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Author Topic: Barrett-Jackson, The Correction Factor  (Read 4922 times)
Jerry@CHP
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« on: January 24, 2011, 08:48:20 PM »

Huge correction factor on most big block cars at B-J and Russo Steele.  Hemi cars and copos are way down.  Way down. 
 
Very nice 1969 rally green copo Camaro way down...........nicest one there and one I certified with oem BE rear.  Did $107K.  Rick Henricks bought that one.  Another fathom green copo did $99K with the oem engine.  I did that certification too.  Hemi cars were really taking a bath except for the '71 convert which did 1.7 million at Russo Steele.
 
For the most part, Z28's were holding their own, the two nicest went for $75K and 80K plus commission.  Paul Kiel's Diamond Certified British green '68 Z28 sold for $56K.  That was a steal as it's one of the nicest in the country.  Bob Tyler owned it and decided to cash out on that car.  Bob has been a good client of mine for many years.  Great guy and many cars in his collection.   

Also saw many restamps and some repro cowl tags so again, it's buyer beware. 

Had a nice dinner with Bill Glowacki and the local Camaro club out there.  Great people!  Was as great time and the weather was unbeatable.
 
More later,
 
Jerry 

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68camaroz28
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 08:58:11 PM »

Welcome back Jerry! Sure seemed like the resto-mods or customs were in many cases bringing good money.
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Chick
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69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 09:27:29 PM »

Many were.  It makes you wonder what the potential buyers are thinking when they are at that event in a buying mood.

Very unpredictable.

Jerry 

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restore-z28
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 09:28:09 PM »

Jerry , I was very surprised at what the two certified COPO cars sold for, thought for sure there was some money left on the table. Almost every Z listed in the auction had a POP, that alone seemed odd and no pics of trim tags on either site. Some of the real deal ones fetched good money.
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Sonny

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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 10:22:55 PM »

I'm with Chick. Seemed like two-thirds of the cars sold on the Speed coverage had the word "custom" attached to them!
Jerry, did we just not see many of the original cars on TV? Or were customs and testiest the thing?
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Phillip
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 11:15:19 PM »

There were many restored cars but again, because Ford is a sponsor, I suspect that they broke for commercials while the other brands were on stage.  You really have to be there to see it all..........the TV coverage is nice but it does not give you a true representation of what is going on there.

I was sent there to inspect a 1970 L78 Chevelle at R/S.  That car turned out to be a real mutt.  What a shame.  They wanted big money for the car and said it was oem drive train except it had a sanded down rear axle code and 1964 transmission in the car.  Oh, and the heads were not 291's, and it did not have smog or the correct manifolds, water pump, and on and on and on..........reserve was $100K.  Car bid to $72,500.  Not worth that in the condition it was in.........

Jerry
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dutch
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 11:18:32 PM »

I didn't watch much BJ - don't have the stomach for it anymore... but the link below might make a lot of sense to insiders or those who attended - or just other bit watchers who like I who just caught a quick glimpse of big buildup to 'the ambulance' bidding sham. There always seems to be a few of these every year doesn't there?
What a farce BJ is and continues to be going forward apparently.
 
I didn't read it all - too long - but maybe of  interest to others.

Randy

 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=441525#Post441525
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Ron C.
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 09:08:12 PM »

Hi Jerry,any 67 Z28s show up for sale?
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67Z/28,67RSZ/28,69RSZ28,71SS454CHEVELLE,02Z4C35thSSCAMAROGMMG#11PERF EDITION 500HP
Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 09:56:26 PM »

No, not one!

JM
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william
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2011, 07:46:55 AM »

Take all the complaining about these auctions with a grain of salt.

This was our 3rd year in Scottsdale and it is more fun than you can imagine. The auctions are also de facto car shows with plenty of vendors and incredible atmosphere. Saturday night many head to one of the largest cruise nights in the US at Pavillions shopping center: 800-900 cars there during auction week. It is usually in the '70s; weather was great. As JM mentioned 1st Gens of AZ hosted a dinner and shop tour for us, saw more nice Camaros.

You really have to be there!
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TooManyReels
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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2011, 08:49:53 PM »

So what does this mean for the average guy trying to sell or buy an above average 67,68 or 69 z/28 car these days start between $60 to $70k or less...Since it seems to be a buyers market with most things these days I'm not sure it will hold true for all models..Nor does it mean you'll get good deal either.  Over the past three weeks not any of the nice 69 z28's listed on e-bay, got bids greater than $55k that I recall...This kinda tell me where the market seem to be at....Will owner sell or just sit on their cars....

So how does one know where to start when the seller wants a lot for a car...What rule of thumb does someone use these days to buy a car, make the low ball offer, send it up the flag pole and see that happens...

That seem to be disrespectful to the guy that has a very nice car..If I were buying I would not want to spend anymore than I would have to, but I would not want to insult a seller either...Never a good way to make friends...
TMR
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Eddie
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 12:28:40 AM »

You have to make it a full time job finding the car that you want.......period.  There were people at the auctions who bought cars with restamped engines in the $60K range.  I don't know why but they do.  I'm sure I'll get a call later after the purchase.  But then there are the good deals too.  Paul Kiel's Certified Gold, Diamond Award, ICC top flight, etc, etc 1968 Z28 sold for a very low sum of $58K plus commission.  Who ever bought that car got one of the nicest 68 Z28's in the country......and has paperwork to boot! 

Jack Scanlon sold his '69 Z28 for $80K plus comm with an original DZ engine that matched the build date of his car.  Not the original to the vehicle but he did well, and the car was stunning.  He also let $5000 of NOS weather stripping go with that car too.

No one can figure the market right now.  Z28's are holding there own, the copo cars have dropped a lot.  A buyer's market for a nice copo now.   

Jerry   
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TooManyReels
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2011, 08:50:44 AM »

Recently, I started looking at the 69 z28's..A car that I could not afford when I was a teenagers, but like many others still admire and want. Several weeks ago, I looked at a really nice 69 z and based on what I've seen so far this is the nicest car I have looked at...Right then and there I wanted it..

Like many others, I convinced myself (without asking ) and assumed that for someone to spend the kind of money that it takes to do a car right the car had to be fully documented, but not so...This car was rebuilt  (1) for the love of the car, (2) as close as possible to the real thing and (3) done without misleading anyone...I mislead myself in assuming it was fully documented. Again, like I'm sure others have done when they see the car they want...

I still want the car, but my business sense tells me to pass, my male ego tells me Oh !! go ahead its what you want...Then reality  kicks in and I asked the question we all asked ourselves..Will I be able to get my money back or most of it in a few years, especially if I don't drive it and just show it as the beauty that it is...

When it comes to classic car in this price range..I'm in tough place and not sure which way to go...At least if  I do decide to buy the car, it will be done knowing that the car is not an all original matching numbers car, and I will have no one to blame but myself..

TMR
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Eddie
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jl8dale
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2011, 09:46:09 AM »

There are tons of cars out there to choose from and they don't have to be numbers matching or documented for you to enjoy them. Of course, the price should reflect no docs or an NOM engine, but that shouldn't discourage you from buying these cars if it's what you like and what you can afford.
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1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2011, 09:56:02 AM »

Like I said, make it a full time job trying to find the car that you want.  You might get lucky and find one reasonable.  I flew into Vegas a few days before BJ for a client who was a very smart buyer.  He flew in and looked at the car and then hired me to go over the car with a fine tooth comb.  He bought the car for $50K and it's basically a 60,000 mile Z28 with one repaint, all original mint interior and all of the hard to find engine components are there.  Cars are still out there for a reasonable price, especially now.

I also tell people buy the car because you love it and want one.  If you worry about what it will be worth in five years, you're taking the wrong approach.  We never knew these cars would be worth anything when I bought my new Chevelle out of high school, and then my '69 Z28 in March 1972 for $1400.00.

I also have another passion in life in the world of musical instruments.  When I was a kid, I bought a used late '50's early '60's Fender Stratocaster guitar.  $175.00 in 1966.  I'll never forget it.  Eventually I sold it to buy headers and junk for my Chevelle.  I always regretted that.  Well, now I'm looking to replace that guitar and it's one of the last items on my bucket list in life.  And it has to be mint and original.  If you plug in Fender Stratocaster guitars on Ebay, 1950's models, the prices make Z28's look like you're buying a loaf of bread!  Nice ones back to 1954, $100K, but many who sell are on a fishing expedition, just like the car sellers.  I did find one that I'm going to look at in upstate NY for somewhere in the high $20K range.  Do I know where I'll be invested in that guitar in five years.  No, but if you look long and hard enough for what you want, I believe that you'll find it.  Yeah, $27K is a lot of money for an old used Fender guitar but it's a lot better than what most are asking for on Ebay, $50K and up.  In my mind, I can justify it at that price.

Then I have to get the guitar inspected and appraised.  George Gruhn of Gruhn Guitars in Nashville is the guy who does guitar inspections, like I do for Camaros.  Well, you can't even get him on the phone.  Talk about someone who is hard to reach........But I will have a contract written on this guitar if I buy it, and if something is not original and not was it was represented to be, I will get a full refund.  Then I have to figure out how to get a very old expensive original guitar down to Nashville in this cold climate to be certified.  Another hobby but the same issues that we deal with in the Camaro world.  It's much more complicated with rare musical instruments though.

Jerry  




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vtfb68
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2011, 10:30:26 AM »

TMR,
 Insult the seller.... Look at the prices the SELLERS have/had been insulting the buyers with !! "No" has never hurt me- spent my teenage years hearing a lot of that.
 Victor
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2011, 11:09:14 AM »

Like I said, make it a full time job trying to find the car that you want.  You might get lucky and find one reasonable.  I flew into Vegas a few days before BJ for a client who was a very smart buyer.  He flew in and looked at the car and then hired me to go over the car with a fine tooth comb.  He bought the car for $50K and it's basically a 60,000 mile Z28 with one repaint, all original mint interior and all of the hard to find engine components are there.  Cars are still out there for a reasonable price, especially now.

I also tell people buy the car because you love it and want one.  If you worry about what it will be worth in five years, you're taking the wrong approach.  We never knew these cars would be worth anything when I bought my new Chevelle out of high school, and then my '69 Z28 in March 1972 for $1400.00.

I also have another passion in life in the world of musical instruments.  When I was a kid, I bought a used late '50's early '60's Fender Stratocaster guitar.  $175.00 in 1966.  I'll never forget it.  Eventually I sold it to buy headers and junk for my Chevelle.  I always regretted that.  Well, now I'm looking to replace that guitar and it's one of the last items on my bucket list in life.  And it has to be mint and original.  If you plug in Fender Stratocaster guitars on Ebay, 1950's models, the prices make Z28's look like you're buying a loaf of bread!  Nice ones back to 1954, $100K, but many who sell are on a fishing expedition, just like the car sellers.  I did find one that I'm going to look at in upstate NY for somewhere in the high $20K range.  Do I know where I'll be invested in that guitar in five years.  No, but if you look long and hard enough for what you want, I believe that you'll find it.  Yeah, $27K is a lot of money for an old used Fender guitar but it's a lot better than what most are asking for on Ebay, $50K and up.  In my mind, I can justify it at that price.

Then I have to get the guitar inspected and appraised.  George Gruhn of Gruhn Guitars in Nashville is the guy who does guitar inspections, like I do for Camaros.  Well, you can't even get him on the phone.  Talk about someone who is hard to reach........But I will have a contract written on this guitar if I buy it, and if something is not original and not was it was represented to be, I will get a full refund.  Then I have to figure out how to get a very old expensive original guitar down to Nashville in this cold climate to be certified.  Another hobby but the same issues that we deal with in the Camaro world.  It's much more complicated with rare musical instruments though.

Jerry 






Wow, another guitar guy. I knew you played drums. Do you play, or just collect guitars? My passions are the same, "cars and guitars". Hard to decide how to spend my limited time. Been to Gruhns. I was like a kid in a candy store without money; those instruments are way out of my league.

Jimmy V.
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2011, 11:45:27 AM »

Really a drummer professionally but I have always played guitar too.  Not near a proficient on guitar, but good at that old Ventures and Fireballs stuff.  I ain't no Doyle Dykes or Chet Atkins though.........LOL.  I have a bunch of old Fender amps and guitars in the music room. 

I drove eight hours to see D. Dykes perform about two years ago.  He is considered by many one of the greatest guitar players of all time now.  Tommy Emmanual is also up the food chain.  Doyle played was asked to play at the Grand Ol' Opry when C. Atkins passed away to do a tribute show for him.  He's also the rep for Taylor guitars.

I know that many rock & roll fans consider the BIG name guitarists the best, names like E. Clapton, J. Hendricks, Jeff Beck, M. Knoffler, etc.  But in the world of the players who can finger pick and sound like three guitar players at the same time, not even in the same zip code.  Pull up D. Dykes on you tube and decide for yourself.  Dykes and Emmanual actually have a performance where they are playing two songs at the same time.........something that C. Atkins did first.

Oh, the guitar I'm looking at is only 12 serial numbers off the one that B. Holly used up until he was killed.  Holly's was #28228, the one I'm lookin into buying is #28240.  It's almost a number's matching unit to Hollys!  LOL

Jerry
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william
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2011, 11:55:33 AM »

Smokey Yunick had an expression: "The sun don't shine on the same dogs' ass all the time."

First it was Model Ts, then Model As, baby 'birds, 64-66 Mustangs, 55-57 Chevys. Every "collectible" car rises, peaks, descends in value. Camaros and all Muscle Cars will be no different. Third Gen Camaros are turning up at auctions.

As JM said buy one because you always wanted it, not as an investment. The #1 factor to keep in mind when buying is you will also want to get off it some day. Quality will always sell.
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jdv69z
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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2011, 09:45:59 AM »

Really a drummer professionally but I have always played guitar too.  Not near a proficient on guitar, but good at that old Ventures and Fireballs stuff.  I ain't no Doyle Dykes or Chet Atkins though.........LOL.  I have a bunch of old Fender amps and guitars in the music room. 

I drove eight hours to see D. Dykes perform about two years ago.  He is considered by many one of the greatest guitar players of all time now.  Tommy Emmanual is also up the food chain.  Doyle played was asked to play at the Grand Ol' Opry when C. Atkins passed away to do a tribute show for him.  He's also the rep for Taylor guitars.

I know that many rock & roll fans consider the BIG name guitarists the best, names like E. Clapton, J. Hendricks, Jeff Beck, M. Knoffler, etc.  But in the world of the players who can finger pick and sound like three guitar players at the same time, not even in the same zip code.  Pull up D. Dykes on you tube and decide for yourself.  Dykes and Emmanual actually have a performance where they are playing two songs at the same time.........something that C. Atkins did first.

Oh, the guitar I'm looking at is only 12 serial numbers off the one that B. Holly used up until he was killed.  Holly's was #28228, the one I'm lookin into buying is #28240.  It's almost a number's matching unit to Hollys!  LOL

Jerry

Don't Know Doyle, but am certainly familiar with Mr. Atkins. From what I understand, he was influenced by one Merle Travis. I have learned (and am still learning) some of that style from Arlen Roth, both on his tapes and at Gibson.com. It sounds awesome when you can pull it off. It astounds me how much there is to learn, and how there is always something new to learn in music. Hope you get your Strat. As one of my friends likes to say: "it's what you work for."

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2011, 08:55:05 PM »

Last time I checked there was no promise for tommorrow!! And after you're gone somebody else will be banging those gears and your wife!!
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LB68SS350
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« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2011, 12:36:32 AM »

Jerry- Good luck finding the Stratocaster you want, I hope it works out. I almost bought one in '72, when I first started playing guitar, but bought a new Gibson SG instead. I had no idea vintage guitars were bringing that much!    Larry
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