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Author Topic: Factory rear sway bar set-up, 1967  (Read 7678 times)
Jon Mello
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« on: May 12, 2011, 11:16:20 AM »

Below are several photos of an NOS rear sway bar set-up for the '67 Trans-Am Camaro The example
in the photos is owned by Frank DiHartce and the photos are courtesy of Frank as well. This is an
extremely hard to find racing part, not intended for any street car. It is estimated that possibly as few
as 10 of these complete set-ups were made. I am personally aware of three NOS complete sets still
out there. I've never seen one, or leftover pieces of one, on any of the West Coast Historic T/A cars.
Has anybody else seen this set-up on a car?












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Jon Mello
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2011, 11:33:18 AM »

Wow, Jon.  And Mr. DiHartce, that is a very trick piece you have there.  I've never seen one, and in such great detail.

For some reason the threaded nut plate that I believe must be a part of a sandwich to the unibody/frame/floor of the car, really caught my eye.  That's a very nicely engineered piece.

Great stuff.  Thanks for posting.

-Chad
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2011, 10:39:09 PM »

You're welcome, Chad.  I didn't realize you hadn't seen one of those before.

There is more information on this set-up in Wayne Guinn's Camaro: Untold Secrets book, for those who want to learn more.

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Jon Mello
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 12:10:33 AM »

Hello Jon,

Nope.  New to me, but then again, I need to get Wayne Guinn's book... Obviously.  It's now on my birthday list.

Quick questions for you or Mr. DiHartce.  Is the actual bar part of this assembly re-used from another GM production car?  And may I also ask the distance from eye to eye on the sway bar? 

The eye-to-eye length would help me visualize the part under a first gen Camaro.

Thanks,
Chad
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Bruce302
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 04:58:07 AM »

Holy smoke, that is very neat.   Way to nice to ever fit to a car, even if that is where it belongs.

Having the factory finish, and the parts number stickers is priceless.

Where do things things live for 4 decades before coming back out into the light of day again ?

Bruce.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 02:28:47 PM »

Frank tells me the bar is identical to a front '67-'69 Camaro sway bar (except for the diameter). Many
thanks go out to Frank for sharing his photos and knowledge of this very rare piece of Camaro race
history. Frank has got one of the premier collections of Camaro performance and racing items and
hopefully we'll see more of it in the future.

I don't know why, how or where this stuff survived over the last several decades but it is sure great
to see that it has.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 04:39:23 PM »

Thanks, Jon... and Frank.

-Chad
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 04:40:00 PM »

Frank has got one of the premier collections of Camaro performance and racing items and
hopefully we'll see more of it in the future.

Not to mention, a '69 ZL1!    Wink

Paul
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oldtransamdriver
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 08:17:41 PM »

I'm curious if the Historic T/A cars are running rear sway bars?  Did stock Z 28's have a rear bar?  I think we tried a rear bar a few times, and in the end decided it didn't work for us, but maybe with more test time etc. it may have done.

Robert Barg
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Bruce302
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 11:06:55 PM »

Robert,

My Titus/Godsall built '69 Firebird has the rear sway bar. It is not the same as the one above, it was made in house by T/G and has a 3 positions for the connector links.
It certainly gave more tunability to the handling and bottom line. it worked.

There are some cars in Historic Trans Am running rear bars, but they would be the better sorted ones.

Bruce.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2011, 01:57:37 AM »

Bruce, do you happen to have any photos of your rear sway bar set-up? If so, you could post them here? I'd love to see them and I bet others would as well.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2011, 02:41:32 PM »

Hi John,
I am out of town until the end of the week, but I will take some pics when I get back.

Bruce.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2011, 05:57:52 PM »

That would be great, Bruce. Thank you.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2011, 03:25:38 AM »

Ok here is the first gen T/G racing 1969 Pontiac Firebird T/A rear sway bar.  Not as intricate as the Chevrolet part, as it was a race only part.

It is 3/4" solid bar and is attached to a pre-welded base with two aluminum blocks.  The width of the bar is 30" and there is 6 positions each side for fine tuning.
The adjustment points range from 4" leverage to 10.5" .



There are two Heim jointed links that attach to the leaf spring lower plate. The other factor to be considered with any bar is that the lever part is 90 degrees to the direction of the force, or the road surface to put it simply.



The aluminum blocks are both numbered, 13 and 14 in the case of this bar, and the attaching bolts are drilled head "Supertanium' items, and another brand marked L9, maybe someone can identify them. The two halves of the mounting blocks are located with a roll pin.





Bruce.

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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2011, 10:46:14 PM »

Great setup, Bruce.  

For those less intimate with these types of rear sway bar setup, these pillow blocks Bruce posted mount to a welded in base that the Titus-Godsall shops added to the rear floor/unibody just above and forward of the rear differential.

Per the note on the L9 bolt... From what I can find, the L9 Fastening System is a registered trademark of Brighton Best.  Unlike the Supertanium hardware, it would still seem readily available through several suppliers.


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Jon Mello
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2011, 12:02:53 AM »

Bruce, thanks a bunch for posting that T/G rear sway bar. Very cool piece. I've seen some aluminum pillow blocks that have a brass or bronze insert for the sway bar to ride in and some that are just aluminum only. I don't see any noticeable wear on these pillow blocks of yours and they sure seem to be the 42 year old originals. Are there no problems with a steel sway bar riding by itself in an unlubricated bare aluminum pillow block?

Chad, thanks for the links to the L9 bolts. They appear to be an Australian manufacturer.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2011, 04:01:32 AM »

Jon,

The pillow blocks are straight aluminum, no inserts. And while the car may be 40+ years old it had less than 5 years of use. It is possible that there was a smear of grease on the sway bar, but generally dis-similar metals will not gall the way like metals do. 

Thanks Chad for the links to the L9 hardware. They could well have been a later addition, they weren't even drilled for the safety wire.

Bruce.
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2011, 11:41:40 AM »

Hello Jon,

Not that important, but the catalog link for L9 fasteners I sent was for Brighton-Best's down under locations.  According to this about us page, Brighton-Best started here in the US and was bought by a Taiwanese group in 2008.

-Chad
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big iron
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2012, 07:42:42 PM »

Joe,
Did you notice that your last 2 pictures show a completely different bar set-up? All the parts are black. The  backing plate is thinner and solid with no long hole in the center.
Bob
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2012, 12:48:23 PM »

Thanks for asking the question. I went back and asked Frank. While those unslotted plates you are talking about (see red arrows in photo below) came from the same person that sold Frank one of his rear sway bar set-ups, Frank believes that they were extra parts and not original GM pieces. Also, it should be pointed out that those (red arrow) plates are not threaded to accept a bolt and thus could only be used as a spacer. The only proper plates to be used with the rear sway bar are the ones with the slot (pointed out with a black arrow below). Thanks again for the eagle eye and for asking the question.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2012, 03:09:49 PM »

Would it be at all possible for a photo/s to be taken of the supports in their intended location on a car please?
The drawings are not totally clear when trying to visualize exactly where.
Due to their rarity and I'm sure, expense.. I would be interested in fabbing the parts required in this kit myself.  Smiley
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2012, 08:00:10 AM »

While Frank was fortunate enough to be able to acquire two complete rear sway bar set-ups over his many years in the Camaro hobby, he no longer owns either one. I think if you get a factory sway bar and place it behind the axle up toward the frame area, you will get a good idea of where those brackets need to be. Sorry to not be able to be much better help than that at this time.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2012, 08:54:11 PM »

If I remember correctly those plates where called tapping plates and used the same bolts as the front bar used. Also the picture showing the upper bracket is distorted as the upper frame bracket was u-shaped , not laid over as shown in the pictures. That is the the way my set was in 1970, which probably was an early set. Looking at your pictures the tapped plate would have been much stronger,but never had problems with the tapping plate.
Bob
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2012, 02:19:50 PM »

I don't think anything was laid out in the pictures with the intent to demonstrate how it was installed in the car, if that's what you mean. These were pictures that Frank took when he was putting the parts up for sale on ebay several years back.

I have heard the plates referred to as reinforcement plates but a tapping plate is an appropriate name also. You are correct that they were the same pieces that were recommended for use as a reinforcement for the bigger swaybars up inside the front subframe. You would drill out the stock holes in the subframe for mounting the sway bar bracket and bushings and the reinforcement (or tapping) plate would be inside the frame with tapped holes to engage the threads of the bolts. The slot in the middle of the reinforcement plate cleared the upward ridge stamped into the subframe between the two bolt holes (on each side). The red arrow below points to the ridge.



Front subframe bushing (and stock bracket) for the
1-1/16" sway bar plus the reinforcement (aka tapping) plate.

Courtesy of Frank Dihartce


Courtesy of Frank Dihartce
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2012, 08:04:25 PM »

Went out and bought Untold Secrets and sure enough on pages 24,25, and 26 there was the complete system , including the thin tapping plates, used on the rear sway bar install on my 67 in 1970.
On page 47 there is a blueprint of the first design disc brake rear that I  used.
Still have most of the parts on the car, been in the corner of the garage for 37 years. Gathering parts to put it back to all most street original. Roll Eyes
Bob
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2012, 11:40:14 AM »

One of Frank's rear sway bar set-ups is the same one as shown in Wayne Guinn's book. I'd like to know more about this car that you mention.

Here's a view of a subframe which has a reinforcement plate installed behind the mounting area for the front sway bar.
I believe it was plug welded to keep it in place.


The reinforcement plate can partially be seen by looking through the spring pocket hole.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2012, 04:41:29 PM »

Jon,

Here are a couple of pictures of the brackets I have. Check your PM's.

Bill
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BlackoutSteve
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« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2012, 04:40:21 AM »

Here's a view of a subframe which has a reinforcement plate installed behind the mounting area for the front sway bar.
I believe it was plug welded to keep it in place.

5/16" or 3/8" threads?
I think 5/16" were used all the way up to end of 1968, then swapped to 3/8" with the redesigned bracket.. Not totally sure.. Somebody??
Never seen plates with 5/16" threads before. maybe they fitted them when they switched to 3/8" which is why I ask..
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2012, 06:29:25 PM »

Steve, I checked with Frank Dihartce and he tells me the bolts to mount the rear sway bar to the tapping plates were 7/16" - 14 x 1". I hope that helps.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 05:45:48 AM »

Thanks Jon, but I was asking/referring to your front subframe pics and post.  Smiley
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« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2012, 09:46:32 PM »

Oops. That's a '67 subframe and it's using the stock 5/16" bolt size for that year. The plate is not a GM piece on this particular frame but made to replicate its function. The bolt holes could pretty easily be opened up to accommodate a 3/8" bolt, if desired.
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2014, 08:32:00 PM »

Found in the trunk of the State's Camaro is an unused factory rear sway bar set. Still covered in years of dust, but the parts tags remain.



Here is a comparison of the correct 5/8" diameter rear bar vs. a 11/16" front bar:



The contours are somewhat different.
Robert
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OG69Z
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« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2014, 08:52:35 PM »

The support or tapping plate was earlier listed. It can be used on the front of the Camaro with the factory 1 1/16" bar.  The tapping plate is a heavy piece machined from 1/2" stock and relieved as Jon has pointed out for the indent of the subframe. It is threaded for 7/16"-14 threads, on 2.5 inch centers.
The State's Camaro has longer 3/8 tapping plates up front. Each plate has three holes, two for the bar attachment and one 1/4" for plate retainment.
Robert
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JoeC
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« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2014, 06:02:32 AM »

you can get a peek of a 1st gen rear sway bar under the prototype street ZL1 shown at the 1970 Chevy press preview

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Jon Mello
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« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2014, 08:35:06 AM »

Robert, many thanks for posting those detailed photos. What an awesome find. That Tom States A/Sedan '68 Camaro you bought was quite a score. I look forward to seeing more on it in the future.


Joe, thanks for posting that ZL-1 photo. It appears that the rear sway bar used on that car is more closely related to the '70 Z or SS Nova set-up than to the '67 version shown in this thread.
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« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2014, 12:31:32 AM »

Hopefully not wandering too far off-topic on my first post, but...

Didn't X-bodies get a rear sway bar, starting in 1968, when the F41 suspension option was ordered? I know that this was true in 1970, in fact, the rear bar installation on the ZL-1 shown above strongly resembles the Nova F41 configuration.

I have long wondered how the lowly Nova got this option before the Camaro.   Huh
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JoeC
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« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2014, 08:09:21 AM »

 there is some different info on it but from what I can tell the 1970 Nova had an RPO F41 that came out about March 1970,
 used a 13/16 front bar and a 5/8 rear bar, and can be ordered on SS and non SS Novas
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