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Author Topic: opinions---CE block or close original  (Read 4408 times)
shupee
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« on: January 30, 2011, 08:16:45 AM »

  Thought I would ask what you guys would do. My 1968 Z28 popped the original engine when it was 6-7 months old. I know this since I talk to the original owner frequently and we've become buddies over the years. I know where the CE engine for my car is (a friend of his brother still has it), but he won't sell.
  I have the 477646 block discussed in another post which is approx. 2000 from my car.  A correct CE has surfaced on this forum. Should I buy the CE block and put all my 302 stuff in or run the MO shortblock I already have.  The car does exist that my MO is from but owner is not interested.
  opinions please  Thanks guys
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lakeholme
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 08:39:31 AM »

What's your primary goal with the car, especially since no one on either end seems interested in original?
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Phillip
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mopar346
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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 09:05:40 AM »

Since I am not up on the lingo, I will assume a CE block is a warranty replacement block for a 302. If you actually had the one that was installed under warranty and the warranty paperwork it would be about as close to numbers matching as possible. If its not the one installed and documented, a little lower on the scale but still better than a stick in the eye. If you haven't already, I would get the original owner to write as much of that kind of stuff down and have it noterized, not the best documentation but something. As far as the other numbered block, I would only use it if I couldn't afford the CE block since the car does still exist. If the guy that owns it has a change of heart, or sells it at a later date and then the new owner wets his pants to find out the original block still exist, you will have to disassemble your car to sell it too then. For the life of me I cant figure out why the owner of the other car wouldn't be interested.
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Charley
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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2011, 09:55:27 AM »

I think I would put his MO in your car. You know it is a real MO. A CE might have also been used in a non Z car.
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KurtS
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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2011, 11:27:01 AM »

Not clear cut.
But I think I'd rather run the real MO.....
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Kurt S
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2011, 11:35:01 AM »

The MO in your car is the best way to go.  The only way the CE blocks will benefit you is if you have the original dealer paperwork and invoice when it was installed.  From a judging standpoint, having an original factory stamped engine is the next best thing to having the original engine to the vehicle.  Should be dated correct for the car too.  If your car was built in April and you have a June MO engine, that's not good either, but the best way to go until you find an original that matches your car.  That is why it's always best to search out engines that are dated correct for your car.

Restoration blocks (blocks that are restamped to match the car) will net you more points at a show than a CE without dealer paperwork.

Hope this helps,

Jerry
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2011, 03:01:37 PM »

PUT THE CORRECTLY DATED MO IN IT KENNY!
Did you put a solid roller in it?
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James
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Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2011, 05:29:05 PM »

I personally like the CE option but I guess I'm in the minority.

-Jon
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Jon Mello
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2011, 06:52:07 PM »

Insert Quote
"I personally like the CE option but I guess I'm in the minority."

  Couldnt agree more. Any car could have come w a proper warranty motor, but it never could have come with someone elses motor. Plus you can sell the MO for alot more and use the money for other parts on the car to improve it .
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 01:57:48 PM »

He will be in the CE for what he is in the MO the engine is no more valuable to Ken than to any other 68 Z owner other than owner of the car to which it belongs, and he has not expressed interest in the original block. So what if the car has it's brother's engine, the engine could have been in his car, had the order come in earlier/later, it was just dumb luck his was warrantied early, could have just as well been the NY car... If he had the paperwork and/or THE CE which was warranty replaced I would be of a different opinion.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Charley
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2011, 06:15:29 PM »

But at least with a MO motor you know it started life as a Z28 engine. You don't know that with a CE.
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2011, 06:24:26 PM »

"Life is Now", so GO with the MO!    Smiley

Paul
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9T4Z
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 11:09:47 AM »

T
Restoration blocks (blocks that are restamped to match the car) will net you more points at a show than a CE without dealer paperwork.

Hope this helps,

Jerry

Wow!!  So you get bonus points for re-stamping a block.  Sounds like NCRS creeping in.  Recreating a car and getting praise for it.  Then it gets sold and muddied up and someone gets burned.  Don't like the idea that re-stamping gets you praise nor points.  I must be missing something here   Huh
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Gary 9T4Z

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ggtsvnv
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2011, 10:54:08 PM »

 I'm personally putting together a CE block for my 68 Z. For me the CE block was a lot less expensive then a MO block and looking for one that would fit time frame for the car is easier. The MO block has to be cast just prior to build date of the car (30 days or so) but the CE could be from any time frame after the car was built. Once all the correct 302 parts are in the CE it's going to run just like a MO block, so for me it made more since. Even with the MO block it is still not correct for the car.
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2011, 11:05:08 AM »

We are going to put the date correct MO (which is with-in 2000 VIN's of Kenny's VIN) in his car and do some firewall/engine compartment detailing while it's out.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
opelitis1
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2011, 04:55:23 AM »

Did not some CE blocks show the original suffix code and date of the blown engine if'n you flipped the engine over and had a peek at the starter pad??
Have a '70 replacement 9854 block for an "ET" suffix Chevelle that is stamped in this above area.
T.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2011, 11:07:08 AM »

Did not some CE blocks show the original suffix code and date of the blown engine if'n you flipped the engine over and had a peek at the starter pad??
Have a '70 replacement 9854 block for an "ET" suffix Chevelle that is stamped in this above area.
T.

The stamping on the starter pad on many (not all) "CE" blocks only indicates the engine plant and a date; there is no suffix information. The engine plant had no clue what car the block was for.
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'69 Z/28
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2011, 02:21:51 PM »

"Did not some CE blocks show the original suffix code and date of the blown engine"...............there are several 1970 coded CRR auto trans Ls6 blocks out there dated into the early 70s.
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opelitis1
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2011, 10:33:23 AM »

Good morning John!!  Got one here that is stamped maybe, by a service garage showing the suffix code "ET"  and a partial date on the starter pad.  Can put up the pics if you'd like to peruse.   
T.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2011, 11:10:43 AM »

Good morning John!!  Got one here that is stamped maybe, by a service garage showing the suffix code "ET"  and a partial date on the starter pad.  Can put up the pics if you'd like to peruse.   
T.

Sure - post the photos; I'll add them to the collection.
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'69 Z/28
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2011, 04:14:27 PM »

John,
Were "left over" engine assemblies from production "recycled back to service replacement complete engine assemblies" after production ended?
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
opelitis1
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« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2011, 09:11:24 AM »

Here you go. Again it is from a 9854 block Suffix coded ET
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JohnZ
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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2011, 11:15:45 AM »

Here you go. Again it is from a 9854 block Suffix coded ET

That's a 1970-manufactured Tonawanda "CE" 402 block, with the pad stamp from the failed engine added (crudely) by the installer; the stamp on the starter pad is a Julian date code.
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'69 Z/28
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JohnZ
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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2011, 11:24:26 AM »

John,
Were "left over" engine assemblies from production "recycled back to service replacement complete engine assemblies" after production ended?

Normally, any "leftover" production engine assemblies were returned to the engine plants to be converted to the next model year's specs, then returned to the assembly plants for production use. Complete engine assemblies (intake to pan) were only available while those engines were in active production, and weren't shown in the parts books. Besides just component parts, normally the only engines listed in the parts books were short blocks ("partial engines") and fitted blocks (just the block, pistons and rings).
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'69 Z/28
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opelitis1
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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2011, 04:08:02 PM »

Thanks John!!
Ted
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