Author Topic: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.  (Read 159076 times)

Swede70

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #120 on: April 02, 2012, 03:34:35 PM »
Greetings,

(Adams/Trans-Action/Tullius Gray Ghost the topic in 1:25th scale)

Quite busy, hence modest pace on anything at all scale replica related.  Standard 1:25 AMT '65 GTO chassis 'features' cast-in exhaust and rear suspension complete, hence same cut out and replaced with resized 1:25 AMT '62 Catalina assembly from rear suspension pick up points aft, whereas stamping seen between chassis rails forward is sourced from a 1:24 Polar Lights GTO trimmed to disguise how relatively large it is.  The parts are held together with brass box section laid in a bed of two-part epoxy applied on the topside.  Late BOP differential mated to '62 Catalina rear suspension, camber adjustment flanges seen where center section mates to axle housing tubes appearing oversized do reflect 1:1 reality.  Until I was able to stiffen this mash of subassemblies, I could proceed no further.  

Polar Lights '64 GTO inner door trim panels have been introduced into interior bucket, the horrid cast-in console has been removed, whereas a plug has been fabricated and fitted to disguise resultant gap. The rear extent of interior trim and rear package shelf integration is quite crude at this juncture.  A scratchbuilt seat and shifter platform is to come, while the cast-in armrests are to be drilled clean out and replaced with inset panel plugs. The glovebox has been removed, whereas CDI module has been set in place on firewall. A new Polar Lights GTO was picked up to replace the inset floor pan section imperfectly employed before, whereas the trans. crossmember is in place from the same now. Engine awaits sump fabrication, likely just cloned from a T-G Firebird wet sump design that I have a picture of.

Fuel tank removed, plug for same fabricated, whereas fuel cell housing with straps fabricated and set in place. Largely invisible when viewed from side, as 'abandoned wreck' photo images reveals. Rear frame rails and associate hardware looking quite nice, while negative camber of rear axle assembly now a reality. Meshing all the chassis and interior parts (some 1:24 scale, others 1:25 scale) isn't much fun, but the project is coming along all the same. Thanks...

Mike K.




...pin vise work to drill four holes around the fuel inlet just discernable for fuzzy photo image provided.

M.K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:18:16 AM by Jon Mello »

Jon Mello

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #121 on: April 04, 2012, 03:43:57 PM »
Lots of kit-bashing going on and fab work plus mixing two different scales into one. Can't argue with the results. Looks like it's coming along nicely so far, Mike.
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Swede70

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #122 on: April 09, 2012, 03:01:29 PM »
Greetings and thanks for the kind continuing interest evidenced,

Thought given to interior has witnessed me toss aside the old AMT '65 interior casting and simply build up from the composite elements I have in my possession. Some putty work to fill gaps will be needed, some faux structure to add, but generally workable inside at present. Half-round stock will be used for panel indentations stamped from the other side prior to welding of the floor pan proper, some bracework from side-to-side will be reproduced, whereas body drain plug holes and plugs will further be added.  Some imagineering to come then...

So, from back to front what has been employed constitutes the aforementioned AMT '65 GTO rear parcel shelf joined to a carefully fitted sheet plastic bulkhead mated to the rear third of the AMT '62 Catalina chassis adjusted to fit. Forward of this is the AMT '65 GTO perimeter frame, the reverse side of the Polar Lights '64 GTO underbelly stamping which is now mated to the upturned firewall section cut out and reemployed here from the same Polar Lights tool. The side panels are Polar Lights again, now free of both arm rests and window winders. The dashboard is now a Polar Lights part supported by AMT '65 GTO top structure, while removing the dashpad entirely from the dash stamping affords the odd depth of instrument panel positioning that I didn't quite understand or 'get' for careful (well, kinda/sorta) inspection of my period photographs. As Ralph Nader would describe in his work Unsafe At Any Speed, the second impact suffered on that dash wouldn't be remembered; i.e. one would either be killed outright or merely knocked out cold.

Some stripped shell w/perimeter frame photo images have been found online to inform the effort. Neat this; i.e. that one can  go online and find structural shots, etc. simply for cooking up a rudimentary web search. A New Mexico-situated '64 Tempest found for sale and intelligently photographed helps some faceless hobby-type working on a scale replica, thus providing modest amusement to you.  Thank you very much Jon for posting the '71 SCCA regulations, for your so-doing I can effectively 'design' matters around what is vividly described thus.  Yes, the chassis forward of the firewall is nasty, whereas Revell '69 Camaro next up to the plastic torch to see what might be stolen and integrated here. Proceeding ahead then...



Mike K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:19:10 AM by Jon Mello »

Jon Mello

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #123 on: April 13, 2012, 01:19:01 PM »
Coming along nicely, Mike. You're right about that front frame section being not up to snuff. Something there has to be improved. I'm not sure a '69 Camaro subframe would look appropriate enough. No other GM "A-body" car kits you can steal a better frame from? Craig Wheeldon sent me an article from (I believe) Car & Driver which was called "Return of the Gray Ghost". There are a couple of vintage pics of the car in there plus some new ones as well. Do you already have that article?
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Swede70

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2012, 03:44:18 PM »
Thanks for your interest and attention,

A few developments here - some a surprise.  Established contact with current owner, who fielded questions via phone in a manner akin to interviews found on the CRG board.  Hope to see actual car as it emerges from storage post May 1st (this being 2012).  It has happened that people associated with the construction of a vehicle or the restoration of the same have stepped forward in relation to posts made of this or that project, whereas this will constitute the first time an actual owner might permit me the kind courtesy of making a first-hand inspection of the topic - a good feeling this.   The original color of the Herb Adam's car was a shade of green, hence little things are illuminated for application to matters.  One finds color chips online, isolates said '64 Pontiac shade, orders paint, presumes some mix of carpet glue/corrosion/plus welding on the floor and cage structure to be reproduced - and with a deliberate intake of air proceeds ahead.

The polygot chassis worked up above has now been tossed aside.  For investigation and questions fielded on hobby boards, two different tool Oldsmobile 442's have been tossed into the subassembly fire - one a 1:25th Lindbergh '67 442, the other a 1:25th AMT '66 442.  The AMT tool has a one-piece full perimeter frame much like the AMT '62 Catalina, and is properly sized for the platform seems shared.  I haven't been 'doing plastic in 1:25th' for some time, hence I wasn't aware that my kit selection wasn't optimized for that which I am trying to accomplish here.  Something a little strange, but the floor will be double-walled for the top of the Lindbergh '67 442 floorpan tool looks about right when viewed from the top side, whereas the AMT '66 442 floorpan and perimeter frame will quite easily and confidently be employed from below for it is all of a piece.   The AMT tool isn't acceptable when viewed from the top bare, or really subject to disguise, hence the decision made to cover it.  In sum and for all the lessons learned, not a very good use of time, and many missteps taken concerning how I've been going about matters.  A very fine BOP differential is included in the AMT '66 442 tool, while the front suspension including distinct upper A-arms and the like will be noticed.   

Sometimes the work area must be cleared and a panalopy of missteps forgotten.  Thankful then that the shell wasn't modified (a rare resin casting - only 55 of these were produced and hence it's irreplacable), and that the Lindbergh tool will afford a firewall and topside floor even if the dimensions are fudged atop to bottom to use the same.  The AMT '62 Catalina does feature the best Pontiac engine, updated in various ways for the use of later-iteration parts - hence less total waste.  I feel rather like a Civil War general that has withdrawn from the field of battle with my forces intact but nevertheless badly bloodied - the reason for which only I can take the blame.  An odd thing to relate, but a quite accurate description of my mental state all the same.  A far better base and entirely better-reasoned way forward to be seen in photo images soon - thanks...


Mike K.

Swede70

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2012, 09:21:44 PM »
Better - the eternal enemy of 'good enough',


New AMT '66 442 complete underbelly less suspension and frame...  




Inexplicable utility of overlay on the top of same chassis 'stamping' seen:


...before


...after without any great attempt to integrate panel but for cutting and sanding same.


A bit bulbous, but much in terms of shape and contour stands to be gained thus:  





Thanks - less angry ghost, more the Casper variety now.  


Mike K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:23:57 AM by Jon Mello »

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #126 on: April 13, 2012, 09:43:04 PM »
Much nicer piece, Mike, although would be nice to see the frame also. Very strange extra "overlay". Can't recall ever seeing that before.
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Swede70

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #127 on: April 14, 2012, 03:29:57 PM »
I appreciate the kind attention,

Full frame - very different from earlier hobby days when promotional coaster chassis was simply reused and cut to allow an engine to be installed.  Largely hollow and delicate, hence same may be puttied at least to the extent of disguising state of same where visible up front and underhood.  Thanks...



...same roughly in place, old promotional model structure to site front bumper and chassis needs to be cleared away now from the basic shell, frame ends eventually to be tucked away beneath and behind bumpers.  




Mike K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:31:59 AM by Jon Mello »

Jon Mello

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #128 on: April 15, 2012, 02:04:31 AM »
Very unique frame and chassis for a model kit, Mike. Never see one like it before. Pretty neat, actually. Thanks for posting the pics. Definitely a much better piece (or pieces) than what you had to work with previously.
Jon Mello
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Swede70

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #129 on: April 26, 2012, 12:51:45 AM »
Thanks again for the kind attention paid,

Someone else inquired about the '70 Penske Javelin projects, gathering parts to construct something along the very same lines - hence I took a few photos.  Anyhow, a small number of interior photographs featuring a hand formed cage (albeit missing a few bars as of yet) as well as a fair rendition of a Racemark seat.  The seat can be seen to have been extended nearabouts the legs for the sourcing of another casting that has been sectioned in, whereas at the time I did not have better resource material to guess at the mounting frame.  Odd, but nice to have discovered far better material here as found within the space of the racing seat thread some time ago.  Not complete (as altogether too much of what I have is), but encouraging (ditto).  





Mike K.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 08:52:46 PM by Jon Mello »

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #130 on: April 29, 2012, 11:58:22 PM »
Good feedback, Mike. Nice to know the seat thread is proving useful. Why is the rear area cut out on this Javelin interior? Was there a rear seat there that needed to be removed or was it for some other reason? I'm not sure you said what kit you started with.
Jon Mello
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Swede70

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #131 on: April 30, 2012, 03:46:42 PM »
Thanks Jon,

The Javelin(s) are based upon the original Jo-Han '70 Javelin Trans Am tool, whereas the chassis has been modified (and hopefully improved upon) for the incorporation of elements from the Jo-Han '69 SC/Rambler tool.  The SC/Rambler model features a separate rear axle and springs, whereas on the Javelin, all is cast-in and markedly simplified.  For the front, a combination of Javelin subframe, a '70 Rebel Machine crossmember plus upper and lower control arms, in addition to SC/Ramber inner wings/fenders will be employed.  The interior is cut out for there was interference between it and the chassis/floorpan structure being built up from below, and given it should only be one panel with two sides anyhow (unlike the 'cheat' underway on the Tempest Gray Ghost), here I've chosen to employ the top structure of the chassis 'plate'.  




...Javelin chassis with SC/Rambler between the rear subframe rails structure, a seam atop the 'hump', and then SC/Rambler trunk structure heading back.  Quite smooth, and hence the choice to incorporate it rather than hide the same.  More work to come, but largely solid.  Some of my subassemblies will more or less stick together in place sans glue, a sign of sorts that matters mate well indeed.



...a bit crude around the rear subframe yet, but a guide towards what is intended.  Front suspension parts more or less collected, original structure of Javelin chassis in some instances stands to be reused as not to 'throw away the dimensions' concerning the siting of the axle, but many other elements added to improve matters.  AMC Model 20 differential pig/diff. housing less axle shaft housings seen.  Shocks, panhard rod, etc. not yet fabricated and hence unseen.

-

Meanwhile, the Tempest is back on wheels - complete with negative camber front and rear and a bit of toe-out up front besides.  Bumpers mount to frame, hence body can be removed to leave each suspended in place - an odd look surely!  Temporary framework used to site rear axle for purposes of establishing ride height and track, whereupon I'll modify the rear suspension around the dimensions and fit established for so doing.  I think it looks about right.  Thanks and kind regards...





...firewall a bit too far forward, drivetrain a bit large front to back, while Lindbergh '67 442 radiator support not far enough back either.  Still, showing promise...


Mike K.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 08:53:21 PM by Jon Mello »

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #132 on: May 12, 2012, 03:56:28 AM »
Nice work on both cars, Mike. Very impressive in all the various details. I think both cars are coming along nicely.

I had assumed you might be using the Jo-Han Javelin so thanks for the confirmation of that.
Jon Mello
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Swede70

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #133 on: May 12, 2012, 05:49:42 PM »
Thanks for the kind comments Jon,

Modest update - new grilles on Trans-Action Tempest.  All tools and tooling for scale models have either 'PONTIAC' or 'GTO' identification on the right grille, whereas reproducing the slight warp evident where the end of each grille stamping comes into contact with the midpoint Pontiac grille 'beak' wasn't strictly possible for the use of kit plastic griles which are both thick and hard.  I decided to reshape a left side grille sans identification so that it might be reemployed and refited upsidedown on the right hand side, thin my master so that the shape might be a uniform and adaptable as possible, and then cast the result so that clones might be created that might also be twisted to produce the 'warped' profile desired for both sides.  Much better now - hence felt the need to share.  Some early underhood 'aluminum' panel work added, the heat core block out plate, and an early effort at home-brewed cowl induction vent is seen as well.  Very kind regards to all here...

...painfully fuzzy early mock up with original 'as delivered' front profile:


...our dear topic:


...new grilles:



Mike K.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 05:15:44 AM by Jon Mello »

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Re: Ideas to share concerning 1:18 '67-'69 GMP Penske Donohue Camaros.
« Reply #134 on: May 13, 2012, 12:37:33 AM »
Impressive work with the grille, Mike.  I like it.  As Siskel & Ebert would say, "two thumbs up".  :)
Jon Mello
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