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| | |-+  Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
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Author Topic: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.  (Read 53847 times)
Jon Mello
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« Reply #240 on: April 22, 2014, 05:58:26 PM »

Mike, I was glad to be able to save/repair your photo links as they are a very valuable part of this thread.

That's nice that you've found a serviceable Firebird body to use for a replica of Titus' 1970 Firebird car. I never understood the (apparently) purposefully hideous design of the rear flares on that car but if you're going to make an authentic replica, you've got to stay true to how it really was.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #241 on: April 22, 2014, 09:38:26 PM »

Quarter-panel challenged. I noticed it's not running the T/A shaker hood scoop. Was that not approved by the SCCA?
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group/7
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« Reply #242 on: April 22, 2014, 10:18:29 PM »

the titus firebird, and the jim hall chaparral camaros had to run without front & rear spoilers, and no hood scoop or front fender vents on the firebirds, because there were not enough street cars produced with that equipment for them to be homologated (legal) I've seen photos of the hall camaros at laguna with a small '68-'69 style spoiler in practice. these had to be removed for the race. without that aero stuff I think they lost a second or two per lap. hope I got the facts right ? maybe jon could chime in here.

mike group/7

 
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #243 on: April 23, 2014, 08:27:38 AM »

Those items were only off the cars for the first race at Laguna Seca. After that, SCCA felt that enough examples had been built for them to be considered legal.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #244 on: April 23, 2014, 09:06:44 AM »

there was a special order COPO 9796 done to get a larger 3 piece spoiler for the 1970 Camaro

quote from Camaro site

"In 1970 and early into 1971 the standard rear spoiler was a low profile, 1 piece spoiler. There was a very limited (COPO 9796) 3 piece spoiler patterned (or "borrowed" from) after the Pontiac Trans Am available in 1970. Few people knew of its availability. There were an estimated 500 Camaros equipped with the copo spoiler.

This 3 piece rear spoiler became the standard spoiler in mid 1971. "

Chevy was also working on a cowl induction hood for 1970 but cancelled it

I have the 1970 prototype CI hood. I bought it from Bill Grumpy Jenkins who got it from Chevy in 1970
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« Reply #245 on: April 23, 2014, 09:43:44 PM »

Thanks for the great info guys. Mike K., sorry to get off topic.
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Swede70
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« Reply #246 on: April 24, 2014, 05:52:01 PM »

...no worries at all,

From what I could discern from the David Friedman collection/Laguna Seca event images it appears that like Chaparral, T-G Racing appeared at Laguna Seca 1970 tech. with all the factory spoilers fitted to their entry.  Upon tech. refusal to recognize the same as homologated, off came everything.  It seems T-G must have replaced the front fenders for the air extractor vents vanished entirely, although they did stop short of replacing the hood stamping for only a plug fabricated on site seems to occupy the space of the shaker. I'm pleased I'll not have to deal with disguising seams, etc. for such would be that much harder to reproduce in scale.

Given it was an open area, T-G tried to fabricate an aluminum front spoiler that seemed large, ungainly, and somewhat suspect for strength even as it bore a pair of strengthening ribs describing an 'X' in the center.  It appears that this rough spoiler may have been employed in qualifying.  Soon this hasty addition came off, whereas the team settled for retaining the center element of the stock front spoiler when race time arrived.

As for myself, I expect to have to reproduce holes on the deck lid and quarter panels where the rear spoiler would have been affixed, and perhaps add a character line to the center of the shaker hood plug if photo images might be found to confirm the existence of such detail. Kind thanks and know I appreciate all visitors and comments whereever such banter might go...

Mike K.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #247 on: April 24, 2014, 10:52:13 PM »

Chevy was also working on a cowl induction hood for 1970 but cancelled it

I have the 1970 prototype CI hood. I bought it from Bill Grumpy Jenkins who got it from Chevy in 1970

Joe, I remember the hood being on ebay and I remember saving pictures of it at the time but can't seem to find them now. I have to assume Jenkins had more than one of these hoods as I thought the hood you have is unmolested, whereas the hood Jenkins had on his Pro Stock car got cut for the tunnel ram and hood scoop.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #248 on: April 25, 2014, 05:34:47 AM »

Jon, there was only one prototype hood. Grump didn't use it on his race car. He used it on his street 70 Camaro that was set up to look like his race car. The street car was a straight bumper car that was used for shows and promotions in 1970. The hood was removed before the car was sold.

Grump was at Chevy looking at engine parts, saw the hood as it was going to be scraped , asked Chevy about it, and it was sent to him with a truck load of engine parts.

The hood is all steel and was hand made at the Chevy prototype shop
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #249 on: April 25, 2014, 11:51:09 AM »

Thanks for the clarification, Joe.  Nice pic of the hood.
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« Reply #250 on: April 30, 2014, 01:05:33 PM »

Greetings,

Gathering data on the '70 Autodynamics Challenger chassis to inform that effort, whereas a bit more performed here to share now.  All drip rail trim has been flattened and removed, the trailing edge trim has been removed from hood, the C-pillars visually thinned, while door handles from the '72 Road Legends Pontiac Trans Am have been added.  '73 ERTL Trans Am grille surrounds have been added (a bit thinner and better shaped versus the poorly-rendered '70 tool), while these were then combined with the '70 pattern grilles proper. All of this will 'brighten up' with paint as only standard argent grilles were run by T-G reflecting the humble origins of the 350 CID automatic street cars from which they built up their Trans-Am entries.

Continuing, longer exhaust dumps have fabricated, whereas fill panels for the front turn signals fabricated and set in place.  The headlamp pocket fill panels required more work, with a spare shell being employed as a mold of sorts complete with the use of clay 'donuts' around the headlamp pockets to ensure I'd have enough material to reshape to suit my needs across the top of each. A more pronounced front air dam has been fitted that too has been mildly reshaped, whereas the awful license plate location pegs and associated holes and bumps otherwise visible on the front of the model have mercifully been erased. 

Lastly, front flare detail borrowed from my Gray Ghost effort has been reemployed here to begin upon the modest flares that crumpled for contact not so much with other competitors, but rather for a likely misjudgment of how much wheel travel/space was required.  Inspecting period photos suggests T-G Racing had trouble up front right on both sides right across the race weekend.  As for my own, the flares start large, and for adjustments shrink to something approaching what it is I desire for contour and bulk.  Kind regards to the board...





Mike K.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #251 on: May 01, 2014, 11:35:09 AM »

Mike, the removal of the drip rail trim is a quite an improvement. The turn signal covers would need to be slimmed down and it seems as though the outer ends of the front air dam need to protrude further forward, to my eye. Overall, looking good and thanks for the update.
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Swede70
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« Reply #252 on: May 04, 2014, 12:55:22 PM »

Not much to see...

Front flares much reduced in size (notice how tiny they are in the bottommost reference photo), rear flares rebuilt reflecting a need to add more bulk plus allow for the shape of the same to blend into the tumblehome area aft of the rear wheel arch.  Regarding the rear flares, final shaping is needed before the same are cast to backstop my efforts prior to applying the same to the shell, with specific reference to adding material to the top of the flare(s) to ensure the taper into the body is wholly done with filler. I'd also like to thin the flares a bit internally, perhaps reducing the overall thickness by two-thirds if at all possible.

Continuing then, the front valance panel has been filed to open up the vents just below the grille, whereas the turn signal indicator fill panels have been replaced for repeating the technique of what was done with the headlamps; i.e. a spare shell was used as a mold with resin poured into the resultant pockets to actively redefine what a 'fill panel' might be.  Tedious this, but apparently the only way to go.

Beneath the hood (and in uncomfortable proximity to those terrible dog leg hinges) may be seen a set of Lane '68 Firebird valve covers (the finned cast aluminum models employed by T/G came later in the season), a scratch built Edelbrock ED4 intake, a GMP Trans-Am Camaro Holley carburetor, and a recycled '67 GMP Trans-Am Camaro air cleaner that was otherwise homeless for my efforts to scratch build a '67-model single 4BBL cowl induction air cleaner and associated ductwork.  A cast resin GMP Trans-Am Camaro distributor can just be made out.  Thanks and kind regards...

Mike K.





M.K.
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Swede70
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« Reply #253 on: May 16, 2014, 02:18:02 PM »

Greetings,

Nothing profound, but some work to report.  Doubts concerning my ability to create a character line across the top of the shaker hood insert led me to cut up another hood to substitute in material already bearing said character line - a success this.  Seams were visible on the hood run at Laguna Seca, so what is seen here is actually quite good all things considered.  

Continuing on then, the heater core 'bubble' on firewall was removed, a flat plate substituted atop the same space, and an expansion tank fitted w/cap and mount was fabricated and fitted, whereas a pair of GMP Trans-Am Camaro upper control arms have been added reflecting a previous casting effort to capture said detail for reuse.  The upper mounts for the front suspension have been cut off and resited inwards to afford a bit of negative camber - this a near-invisible mod.  

A Lane '68 Firebird alternator has been added, as has the power steering pump found on the same tool.  T/G employed an odd system that provided hydraulic boost for both steering and brakes; i.e. a curiosity this. Lane '68 engine pulleys were cast and cut to reuse the detail on the face of each here atop the stock ERTL pulleys which are crude to say the least.  A '70 GMP GTO Judge will afford this project a radiator, whereas a cast resin GMP Trans-Am Camaro Harrison oil cooler too will be fitted.  The radiators are not seen across the photo images provided, although I do look forward to creating the 'quick change' radiator mount as seen in a single period photo.    

The rear track has been expanded, although no serious work has yet been done on the rear axle assembly which calls for much additional work.  A fuel cell housing, also GMP Trans-Am Camaro-sourced, has been fitted as well as what I took to be tie down points for inspection of the Phillip Larsen image telegraphing such detail.  Some round stock was used for the base of each set against the fuel cell housing proper, whereas the burgundy parts are simply beads that were set in place with glue and with the use of a metal dental pick.  

A new air dam casting was obtained from a friend and more carefully shaped, a set of finned '72 Yat Ming/Road Legends valve covers were cast, cleaned up for oil cap detail erasure (i.e. the sanding down of the caps, and then for dragging a razor saw atop the same detail to match the upraised fin pattern), with the results effectively doubled up to lengthen each to match the cylinder head dimensions. Funny to relate that the effort made on the valve covers will be pulled and simple pressed steel models substituted for I seriously suspect that such is what was run at the first event.  A second mid-season T/G Firebird Trans Am will in time wear these.  Continuing, vents were created on the top of each valve cover looking up and forward, whereas also seen is a washer bottle (square this) that I presume might have been employed as a puke tank or some such.  

Hurst-Airheart hub bearing detail (i.e. shape of the cap) is seen on the rear wheels, whereas the front bearing caps are simply oil breathers reemployed to suggest the shape of the former.  It seems like so little, but a bunch of work in total.  Anything mentioned as cast has generated a mold, hence bits to be added to a product line to come.  Thanks and kind regards to the community...

Mike K.





M.K.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #254 on: May 20, 2014, 08:35:33 AM »

Thanks for the update, Mike. The hood is a definite improvement with the new insert. Hard to tell all the other little improvements from the pictures but it all sounds good. Nice work!
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Jon Mello
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