Author Topic: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...  (Read 7122 times)

KevinK

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  First, ... I would like to thank Dan for emailing and making me aware of this...

  A year or so ago I came upon some documentation (including POP) for a '67 Camaro (and know a little about it's history)
   From Dan's email, ...the car does exist and is now for sale

  I am NOT looking to purchase the car, ...too many things going on and it's a 'neat' car due to some of the options, ...so it's a very good candidate for restoration.

Anyway, ...If the car was 'privately' owned, ...I would be more than happy to simply give the documentation to the owner, ...just for the 'price' of seeing the expression on their face.
The car however I believe is being sold through a dealer and/or the owner is a 'dealer'.

SO,....what to do?
...'give' the paperwork to the dealer, who in turn may jack up the price since he now has a 'fully docmented' car?
OR...
...ask the dealer to let me know who buys the car and surprise the new owner?

  Anyway, ...I'm curious of others opinions.... ?

   Thanks,
               Kevin

Pacecarjeff

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2006, 04:32:36 PM »
Don't say a word to the dealer - he will just raise the price.
Wait till the sale is done, and contact the new owner.

Or, tell your friends (like me!!) here on this site all about this car, so someone here may buy it.  ;D
PM me - I am in the market - What body style? What engine?

lakeholme

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2006, 04:43:55 PM »
I see your dilemma!  And on initial reaction, I would say "Surprise the new owner".

But my second and third thoughts are based on some questions:
As the car is being offered now, is it a reasonable price? 
Do you know something about this dealer that makes you wary?  (Yes, I know even the nicest dealer would increase the price on a documented car!)
Once the car is sold, do you think (or have some way of knowing) the dealer will reveal the buyer?  (If you ask the dealer now, he would be a fool to not ask "WHY?")
Since you have such information, is your ultimate responsibilty not to make sure that the information does not get lost?


Phillip
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dab67

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2006, 05:17:27 PM »
Tough decision!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not sure how I would handle this myself. If you are really serious about giving the paperwork to the new owner, than maybe do what "Pacer" suggests, let CRG members know the location and see if someone is intereted. Kind of like "keeping it in the family" so to speak.

KevinK

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2006, 06:02:49 PM »
  After emailing the guy selling the car, I received a call from him this morning. He doesn't appear to be a "dealer", but does have other cars for sale. After talking with him, ...he is the "owner" of the car.
   Needless to say he's a bit surprised (and obviously interested), ...heck it is almost 40 years! later, ...and "how does this guy in NY  have documents for a car located in CA?"  I talked with him in length, ...and emailed him scans of the documents, ...it's definitely a match! (VIN# and all...), ...these docs are for his car!  (once again, ...THANKS TO CRG!!! (and Dan for the heads up of course) , ...this wouldn't have been possible!!!)
 
  Since this info. is out there, ...here's the ad for the car:
 http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=8855&sort=1&cat=42&page=1
 
   Needless to say it's priced 'a bit' high, ...but anyway....
 
  Here's what I know about this car: (from the documents I have, ...and from talking with the original owner's son)
  I have original (in the plastic owners envelope) the Owner's manual; Warranty booklet (w/PoP); Custom Features Accessories Pamphlet; and Convertible Top Manual.
   The car is a '67 RS/SS 350 PG, convertible in Sierra Fawn w/White top, Gold Dlx interior. It's got PS, PB, PW, PT, rear antenna, ...and possibly a couple other little extras I forgot about.
   Anyway, ...as it was interesting that the Owner's name on the PoP was the same as the Dealer Rep., ...I contacted the person I purchased the documents from:
   ...here's his reply...

 "Hi Kevin -

This manual is from a 67 camaro SS/RS that my father bought my Mom brand new in 1967. I'm not exactly sure of the particulars, but I believe that it was purchased from a Chevrolet dealership in Wickenburg Arizona (approximately 40 miles NW of Phoenix). My parents owned the car until 1999, at which time my father sold it to someone that saw it in his hanger in S. California. At the time the car was in need of restoration, and I had no idea that he was even thinking about selling it. Talk about being disappointed! This was actually a very rare car, the first year of production for the convertible and the car had every available option (SS/RS). I think he ended up selling it for around $6K. The only mistake they made with this car during the time they owned it was exchanging the original engine for a factory crate motor in the late 70's (at least from a collectors standpoint). The car had a small block 350 with the powerglide transmission"
 
   ...so there you have it. I wish I were in the market right now, ...but I'm not (too many other things going on).
  So, ...if anyone here is serious, ...contact the seller, ...and you can tell him you know me (hey, ...we're all "family" right :) ) and you know where the documentation is.
  If anyone has any questions, you can PM me...
 
  Kevin



 

Pacecarjeff

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2006, 06:17:01 PM »
Funny how they seemed to find the original engine.  ::)

A lot of money for a wrong motor, wrong paint, wrong interior "candidate for restoration" car.

That guy is a wheeler dealer. The POP find is actually his worst daydream.
Now he will have to admit that it has a replacement block.
Don't send it to him he may destroy it. >:(
« Last Edit: May 25, 2006, 06:22:46 PM by Pacecarjeff »

Buddy

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2006, 07:54:10 PM »
Don't give up the documentation to this guy at any price. Someone is scamming big time saying original down to the carb..etc..

Later

KevinK

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2006, 09:54:23 PM »
 First, ...I haven't decided yet what to do with these documents. I don't know the guy well enough to know if they would be going into 'good hands'. I don't want to believe I'd be naive, but the guy does seem to be genuine about what he (thought he) has.

 ...In talking with him, ...it seems that when he purchased this car (about a year or so ago from what I can gather) he was told (and believed, ... up until today) that it did/does have the original components (ie. engine). From what he explained, ...it does appear the block is date and VIN 'stamped'.  Since I have the POP, ...I can tell you (as I did to him today) that the date stamped on the block may 'fit' within the timeframe of the car, ...however it does NOT match the POP.
  Again, ...since he seemed genuine about the car being #'s correct, (...and at this point feeling a bit disappointed/'cheated'  that they aren't matching) I informed him of some of the other numbers he should be looking for. (I will note here that he is located in Northern CA and the car is located in Southern CA, so he couldn't walk out to the garage and check...)
   The net of it all, ...I won't let the papers go until I feel very comfortable with this guys intent. I also don't believe the guy is intentionally 'misrepresenting' the car.  I believe it's a case of what he was told (and had no reason to disbelieve) until today...
  We will see as time goes on if the wording in his Team Camaro ad changes, ...and what transpires. I would really love to see the paperwork re-united with the car, ...especially after almost 40 years. On the other hand, ...I would absolutely HATE it if I sent the doc's and they were intentionally 'misplaced' (as Jeff hinted) only to 'cover things up'.
 
   Anyway, ...as I've said before, ...I can't thank CRG enough for the 'service' they provide to the community. None of this would ever have been uncovered...
 
  Thanks,
              Kevin
 

lakeholme

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2006, 10:18:48 PM »
Kevin, Good for you!  You're in position to do what is best... and right...

Pacecarjeff

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2006, 11:24:26 PM »
I have a good feeling that Kevin is going to do the best thing - whatever he decides.
Those doc's are in good hands.  ;D

Ed B

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2006, 12:24:00 AM »
Kevin,

No matter what you do, I would make sure a copy of the docs end up in the CRG hands. That way, even if they're "lost" at a later date, the proof will still be with us!

Ed

67ss350camaro

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2006, 11:20:11 AM »
Kevin already sent us a nice scan of the POP.  This is why/how I made the match to the car being sold :)  Now CRG has the info on the rest of the car including a picture of the cowl tag  ;D.
Daniel
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My Camaro

KevinK

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2006, 12:02:25 PM »
Kevin,

No matter what you do, I would make sure a copy of the docs end up in the CRG hands. That way, even if they're "lost" at a later date, the proof will still be with us!

Ed


  Ed,
    ...Got that done already : )
     About a year or so agon when I originally got the docs, I scanned and emailed them to CRG.
 
   
  ...I got another email from the owner last night...
     He confirmed to me that he had someone check the block stamp and it indeed was NOT as on the POP, ...I think moreso confirming to himself he was misled when he purchased the car. Anyway, as I told him I would, ...he was anxious to know if I was able to locate the guys name I bought the paperwork from. I believe he sincerely wants to find the history of the car and talk with the original owner.
  He also did mention he was cancelling his Team Camaro ad, ...and removed the car from his website as he was reconsidering his plans with it. (I did notice the Team Camaro ad is gone...)
  I'll be in touch with him within the next week, ...so I'll keep you posted.
   I'm thinking that if I do send him the paperwork, ...that I'll let him know of CRG and that the papers are on record for the car, ...etc. That there is a community of enthusiasts out there (and boy ar some of us 'out therre' :) ) that follow this stuff...
 
  Kevin
   

MMMM_ERT

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2006, 10:46:59 PM »
Well hey Kevin.  ;D

I noticed the ad for the car is down.  Anywhere I can still see pics of the car.  Where was it located in Cali?  If it's not "public record" thats okay.   I have a friend looking for a good 1st gen.

Thanks.

-Pete
1968 Camaro RS/SS 350 Coupe

KevinK

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2006, 11:56:38 AM »
Pete,
   ...from what I can gather, the guy changed his mind and no longer plans to sell it. I believe the car is located in, ...are your ready for this? ...San Diego (that might be too far for you :) ), ...but the owner is in San Fran area.
  I don't have any photos of the car (I didn't think quick enough to 'grab' them from the ad). The car was repainted Red (exterior AND interior), ...there were only two pics anyway.
 
  Kevin

Well hey Kevin. ;D

I noticed the ad for the car is down. Anywhere I can still see pics of the car. Where was it located in Cali? If it's not "public record" thats okay. I have a friend looking for a good 1st gen.

Thanks.

-Pete


MMMM_ERT

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2006, 03:04:27 PM »
Wow...right in my backyard... oh well, too bad it's not for sale any longer.

Thanks for the info!

-Pete

KevinK

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2006, 11:09:04 AM »
...well, ...I thought I'd follow up on this.
  After much thought, I made the decision and mailed the documents to the guy.
  I talked with him a number of times email and phone, ...and I believe (and can only hope) he is sincere about now wanting to keep the car.    There are times you have to put your trust in human nature in that people will do 'the right thing'. Yeah I know there are 'crooks' out there, ...but the bottom line is that most people are honest.
  The other consideration here is that this documentation IS recorded with CRG (and myself), ...and I did note that to him. To add to that, I would assume CRG will/did add a few comments to the database about this, ...noting that the block in the car currently does not match the POP, ...aside from that I believe the #'s are OK.
  Anyway, ...the documentation is now with the car and it's current owner.
  ...so for those of us (like myself) hoping one day our original documentation just might show up? ...it CAN happen... : )
 
  Kevin

lakeholme

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Re: ...your opinion??? ...I have POP, ...car is for sale elsewhere...
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2006, 12:46:48 PM »
Way to go, Kevin!  In a sense, everyone who loves cars --especially 1st Gen Camaros-- wins...