Author Topic: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.  (Read 159311 times)

Swede70

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #135 on: June 09, 2012, 09:21:38 PM »
Greetings,


Pause to gather research material on Gray Ghost bears considerable fruit, hence substantive progress to report soon.  

-

Playing about with spare wheels and tires, here then is the basis for a '70 Vic Elford Chaparral Camaro in late season spec.  Less common 1:18 ERTL '70 Camaro Pro Stock shell displays standard (versus RS) front end, whereas doors absent mounting holes for side mirrors might be noticed.  A 1:18 '68 Firebird will likely afford me a chrome rectangular outside mirror to fit instead.  Pleasing to examine, although rear spoiler ends in particular will require much work.  Kind regards to the board...

Mike K.





M.K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:18:52 PM by Jon Mello »

Jon Mello

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3923
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #136 on: June 12, 2012, 10:08:50 PM »
Mike, it's a little hard to tell. I'm wondering if the roof on this ERTL model is a little more squashed or flattened in comparison to the previous 2nd-gen cars you have showed us (Lane models, I believe). Is that the case or is it just an optical illusion?
Jon Mello
CRG

Swede70

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #137 on: June 16, 2012, 04:33:18 PM »
Greetings,

Indeed, the '70 1/2 ERTL Camaro seems less happy in profile as contrasted to their earlier '70 1/2 Firebird tool.  Not a part is shared between them - a typical phenomenon one encounters with regards to scale models.  Where in theory the scale product of various manufacturers directing their energies to the same topic would produce precisely interchangeable subassemblies, etc., the fact of the matter is that four or five manufacturers can apply themselves to the same topic and come up with four or five mildly incorrect variations on the theme.  On a previous 1:25 MPC '70 Titus Firebird project I owned, indeed I opted to shave off the molded in upper door chrome trim which surely helped to deemphasize what seemed wrong here.  Likely back to the Gray Ghost project for the moment, although updates of all work will be afforded short of overloading the board with my scale diversions!  Kind thanks to all, and indeed, feedback of most any kind is very much appreciated.

-

Happy to relate opportunity to inspect actual Trans-Action Gray Ghost afforded to me, whereas now I have about seventy pictures to guide the build.  The car was fairly near to where it is I call home, while with some application contact was established and an invitation made to see the largely original car up close.  A great thrill as the reader can imagine.  Very kind thanks to the current owner, discretion maintained.  

New update photos to come, with details being corrected to reflect new input.  I halted the underhood panelwork for I couldn't determine quite what was there for the limitations of my research.  The rear bulkhead has already been refabricated, while rocker trim holes have been created for the employment of a pin vise.  I hope to employ tiny insect mounting pins to reproduce the trio of boltheads seen on the front bumper ends, whereas holes for the same have already been created. Thanks everyone...

Mike K.



...a respray in evidence and powder-coated aluminum Minilite Sports fitted.  It now houses a 366 NASCAR block and crank, but given what could have been lost, it nevertheless remains very close to '71 spec.



...just a touch-in as to where I stopped.

  

M.K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:20:11 PM by Jon Mello »

Jon Mello

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3923
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #138 on: June 17, 2012, 05:01:15 AM »
Mike, that was a wonderful opportunity given to you to be able to see the Pontiac in person and photograph all of the various details. A great benefit to assist you in completing the model in the most accurate way possible. I really like that ducted air intake built into the underside of the hood and I see you have already incorporated the slot in the firewall of your model that will match up to the underhood duct.

I don't work with models anywhere close to the extent that you do but I have taken notice of the fact that most all of them have "mildly incorrect variations", like you say. Frustrating to say the least, but it is nice when you do see some of the rare instances when somebody actually got the details right.
Jon Mello
CRG

MO

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 389
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #139 on: June 19, 2012, 02:08:45 AM »
Mike...that is an amazing talent!

Swede70

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #140 on: June 19, 2012, 04:09:48 PM »
Thanks for the kind notice - the sense of community found here and the validation afforded means much to me,

Revised Chaparral Camaro shell for the trim around the side windows has been filed flat, whereas some contour work done to the extent of raising the opening somewhat. The trim atop the doors has been filed down for good measure, the aforementioned 1:18 Lane '68 Firebird side mirror has been added, whereas an initial late-season front spoiler is taking shape.  Not quite made of 'unbreakable Lexan', although if clear material is needed, transparent vinyl sheet may be so-employed.  Cast-in exterior door handles underwhelmed and were ground down to be replaced with 1:18 Welly '72 Trans Am items.  Exhaust dumps have been fabricated, although these are basic and could stand to be created anew and better still.  Lastly, the headliner cast-in between the front and rear screen has been cut out, this effort allowing more light to shine through while cleaning up the appearance of the interior.  Sadly no 1:18 Lane-tooled '70 1/2 Camaro was ever done, whereas the 1:18 Franklin Mint effort (a rare foray into 1:18 scale for them) was badly rendered and hence back to the ERTL tool I felt I had to go.  





-

The Gray Ghost Tempest now has features a rudimentary cowl seal, the firewall has been pulled of holes for cast-in and ground-off detail, while a main roll hoop with an X brace and cross bar for supporting the shoulder harness is seen.  The passenger's side interior floor now has what is intended to replicate a fiberglass insert to overlay and disguise floor pan corrosion, whereas the rear bulkhead is of a new shape and spec. given fresh insight for my most recent visit to the topic itself.  A wiper motor and brake master cylinder is seen on the firewall of the model, whereas the panels previous fabricated stand to be refine further.  A rough radiator support with radiator and two Bell helicopter war surplus oil coolers connected tandem on either ends of the radiator core/matrix are seen, but also stand to be refined for insight gleaned from the visit.  Rockers now have trim clip installation holes, whereas axle shaft ends are now seen within the center of the rear Minilites.  And finally, the front spoiler, looking as butch as the rest of the car, has been fabricated again and discreetly added.  Thanks and kind regards to everyone here.





Mike K.  
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:23:05 PM by Jon Mello »

Swede70

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #141 on: June 29, 2012, 06:47:21 PM »
Greetings,

With curiousity too great in wake of visit to inspect the actual Gray Ghost, I felt compelled to seek out a 1:18 Sun Star 1964 Pontiac GTO having never made an inspection of their tool.  The bulk of my efforts concerning the Gray Ghost are best realized in 1:25th scale for the chassis detail possible there in particular is far better, although 1:18 (or larger still) often results in a scale replica that may in some respects impress more.  My only and admittedly inadequate defense concerning my capacity to focus is that I haven't many projects in total.  

I'm not sure about reproducing flares for this model for the body is reproduced in an atypical fashion that does not lend itself to aggressive metalwork.  In particular, the entire roof structure is plastic for Sun Star decided that a convertible could be produced off of the same tool if this was so.  Given that white metal/Zamac can fatigue and crack, I may go in the direction of 'simple' and either overlay flarework onto the largely untouched shell, or deem it prudent not to reproduce them in any fashion.  Note that the GTO-specific faux hood scoops have been largely ground away.  The second of the two 1:18 Lane '67-'68 Firebird engines already rests under the hood, with the first inside the '70 1/2 Trans Am seen further up the thread.  Tires to be cast with better proportioned fronts in particular.  The same will be marked as Goodyears versus those witnessed here that bear Firestone identification.

What is seen below is a 'before' photo image of the 1:18 Sun Star 1964 Pontiac GTO tool, and a second which depicts the same less chrome trim, interior parts, and the engine that had been molded in part onto the chassis.  Just another in a seemingly endless series of mockups, but again I confess that I was very curious as to what might be done and felt I had to know.  Interior panelwork on the 1:25th version up next, with the dashboard mounts and support structure for the trim panels my goal. Thanks and kind regards...




...a nice if basic tool, and now growing a bit rare on the secondhand market.




...same model, hood scoops seen ground down less inserts to disguise front extent of same w/trim, a very basic 'what if' exercise.

Mike K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:27:10 PM by Jon Mello »

Jon Mello

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3923
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #142 on: July 01, 2012, 05:36:11 AM »
Well Mike, the Sun Star mock-up seems to be more attractive (to my eye) than what you were building but I'm not sure if it's because it has color on it, or no flares, or maybe something else entirely. I have to say the flares on the real Gray Ghost are not the prettiest things in the world. I feel the same about the ones on the resin body, but the fact of the matter is they are supposed to be there if someone is attempting to make a true model of the real car. My thinking is this Sun Star piece might yield a better model in the end. How about you? Do you have a preference for one over the other?
Jon Mello
CRG

Swede70

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #143 on: July 02, 2012, 06:55:18 PM »
Greetings,

Indeed, that much of this is at present painted likely makes more of a visual impact versus the 1:25 project.  Pressed ahead with the 1:18 iteration, adding a Lane '68 Firebird engine, mating the wheel backs of the standard Sun Star model to the GMP Trans Am Minilites, and generally playing about with the ride height, etc.  The 1:18th projects always have more visual pop, especially as comparatively few modify them so.  Not sure which will emerge as better, for the larger model looks nice as well.  

Concerning work undertaken, the side GTO identification either washed off or washed off and levelled for the use of a metal file, whereas the hood scoops and anything else needing blend work will best be addressed with sandpaper and various rubber bodywork blocks.  The headlamps have been reused after grinding the top surfaces flat and refinishing them, whereas a pair of license plates were quickly fabbed and added.  Worried about the flares, and while unattractive, the same are calling out to be added here.

Overall the model is quite smooth in appearance without their presence I must admit!  The thin rockers are all that holds the front and rear of the body together less the simple plastic roof, hence concerned that I'll overstress the casting for too ambitious filework.  Single cast Holley centerfloat 4BBL carburetor seen underhood borrowed from GMP Trans Am tool again.  Hope to cast two sets of GMP Trans Am Camaro upper control arms to use one set here, and another for the dormant '68-'69-season T-G Firebird seen some time ago so that it too may be up on wheels sooner rather than later.  Front wheelhousings largely cut away but for the mounting point of the chassis which can barely be made out one-third of the way forward from the cowl looking towards the front of model.  Reproducing the underhood panel work seems quite possible now, while happy I am not to lose rigidity for cutting out the mounting points in their entirety.  Thanks for kind continued interest...

Mike K.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:28:06 PM by Jon Mello »

Swede70

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #144 on: July 07, 2012, 03:38:36 PM »
Greetings,

Short update; i.e. the decorative hood scoop inserts have been removed, the raised trailing edge of each has been sanded flat, whereupon each was flipped upside down, sanded flat and set into the hood.  The recycled inserts will serve well as plugs lest I be tempted to use too much putty on the hood casting.  The front spoiler has been fabricated although the same is a bit too deep, whereas the ride height is a bit tall absent flare work and wheelhousing work to allow room for the tires.  A 1:18 ERTL Authentics '67 Impala SS will likely donate a few chassis pieces for in particular I favor the rear suspension and sway bar present there.  A hood tachometer pod was found from dead 1:18 Lane '68 Firebird, the part still wearing a finish of period green metallic.  The fuel cell housing was cast from 1:18 GMP Camaro Trans Am and installed with a scratchbuilt mounting lip, whereas I'm deciding if I should cut a hole straight through base of trunk to install it properly.  Five-element Wink mirror to come, as will the seat which was itself handbuilt, evoking another what might be encountered in a 1950's homebuilt sportscar.  Though unseen, rear seat cushions cut out with an aluminum fill panel cut to fit.  Searching then for information on a hobby sheet metal brake for I'm not sure how to bend it at the bottom without damaging the entire delicate effort.  

Continuing, the AC Delco open element air cleaner was stolen from 1:18 ERTL Authentics '67 Camaro Z/28, base scratchbuilt and surely is not final.  The abbreviated fan shroud formerly seen was filed off the radiator support, while cast-in battery cut out with the surrounding area has been finish sanded.  The brake master cylinder either 1:18 Yat Ming Rebel Machine or 1:18 ERTL '68 AMX, although if some heavy duty Ford truck master cylinder fell out of the sky done in 1:18th I'd be most appreciative!  I've decided to do flares having traced the extent of material I want removed from the shell onto the body casting just last evening, whereas rollcage fabrication in this instance hugely facilitated for a roof that is removable and replaceable in seconds.  Proceeding ahead then...

Mike K.




...hood not sanded or skim puttied yet, although appearing sound.  



.. .1:18 GMP Trans Am Camaro upper control arms are seen having been recently cast and cloned, whereas the same are slated to appear on other GM projects.  I hope to add threaded shock/washer/nut detail, and perhaps the same for the ball joints which are decidedly non-stock.  Further, I intend to build proper upper control arm pedestals and set the arms at an angle that suggests caster.  

Thanks...

M.K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:29:24 PM by Jon Mello »

Jon Mello

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3923
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #145 on: July 08, 2012, 05:33:30 PM »
You're making some nice progress, Mike. I have a question regarding the hood hinges on this 1:18 model. Do you have to stick with this "unstock" look or are you going to fabricate something more authentic looking? It's certainly quite a bit more work to do that. On another note, it's interesting to note that the Gray Ghost started out at Lime Rock as a Tempest 2-door post with a B-pillar and fully framed side windows. It also had black steel wheels at that race. It appears that they subsequently removed the B-pillars, framed windows and added Minilites and thus by default you are going for this later look. I'm curious, does anybody make a 2-door post version of a '64 Tempest/GTO?
Jon Mello
CRG

Swede70

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #146 on: July 08, 2012, 06:03:09 PM »
Hi Jon,

Indeed, what are termed 'dog leg' hinges plague 1:18 diecast models and telegraph 'toy' with irritating insistence.  I do have the shattered remains of a 1:18 ERTL Authentics '67 Impala SS that features quite nice scissor hinges, but then I'm not sure at present if a means to mount the rather heavy hood to the hinges can be devised short of making a two-piece mold of the hood to effectively do the same as a resin casting.  If a casting was made then weight would go down, with the stress placed upon the hinges doubtlessly less.  The standard hinges look quite awful, and yet at present I'm not sure what I'll do here.

Though massively labor-intensive, the flares will be done.  I've filed out the extent of the flares seen on the actual racer in a manner akin to the what was done on an earlier '70 Autodynamics Challenger project, and hence what appears a clean Trans Am-themed model will become more serious soon.  Imagine if you will the total extent of a bubble flare being traced onto each respective panel, with an oversized rasp file being employed to file out the wheelhousing openings to match the traced contour.  Done this morning, some blood is seen on the bodyshell for very physical effort is required.  It's strange to take a nicely finished model in a very agreeable shade and cut into it.  Indeed, I think I painted the bumpers quickly under the erroneous assumption that perhaps I could wrap matters up quickly - something I've said before and to no apparent effect for the number of projects continues to grow!

Yes, I rather like the hood tachometer pod, while I'm reluctant to let it go.  Further, I know for in the rain that pressed steel wheels were the usual fitment.  No wider pressed steel wheels exist, hence the same would have to be cobbled up if I strictly desired this specification. Additionally, to my knowledge no post coupe exists in 1:18 for either the 1964 Tempest or Tempest GTO.  Trace remains of the structure can be seen on the actual car to the extent of the cut B-pillars remaining as stubs bulging out a bit if viewed top down aft of the doors.  So soon they cut out the post coupe structure, whereas it was unusual to notice how the roll cage was welded to what appears as steel 'L'-shaped channels running inside the A-pillars as well as under the roof.  A simple cage in some respects, but quite thoroughly welded to everything vaguely in proximity. Thanks for your kind interest and comments for they mean a lot.  

M.K.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 06:25:56 PM by Swede70 »

Jon Mello

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3923
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #147 on: July 13, 2012, 03:44:12 AM »
Mike, it sounds like you are "getting serious" with it.  That's good to hear you are doing the flares as it is the proper thing to do if you are going to make a true representation of the Gray Ghost. How about the removable roof on the model? Are you going to leave that feature alone or permanently affix the roof to the rest of the body?
Jon Mello
CRG

Swede70

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #148 on: July 13, 2012, 03:26:59 PM »
Hi Jon,

Worried about making much attempt to permanently affixing the roof to the body on the Gray Ghost for the roof casting is really quite cheap and flimsy - almost from a different world compared to what I usually have to start with.  I may very strategically smear putty between it and the body casting proper and paint this gap in situ, masking the shell and the roof respectively to apply paint only to this exposed material.  Silicone isn't an option for silicone won't stand to be finished with anything.  For now I suppose the removable roof is a plus for few excuses I'll have regarding the fabrication of a tight-fitting roll cage.  

The Gray Ghost is seen now with a filed body, in particular with extended wheelhousings capturing the extent of the 'eyebrow' flarework and essentially terminating at the character line seen a bit lower on the bodywork.  Flare 'pucks' made of stacked plastic sheet are to come, with material for the same saved, but so too pondering the employment of something identified as Renboard for the flarework.  I have two small 'bricks' of the Renboard, a prototyping material akin to a dense 'plastic wood', but have never used this material before.

Looking at the chassis now, the rear wheelhousings have been sectioned to allow more travel top to bottom, whereas the front screw attachment points intruding into the front wheelhousings have been cut and cleared away.  Further, the inner wing/inner fender lip/seam for the bulk of each panel has been filed away awaiting fabrication of the aluminum wheelhousing shrouds employed on the period racer.  See:



...before



...at present then



...inner fender work awaiting fabricated wheelhousing panels.  Note how some material has been saved to mount stock hinges towards the firewall, otherwise a largely flat surface short of being too bold or too daring here.  

-

An unexpected discovery concerning the GMP Camaros and anything running ARE wheels was made yesterday.  While aftermarket and cottage hobby suppliers afford much to 1:24th/1:25th modders, there is very little available for 1:18th scale enthusiasts intent on modifying their prefinished replicas.  With very inexpensive vernier caliper in hand, I purchased a set of the smaller scale turned aluminum wheel lips intended to replicate 23 inch wheel detail, employing them instead on a 1:18 GMP Penske Donohue Camaro for which I'd already cut the exterior wheel lips off of.  Very impressive, needing a bit of work yet, but the appearance afforded to the GMP model is that of a high-end 1:43rd scale handbuilt.  Happy, dreading necessity of refitting all '67-'69 topics ARE-equipped with same - although such a difference I don't know how I could say no.  Some work needed to center them atop the spoke portion of the rims, whereas I hope I can remove a bit of material of the back of the lips to tighten up the appearance of each assembly for they seem a bit too wide.  Quite nice though:



...before, and in time to have an engine and proper '67-'68 dash shell as provided by a certain deceased 1:18 Lane '68 Firebird.




...after, although just pressed in place and not final.  Dimensionally not all they can be at present - but quite a difference.  Thanks...


Mike K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 11:33:31 PM by Jon Mello »

Jon Mello

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3923
    • View Profile
Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2012, 06:01:36 AM »
Mike, those turned aluminum wheel lips on the Camaro are terrific. Nice find on your part.

For having a removable roof, it really does not look too bad on the Tempest. Not perfect, but pretty darn good in my opinion. Lots of work done so far in terms of filing the wheel openings and still more to go in recreating the flares. I look forward to seeing how the flares turn out and whether you decided to go with the Renboard or the stacked plastic pucks.
Jon Mello
CRG