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Author Topic: Trunk Pictures of 69' Z/28, Quartered??  (Read 5401 times)
dannystarr
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« on: February 19, 2011, 11:27:07 PM »

I took some pictures of the trunk inside a 69' Z/28 I am looking at. So what is that white line. Is it a line showing sheet metal replaced? Does it look like a partial piece was put in? The drivers side looks less prominent right?...Danny
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mopar346
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 07:50:03 AM »

KInda looks like it, but it would be an amazingly clean and even butt weld if it was, so I doubt it. Should be abale to tell in person fairly easily.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 09:12:45 AM »

Your pretty handy with the camera...that is one tough spot to get a pic from. The only place that looks suspicious is what appears to be a spot weld at the top of the seam. Other than that, the color and/or aging on both sides of the seam look pretty consistant. Not sure if it helps but here is another pic of that same area.
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mopar346
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 09:29:43 AM »

Studying what Marty said, it appears it maybe the lap of the factory metals the door jamb is made of several layers of sheet metal I believe and this may just be where the inner piece stops. I will dobt check my quarters for this line.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 09:34:11 AM »

If you magnify the spot weld its clear that it was ground down. I don't think the factory would have gone through that trouble...
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mopar346
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 10:33:01 AM »

Just looked at mine, the seam is there and I know my quarters are original. Although it is too far back to be from the jamb, probably more rear window regulator area, but definitely an overlay of sheet metal from the factory. As Marty pointed out it could have been replaced and welded back, but the line should be there from what I saw.
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dannystarr
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 02:06:24 PM »

Thanx Guys, Yes the drivers side picture ya posted looks pretty similar to the drivers side in the picture I posted. And how could the light rusting/primer area be SO Consistent on both sides of that seam? It's just less than an inch away on BOTH sides. How could that be? It looks so normal and original. And how could you grind that down without the grinding wheel drifting? Hech the wheel during contact is about what that seam is...... Here are a couple more pictures. Maybe Kurt or one of the guys can combine the pictures. Keep the opinions coming as I am dieing to know, AND to learn what it should look like. And where that seam IS on the outside of the car......Danny
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 02:19:26 PM »

Spot weld grinding...Just one guys opinion Danny...nothing more {BTW, I am only referring to the top of the seam in your pic...see the Spot-Weld ?} Bet some guys wish that was all they had to be concerned with...no biggie IMO.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2011, 03:04:28 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
mopar346
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 02:44:49 PM »

And where that seam IS on the outside of the car......Danny
[/quote]

I don't believe there is an outside seam, its just where the inner panel stops. The outer panel is originally a continuous panel with a lip into the door jamb. We have the pictures you and Marty posted as well as mine all virtually exact, highly unlikely three different cars done identically after the factory. Where the my 2 cents icon?Huh
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dannystarr
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 12:53:34 AM »

Well Guys, I really don't know what to think. I sent the pictures to a friend of mine and this is his reply. Maybe he is right, or wrong?

Affirmative. Its been quartered. But before walking away, determine why. Inspect the rail for signs of rear collision damage, if there is none, perhaps negotiate a price favorable to allow future replacement of the quarter?

So he seems to think it's been quartered. I am lost now for sure Huh Huh Huh Huh.......................Danny
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mopar346
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 09:25:41 AM »

I believe it to be too clean, although it is possible. If it was it was a long time ago, judging from the uniformity of both pieces of metal as Marty pointed out. AND then you have to discount that that car, the car Marty posted and my car were all quartered in the same exact place in the same exact way and as clean and long ago, not to mention I am 99.99% sure mine are original and they are identical. Maybe others will chime in today that know for sure both I contend it is a factory overlay of an inner panel of sheet metal.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 09:30:14 AM »

Danny,

Will the owner of this car let you remove the rear seat and left rear passenger vinyl panel? You can probably determine how much damage if any was done by a close inspection of these areas. If there is still doubt...post pics of these areas and the trained eyes of the guys on this site can lead you down the right road. The more pics the merrier.

In addition, is the guy your dealing with the original owner? If not, does he have the names and contact info for previous owners? Maybe they can shed some light on the subject.

Something else I might add...if you look at your pic and then mine. Yours has gray primer in and around the seam where as mine does not. In fact, the only other color in mine is trunk spatter...for whatever thats worth.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 10:11:39 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
JohnZ
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 11:03:14 AM »

Don't over-think this thing - it's a reinforcement, bonded with structural adhesive, to the forward end of the inside of the outer quarter panel, similar to the bonded reinforcements just forward of the front corners of the trunk lid opening. Photo below of mine - the body is all-original, has never been touched, and if you look closely you can just see the edge of the reinforcement.
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dannystarr
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2011, 02:07:27 PM »

JohnZ, I have to say I did see a slight seam in your picture. However, your light surface primer and such is VERY consisdent accross that area with NO break. You can hardly see yours. Where as mine on the passenger side has a clear white line, with primer missing from both sides of it. Beleive me, I don't doubt all of your knowledge as most everyone on here forgot more then I. And you have helped me more than once. BUT, I gotta say I'm still scared until I see several pictures of 100% original cars, WITH somewhat of a prominent line. I also noticed on the outside of the car, a repair RIGHT IN THAT AREA. They didn't do a perfect job on the body work. That looks like the only spot on the whole car. I crawled all over that baby. Now the one side looks to be ok, and very similar to all of the pictures posted. But that other side is just to clean of a line for me. Thank you all for your time as always.

To answer some other q's... Car is 2 or 3 thousand miles or so away. I seen it while on vacation. Owner is probably 5th or 6th in line of ownership, and no contact info from prev. owners available. .......Danny   
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Charley
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2011, 03:01:08 PM »

I have a 29K mile 69 that has the same seam but hard to see in pics.
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dannystarr
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2011, 05:40:41 PM »

I see that Charley. But you would have to hold the camera to the right more, then shoot at a more direct angle to see it. So it's not so straight back. Maybe shoot some more closer and angled. I would be curious to see ANYBODYS car of that area on one or both sides.....Danny
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2011, 06:15:30 PM »

Here is a pic of the right quarter panel you requested.

Even though others might disagree, I am going to have to take a stand on this one. Look at the area of your pic below the weld and to the right of the seam. That metal has been manipulated, pounded and distorted. This same seam is bellowed and/or thicker than a factory seam. There are also more signs of rust than in any other spot in this general area. Again...see if you can take a look inside the rear 1/4 behind the vinyl panel. Your answer should be quite clear.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 06:35:37 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
IZRSSS
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2011, 07:11:44 PM »

Caught a glimpse of this on another pic, so I went in for a closer look {GM Label}...right 1/4 panel.
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mark x22
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2011, 07:46:06 PM »

I just looked at mine , it has that same looking thing its just a stain from water getting past the quarter window weatherstrip . feel inside you probably wont find a step like a panel would have .
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Charley
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2011, 09:25:43 PM »

I like the water stain thought. I'm too old to get my old eyes up there but will try my borescope camera tomorrow.
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Charley
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 07:33:04 PM »

Looked with the borescope and it is just one panel till about 1" from the door jamb area where there is a second layer. Open the door and remove the plastic vent and look thru that way. From the pics it looks to me like someone cheated in 1/4 panels on your car.
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dannystarr
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2011, 07:48:49 PM »

Charley, that's what I figure also. I remembered taking some pictures in that area you are talking about, behind the vents. But all the window harware is in the way. But here they are for what it's worth.
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dannystarr
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2011, 07:51:08 PM »

And a couple more. I don't remember what side is what. Maybe somebody can make heads or tails out of it.....Danny
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dannystarr
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2011, 07:51:43 PM »

And a couple more.......
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dannystarr
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 07:54:27 PM »

here they are
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Sauron327
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2011, 08:13:41 PM »

Why do you think that white water line, which my car has also, is a lap? I've owned my car for 27 years and put one GM quarter on it myself.
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jk1969z28
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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2011, 08:17:40 PM »

Here is a picture that might help for reference, prior to quarter going back on and without the outer wheel well.

Jerry K.
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mark x22
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2011, 08:31:15 PM »

That second layer  Charley is talking about is the door striker reinforcement seen in Jerry's picture in front of the rusty tube on the right of the picture .
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2011, 08:35:36 PM »

Why do you think that white water line, which my car has also, is a lap? I've owned my car for 27 years and put one GM quarter on it myself.

Just speaking for myself...it is much easier to say lap and/or seam rather than, "reinforcement, bonded with structural adhesive". Although thanks to John for chiming in so that we "ALL" know what it is. This is beside the point. Danny's concern is wether or not the quarter has been replaced. He is also concerned there could be much more serious issues at play.

I contend that the quarter has been replaced because of the irregularities of his pic as apposed to others. There is also the issue of the "weld" at the top of his pic#113 which no one has addressed. Is this a result of the 1/4 being replaced or is it simply an anchor to the support ASM? In addition, I don't think a water mark can lift the metal an 1/8" which appears to be the case towards the bottom of Danny's pic.
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Sauron327
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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2011, 09:08:30 PM »

All Danny's pictures are the same car correct? That 1/8" so called gap is right where the rust spot is. If that's what is being talked about. JPEG 232 and 113 show that spot and it's not a gap. 41 years later and rust is no surprize. It is beiong stated there is a lap where the line is. If it's been lapped where is the evidence of heat discoloration from welding, or screws if they used panel bond, or panel bond squeeze out. Exactly what that spot is that some think is a weld I cannot see clearly enough to tell. But there is another reinforcment at the quarter window right at the origin of the white line. Most people don't even know there is one unless they've been into these cars before.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2011, 09:14:14 PM »

If you blow up Danny's pic and look just beyond the weld you can see what appears to be a screw...

Nothing has been said referencing a gap. Simply stated, the metal appears elevated at the bottom of the "water mark".
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mopar346
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2011, 09:35:28 PM »

Good camera work and blow ups by you folks, I'm beginning to see everyone's opinion in the pictures, I guess it's like reading clouds. A physical inspection should tell the truth, even looking in the vent hole as mentioned or getting a hand on it. If it is where 2 metal liners meet then rust can create between them and actually separate them slightly (think threshold pinch weld).

Danny, what does the guy claim and based on what. Will he allow for a physical inspection by you or a third party. There are people who inspect cars for a living and yes some are bozos ( no offense to clowns) but what a little research and references you should be able to get someone qualified if you aren't comfortable doing it yourself.
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mark x22
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« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2011, 09:36:23 PM »

The best thing Danny can do is get inside and feel this spot , if its welded it should be easy to feel , if its a stain it will be smooth .
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2011, 07:09:16 AM »

Mark's comments have made the most sense. I hope Danny takes his advise. I also realize I have over analyzed this subject {last one- Scouts Honor}, and in the process have lost some of you. Everything I have mentioned is outlined in the pic...for whatever its worth...

In addition, I am not really sure what the big deal is. Even if it has been quartered, it certainly hasn't been the first nor will it be the last...
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 08:18:57 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
Sauron327
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« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2011, 08:38:17 AM »

That 1/8 is not a gap. It's apparent in JPEGs 230 and 232. My car has similar disclorations and the white drainage lines and irregular deposits and disclorations. The manipulated part is simply varying discloration. That is not a screw point and that panel has not been lapped there. If they lapped the panel where are the heat marks from tigging or migging? Is it being stated they lapped it and the rest of the quarter patch extends all the way to the jamb?
Anyone who actaully does their own bodywork, welding and fabrication would understand these points. I've worked on these cars, other models and countless others in the collision industry. Whose quarter panel with the GM sticker is in one of the pictures? I'm sure they know that panel has been changed even if they did not do it themself. I'm not being condescending but people with zero bodywork or metal fabrication skills should not look at cars to purchase without someone knowledgeable present. They get screwed more often that not.
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L78 steve
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« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2011, 11:11:35 AM »

Mark's comments have made the most sense. I hope Danny takes his advise. I also realize I have over analyzed this subject {last one- Scouts Honor}, and in the process have lost some of you. Everything I have mentioned is outlined in the pic...for whatever its worth...

In addition, I am not really sure what the big deal is. Even if it has been quartered, it certainly hasn't been the first nor will it be the last...

I don't have anywhere near the experience as Sauron327 but I don't see any evidence of panel replacement in the pic. above.
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dannystarr
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« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2011, 12:41:19 PM »

Well guys, I greatly appreciate all of your knowledge. I would say this, I am not as concerned with the drivers side as I am that prominent white line on the passenger side. I will still take advice on both of course. But it's that darn white line that bugs the heck out of me. And the car is WAY to far to go look, and I don't have the extra funds right now to send someone to see it. I am stretched out six different directions. I will be seeing this car again possibly in the next 2 or 3 months. And at that time you can bet I will lay in the trunk sideways and reach back as far as I can and check these area's well. AND take some more pictures. I don't have the knowledge to even guess on this. And more info is still appreciated. I am going to look at a JL8 car this weekend and for fun, I am going to see if I can do the trunk shuffle. Thanx everyone as always.......Danny 
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mopar346
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« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2011, 06:40:23 PM »

Where is it, there are members all over maybe someone can look for you. I travel for a living and might be in the area as well. Most would be glad to look at it, just for he pleasure of looking at it.
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