Author Topic: Z28 Stripe  (Read 6978 times)

KJW468

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Z28 Stripe
« on: March 31, 2011, 03:21:16 PM »
Hello, first post here on the forum. I enjoy the whole site and look forward to collecting the knowledge of the group.

I'm in the market for a 1969 Z28 and have researched and looked for cars all over the states. What is with all the painters painting the Z28 stripes. I'm finding most of the cars have the forward or starting edge of the strip aft of the rear window an inch or so from the stainless trim on a car without a vinyl top. Isn't suppose to start some 5 inches aft of the window trim?

Thank, Keith

JohnZ

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2011, 03:29:34 PM »
Hello, first post here on the forum. I enjoy the whole site and look forward to collecting the knowledge of the group.

I'm in the market for a 1969 Z28 and have researched and looked for cars all over the states. What is with all the painters painting the Z28 stripes. I'm finding most of the cars have the forward or starting edge of the strip aft of the rear window an inch or so from the stainless trim on a car without a vinyl top. Isn't suppose to start some 5 inches aft of the window trim?

Thank, Keith

That diagram in the Assembly Manual is a well-known error, and is incorrect; the forward end of the Z/28 rear stripes is 5/8" from the back window lower reveal molding on a car without a vinyl top, and is 5/8" from the lower top trim molding on a car with a vinyl top.
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KJW468

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2011, 09:59:18 PM »
Thanks, now I am feeling better about the cars I'm seeing. Ok, what else is wrong with the manual???

Ron C.

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2011, 12:44:08 AM »
not trying to advertise here but you should get Jerrys book the definitive 69 camaro z/28 SS fact book.It shows all the things you need to know when looking for a z/28.Good luck and hope you find your z!!  here is the link to his website>  http://www.z28camaro.com/
67Z/28,67RSZ/28,71SS454CHEVELLE.

JohnZ

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2011, 02:13:09 PM »
Thanks, now I am feeling better about the cars I'm seeing. Ok, what else is wrong with the manual???

That sheet probably would have been corrected, except that work wasn't done by Chevrolet, so they didn't care about the error; the rear stripes (and the portion of the front stripes on the cowl vent panel) were done by Fisher Body, and they worked from their own Fisher Body Operation Description sheets, which were never published outside GM.
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jdv69z

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2011, 02:31:42 PM »
So is there no known record of the Fisher manual? It would be a great reference tool if one could be found.

Jimmy V.
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JohnZ

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2011, 02:41:20 PM »
So is there no known record of the Fisher manual? It would be a great reference tool if one could be found.

Jimmy V.

The full set of loose-leaf Fisher Body O.D. sheets for body, paint, and trim shop operations would be about 8" thick; they were extremely detailed.
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GaryL

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 03:35:09 PM »
........I'm in the market for a 1969 Z28 and have researched and looked for cars all over the states. ........Thank, Keith
I would recommend verifying any car you want to buy here or at Team Camaro. There is quite a knowledge base developed over the years on fake cars. Don't get caught. JMHO.
Gary

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Boston14

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2011, 11:48:10 PM »
 
So is there no known record of the Fisher manual? It would be a great reference tool if one could be found.

Jimmy V.

The full set of loose-leaf Fisher Body O.D. sheets for body, paint, and trim shop operations would be about 8" thick; they were extremely detailed.

 So John ..................... how about selling me your set!!   ;D

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asm69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2011, 12:42:58 AM »
Not so fast. I think there is more to be said about those rear stripes that start about 5 inches away from the window. Yes, the assembly manual does indicate rear stripes starting about 5 inches aft of the window trim. My own 1968 October built 1969 z/28 has those shorter stripes with the shorter rear spoiler. I have attached 4 pictures of 1969 z/28 with rear stripes about 5 inches aft of the window trim. The pic "Mycar.gif" is my car with which I was the second owner. It has the original hugger orange lacquer paint. It has never been repainted nor in an accident as far as I can tell. The rear stripes on my Z matches up almost identically with the specs from the assembly manual. The other pics attached are ones that someone sent me with camaros with shorter stripes. The pic "Short_stripe1.jpg" is a 1969 camaro with a z tag but no bumper guards, the next pic "Short_stripes2.jpg" is another 1969 with short stripes. The next best pic next to mine is "Short_stripes3.gif" which is a California z/28 with short stripes if you look carefully you can see the rear stripes are very aft of the window trim. This image looks as though it came from hot rod magazine. So, If I am correct, the only 1969 camaros that came with stripes was the z/28. And if you have an early z/28 like mine maybe those short stripes further indicate that it is a real factory z/28 with factory painted short stripes. Has John z. said, it was an error in the assembly manual, so maybe several early 1969 z/28 were produced before the error was caught. You cant argue with evidence. I have  provided at least two good pics of 1969 z28's with short stripes, the other two pics are unknown. see attachment.

asm69

first pic attached.

asm69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2011, 12:44:32 AM »
2nd pic attached.

asm69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2011, 12:44:59 AM »
3rd pic attached.

asm69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2011, 12:47:30 AM »
4th pic attached.

asm69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 12:56:48 AM »
Another quick comment. I wonder how many people who bought or owned a 1969 z28 with short rear stripes had them repainted to match the more conventional longer stripes. That may have been a mistake if more proof if provided that early 1969 z/28s had shorter rear stripes. Just like it was proven that early 1969 z/28s used the shorter 1968 rear spoiler due to the correct longer ones were not available yet.

asm69

DZ302 Chevy

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2011, 10:19:26 PM »


This is my car with the origional paint that was on it in 1971, before I had it "correctly" re-painted in 1982.
I had never seen and was not aware of the assembly manual instructions before I measured them.
Last year it was certified by MacNeish as a "very origional unmolested survivor class"  Z/28 with one repaint.  

I had kept the origional factory paint flat hood when I installed a cowl hood.  
MacNiesh spent more time looking at the hood than any other item !  He stated that the hood has an origional correct factory paint job.

Of the 4-5 Z/28's that seem to have the short rear stripes from the factory, all share the same information.

All are Z/28's
All seem to be Z/28's without a factory installed Spoiler.
All were made in LA.
All bodies were made in Late October 1968 10C or 10D (Possibly painted on the same day.)
All have stripes that match the assembly manual.
Of the three that I know the VIN numbers, they are within 500 VINs of each other.

My guess is that on one or a few days in late October 1968 someone painted the Non-Spoiler Z/28's incorrectly to match the Assembly manual instructions.

This would make only a very few were painted at the factory per the "incorrect" Assembly Manual.

Note: asm69's likely had its spoiler "dealer added" because if I remember correctly, the stripes continue to the rear lip,
and it is missing the relocated Camaro emblem.,  
mine was added in '82 when I had it re-painted.

It was easier to re-paint mine to match what was know, then try to explane why my stripes did not match others in 1982.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 11:29:37 PM by DZ302 Chevy »

asm69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2011, 12:07:07 AM »
Thanks for your post. It makes great sense. So, what should I do in respects to the rear stripes? If I leave them as is, it reflects what actually happened during a short period of time, though incorrect, it makes my 69z unique. And of course the uniqueness is added
by the short rear spoiler. I think your correct that the spoiler was added at the dealer. My trunk torsion bars are of different sizes I forgot
what this indicates? I think it  indicates that the rear spoiler was factory or dealer installed. So, what do you think. Keep stripes as is for historical reasons or update to correct length.

asm69

Gramps69Z

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2011, 01:07:00 AM »
Here's a thread on the rear spoiler (D80).  On the stripes it's your car do what you think is best.

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7285.0  ;)
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asm69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2011, 01:42:27 AM »
The thread was very interesting. I went and looked at my trunk lid torsion bars again. one is thicker than the other.
Both rods have a rubber sleve over them. Hugger orange paint overspray exists over the rubber sleves and  the end
of the rods. The rods also have trunk splatter on them as well.

Does the having orange overspray on the rods indicate that their factory rods?

Maybe I should post a picture? I'm not sure if it helps.

asm69

Jon Mello

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2011, 12:07:45 AM »
This photo from the March 1969 issue of Motorcade shows the rear stripes in yet another
configuration, basically the same as the '68 Z/28.



The "low" rear stripes definitely did happen, although it probably was only at the Van Nuys
plant. I saw several examples of '69 Zs back in the '70s with this low stripe treatment, one
in my hometown which was still in the hands of the middle aged original owner. I don't
think the CRG database has enough info at this time to determine whether these low rear
stripes were only done during a short window of time or if there were other times during
the production year when this happened but it is something that is being looked at more
closely than it has been in the past.
Jon Mello
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Jon Mello

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2011, 06:46:02 PM »
10A-built Van Nuys car in original paint with the early rear stripes.


Another original paint Burnished Brown Z with the low-style rear stripes.
Original white pin stripe around stripes but inside part of stripe has been
customized.
Jon Mello
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Mark

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2011, 03:12:37 AM »
Theres two different patterns in the above pictures, the first group of stripes only extend about an inch onto the panel between the trunk and rear glass (tulip panel?), and are spaced so that they almost touch the body seam between the quarter panel and the tulip panel on the outer edge.  Then there are the three immediately above this post that has the stripe extending almost halfway to the rear window on the tulip panel but are moved closer together probably 2 or 3" from the quarter/tulip panel body seam.
Mark C.
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Jon Mello

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2011, 03:24:46 PM »
Yes, that's what I'm trying to point out. There is not just one factory applied rear stripe pattern for the '69 Z/28. There are actually three different versions. The one that extends onto the rear "tulip" panel about an inch or two is the least understood in terms of when it was done but it is a factory applied, legitimate stripe pattern and my opinion is an owner of one of these cars should not be docked points at a judged car show event because the judges are not aware of it.
Jon Mello
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sixnineZ28

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2013, 06:55:21 PM »


This is my car with the origional paint that was on it in 1971, before I had it "correctly" re-painted in 1982.
I had never seen and was not aware of the assembly manual instructions before I measured them.
Last year it was certified by MacNeish as a "very origional unmolested survivor class"  Z/28 with one repaint. 

I had kept the origional factory paint flat hood when I installed a cowl hood. 
MacNiesh spent more time looking at the hood than any other item !  He stated that the hood has an origional correct factory paint job.

Of the 4-5 Z/28's that seem to have the short rear stripes from the factory, all share the same information.

All are Z/28's
All seem to be Z/28's without a factory installed Spoiler.
All were made in LA.
All bodies were made in Late October 1968 10C or 10D (Possibly painted on the same day.)
All have stripes that match the assembly manual.
Of the three that I know the VIN numbers, they are within 500 VINs of each other.

My guess is that on one or a few days in late October 1968 someone painted the Non-Spoiler Z/28's incorrectly to match the Assembly manual instructions.

This would make only a very few were painted at the factory per the "incorrect" Assembly Manual.

Note: asm69's likely had its spoiler "dealer added" because if I remember correctly, the stripes continue to the rear lip,
and it is missing the relocated Camaro emblem., 
mine was added in '82 when I had it re-painted.

It was easier to re-paint mine to match what was know, then try to explane why my stripes did not match others in 1982.

Hey DZ302,
I am a newbie here, I just stumbled across your post on the stripes. I have a 69 z28 RS from Van Nuys with the short stripes original paint. Unfortuanately considering selling it. Your info is useful, thank you!

MyRed67

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2013, 03:19:30 AM »
Have you seen this kind of issue with '67 or '68?
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Jon Mello

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2013, 02:05:09 AM »
I have only seen this issue with '69s. I am aware of 10D and 12A LOS cars with this stripe oddity. There may be other build weeks as well.
Jon Mello
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red69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2013, 02:02:41 PM »
My LA built 12C Z-28 without rear spoiler has short stripes

asm69

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Re: Z28 Stripe
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2013, 02:08:44 AM »
From this discussion I think their may be something to say concerning early built Van Nuy's 1969 z28's. The sentiment from this discussion indicates that those early build 69 Z28's were painted improperly, even though the Assembly manual provides those specifications. It is my opinion, that those of you who have one of these early built Z28's with the short rear stripes have a factory built 1969 Z28 Camaro. It is for sure is a rare occurrence,  and only so many exist with the short rear stripes. This alone may make those vehicles more valuable and another indication of authenticity.

 I would like to hear what Jerry M thinks about that.