If you have the studs and nuts, the '68 Camaro Hurst shifter may be right for you. If you have the bolt-on levers the '69 Hurst setup is what you want. The kits have changed a little recently and the stuff they are selling today is much more "universal fit".  The Big Block shifter mounting bracket used to be different from the small block mounting bracket and the linkage was all different.  I have no idea how well they fit now.

Hurst has made it "easy" for people in a bad way. It's a shame.

-Mark.