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Author Topic: '69 Z28 newbie  (Read 2193 times)
mikemattmase
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« on: May 05, 2011, 10:01:52 PM »

Bear with me everyone on this lengthy post but I'm new to the muscle car scene.

I've never owned a 1st Gen Camaro but I've been looking to buy one recently.  I've been researching 69 z28's and just inspected my first one.  If anyone has some advice on the following problems I found and associated price, I love to hear your inputs. I'd really like to know if $35,000 is a reasonable price for the following imperfections on this good looking/sounding Z28.

This Z28 appears to have the correct VIN, cowl tag and other features that make it a 69 z28.  It's Lemans Blue with white stripes, a DZ302 motor, in-dash Tach, 4 speed M21 trans, 12 bolt rear, with disc brakes up front and 4 leaf springs in the back.  It's an early 69 so no X-code.  Over the phone and in the online ad, the gentleman selling the vehicle said the only thing wrong with the car was an inoperative gas gauge.  Upon visual inspection we found the following issues...trunk pan had been replaced and spot welded in; rust in the bottom left and right corners of the trunk that had been painted over years ago; rear windows that were off their tracks and had to be helped up; minor oil leak from the rear of the engine/transmission; inoperative speedometer; broken leaf spring on left rear; rear bumper missing mounts on left and right side; rear spoiler not attached per original design; manufactured holes in the firewall not sealed after wires were run through; underneath the dash there appears to be a cracked weld or incorrectly installed piece of sheet metal as your looking up from underneath in the vicinity of the center dash; no idiot lights on the dash.
The engine sounds and runs strong and the paint job is very nice.  This man also has a beautifully restored '57 pickup that he did himself so I was surprised to find all these additional problems with the Z that weren't disclosed in the ad or during a phone conversation.  I realize this is a 40+ year old car and will have some problems, but is $35,000 too much?  This gentleman has owned the car for 3 years where he purchased it from a classic car dealer in Clearwater FL.  Any insight you may have will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Mike
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dannystarr
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 02:50:25 AM »

Well Newbie, I am by no means an expert. Just a back yard guy that likes the cars and knows a little something about them. It is SO hard to figure the value of a car that can't be seen. That's the first thing. Can you post 20 pictures of this car, or at least a few?

Having no X-Code makes things a touch more difficult, but certainly not impossible. There are MANY other things that can be checked to help determine if this is the real deal. Cause really, that's the first thing. Are you looking at a tribute/clone, or a real 69' Z/28. So you need the VIN, the build date of the car, the build and assembly date of the Engine, Transmission and Rear-End. This can all be acomplished in less than an hour if ya know where to look. I would buy a book written by a fellow Camaro guy, and a figure here on this site, a Mr. Jerry MacNeish. That book will help you along. THEN IF things are starting to come together and the car looks to be the real deal, you can progress. Ask the owner for right of first refusal whilst you do some research. Get the info and list it here as there are many people ( Paul, William, JohnZ, and the list goes on) here that forgot more about most when it comes to Camaro's. There is also a database of many surviving cars, maybe this car is on the list.

Book is called "The Definitive 1969 Camaro Z/28-SS396 Fact Book" Number is ISBN 0-9626399-1-5   Good Luck, I hope it's real!!.....Danny
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restore-z28
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 01:13:00 PM »

Mike, welcome to the site. This Seller obviously knows a little about classic vehicles as he restored a Pick up truck. At no point did he disclose the laundry list of issue you found, makes you wonder what else he's not telling you. You should spend some time reading the database of information on this site in addition to Jerry's book. Make sure you check the hidden vins and takes lots of pics of the engine stampings, transmission and rear end. You can post those same pics here and solicit feedback from the experts on authenticity. Lots of fake Z28's out there and you need to protect your investment. You can also hire Jerry, for a fee to inspect the car.  Without seeing some pics of stampings, body, interior etc it's hard to determine if the price tag of $35K is reasonable.
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Sonny

1969 Z28 Camaro
1970 Z28 Camaro

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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 02:36:45 PM »

You can also hire Jerry, for a fee to inspect the car.

Here is Jerry's contact info...  http://www.z28camaro.com/consvcs.html

Paul
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jmcbeth
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 02:57:02 PM »

Mike, Welcome.

I second the advice to post pics here first and then get Jerry to inspect the car if the folks on here don't see anything of concern. There is a HUGE amount of fraud and Jerry can spot it in a heartbeat. He saved my butt by inspecting a car that was advertised as all original. I will never forget his call to me from the site. "John, I can't find an original part on this car. Worse, it's been sectioned."

Best of luck,

John
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John
1969 Camaro Z/28 RS
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jacmac
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 06:12:17 PM »

If you are new to 1st gen camaros you can get all the books & info you want but it is not likely you will remember all the info.Get an Expert "like Jerry"on these cars to look at it.A little expensive but worth it.Ive owned my camaro for 35 yrs & I wouldnt dream of buying a Z/28,SS, with all the fakes out there,without having an expert look at it!
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69 Z10,72 corvette
mikemattmase
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 09:29:37 PM »

Thanks everyone for your awesome feedback.  I may take you up on hiring Mr MacNeish to have a look at this car.
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tom
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2011, 06:22:12 AM »

An inspection is not cheap, but better to find out the truth before you drop 35K on it. Post the vin number here, someone may recognize it. Get and post clear photos of the engine stamping, and the cowl tag so the experts can at least comment before you invest more time and money. Good hunting!
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69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speedo
Charley
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 09:18:37 AM »

Post some pics. I suspect we will tell you to keep looking.
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mikemattmase
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2011, 04:49:55 PM »

The VIN is 124379N523203.

Here's the info cut-and-pasted from the eBay add. 

****
69 Early Production (Oct 68) Real Deal Z28.  Blue with white racing stripes and houndstooth interior.  This car has been restored to a very high standard and you will not be disappointed.  I believe the mileage to be correct due to the overall condition and feel of the car, but I cannot document this.

Engine
302 DZ with stamp.  DZ stamp still visible although engine was decked at some point so stamping is faint. Engine has hydraulic Lunati Voo Doo Cam 262/268. Correct water pump, intake, Holley Carburetor, distributor, etc.  Engine is very strong and has a nice lope for cruising.  No leaks.
Engine Code is very faint due to being decked at some point.  The best I can tell it reads "V  22 DZ".  The first two digits are not legible.

Drive Train
Transmission Muncie M21 close ratio with correct numbers.  Hurst shifter with  12 bolt rear axle with 3:73 gear ratio.  All works as it should with no issues

Interior
Interior is very nice and clean with no issues.  Fuel gauge not working, all others ok.
Paint
Paint is done to a very high quality gloss.  It is obvious that it was wet sanded then buffed to a showroom finish.  There are two very minor paint issues.  One is a small scratch on driver fender, and one small chip on rear spoiler(both are too small to get in photo)

The trim tag reads 69  12437        NOR139974, 
Interior - 712(deluxe),      Paint   71(lemans blue)     B(black vinyl top)
Production  10C(3rd week october 68)
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 08:40:02 PM »

I am frame off restoring a 69 Z low mileage 10D (early) Lemans Blue car right now.

If you can pull the upper section of the rear seat you may find a an X 3 or X 7 on hte rear bulkhead. The car I'm doing has it's faint originals still in place.

With the (B) Black Roof she got Black Stripes...
If it doesn't have the rest of the gauges then the Tach isn't correct...
What is the trans code?
As early as the car is it should not have a suffix (A, B , or C) at the end of the assembly stamp. 
You say the spoiler isn't mounted correctly? How so? Is the emblem in front of the spoiler? Or no eblem at all?
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
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