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Author Topic: Does this Trim Tag look legitimate?  (Read 3770 times)
sdkar
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« on: January 19, 2011, 03:01:02 PM »

1969 Camaro Indy Pace Car. 

http://www.ocamc.com/InventoryDetail/Show/2834965/1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z-11-Pace-Car-North-Canton-Ohio-44720

The VIN and the build date do not seem to ad up.  Shouldn't the build date be 02D?  Also, the trim tag rivets look questionable and the font doesn't appear correct either. 

Could this trim tag be a fake?  Any opinions?

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IZRSSS
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2011, 03:11:13 PM »

They did such a bad job spot welding the rivet on the left that they didn't want to risk ruining the one on the right. I'll bet you could pop the one on the right without too much effort.
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jl8dale
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 04:00:18 PM »

I discussed this tag with Kurt a couple of weeks ago and it is a fake. This car has been for sale for quite a while and when I was interested about 2 years ago, it was priced at $69,900.
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1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
Mark
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 04:34:40 PM »

Man, I though it was going to be a challenge.  Stevie Wonder could tell that was a fake tag.

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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 04:35:57 PM »

Should you add the fake Window Sticker to the Discussion as well:

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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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jl8dale
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 04:52:06 PM »

Yes, Kurt also mentioned that!
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1969 Z/28 Daytona Yellow/Yellow Houndstooth, Tilt, Fold Down Seat, - POP
1969 Pace Car Original & Highly Optioned - Chassis Broadcast Sheet
restore-z28
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 05:38:41 PM »

Amazing, not only is the trim tag a fake but the window sticker. I like the effort they used to try and add the patina to the window sticker.
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Sonny

1969 Z28 Camaro
1970 Z28 Camaro

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dannystarr
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2011, 03:43:20 AM »

I mentioned long ago in one of my first posts...I always smell the paper. It has that certain scent to it that newer paper of course does not have. And the best way is to have it in a folder that is sealed or near sealed prior to the sniffing. But yes, the water spotting is a nice effort.
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2011, 02:34:26 PM »

VIN:  124679N612076

Paul
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sdkar
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« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2011, 06:08:32 PM »

According to my calculations, the build date code should be 02D.  So my guess is that this car is not even a true Z11, but is a convertible made up to look like a pace car.  If it was a true pace car, and the trim tag was damaged and needed to be replaced, the person ordering the trim tag would at least have the old tag to transfer the info.  Anyone think I am wrong or have a theory?  I mean other than this is an obvious attempt at faking a pace car in the hopes of taking a reasonably valued 69 Camaro RS convertible, which is still worth good money, and trying to make just a few dollars more.  I guess a couple years ago, a pace car was a $10K to $20K premium, but no longer.  

I noticed this fake tag right off just by looking at a few tells that I won't mention as I'm not giving out this info so someone else can use it to make a better fake.  Luckily, those of us that know these cars and can spot these fakes easily enough are typically not the ones looking to screw someone over with a faked Camaro.  

Also, is this the quality of trim tag you would get from the guys at trimtags.com?    I thought they wouldn't make a tag unless you could prove the car you wanted it for was the same as what you wanted them to make.  What is trimtags.com's requirements?  How do they do business?  Does trimtags.com do better work than this?  I hope that the guys that can do a trim tag good enough to pass the test have a good reputation for not just making a tag without asking questions and demanding proof.

Has anyone seen this car for sale with a different tag?  
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 10:51:56 PM by KurtS » Logged
tom
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 07:02:23 PM »

My 2D is body number: 266605. According to the tag photo, this car was ordered almost 48000 cars before my 2D, but built more than 10000 units later according to the vin. I know they were not built in order, but that seems like a big difference to me.
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69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2011, 08:26:30 PM »

I think we can sit here all day long and pick this car apart. What amazes me is no one, unless I'm wrong, has made an attempt to contact the seller to at least research the cars history. I think this can begin by letting the seller know that you are interested in purchasing the car. One of your requirements prior to purchase is a thourough research of the cars documentation, prior owner and/ or owners, a look at the drivetrain , and any other clues that will back our claims. There is no question in my mind this conversation with the seller would be short lived. We all agree this is a fake, but this isn't the issue. Since I am new to this site, I have absolutely no idea if there is a person, persons, or members, that not only keep track of these practices, but also follow through by contacting the proper authorities.  

One of the categories of this site that has amazed me from day one is the "Orphans" category, and to say this is a great and unique service would be an understatement. On the other side of the coin, (not sure about the legal ramifications for beginning something like this) would it be possible to begin another topic under the heading..."Buyer Beware" (or something similar)? Sounds like a difficult pursuit in every aspect, but I think it would be a great addition to an already significant site.   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 10:52:25 PM by KurtS » Logged
mopar346
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2011, 09:34:40 PM »

There are people who keep up with rebodies, VIN swaps, restamps and such int he Mopar world, I would be very surprised if there aren't Camaro oriented folks that do the same. Most of us registered our VINs and I am sure tanted ones have been regsistered as well.
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KurtS
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« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2011, 10:06:57 PM »

..... would it be possible to begin another topic under the heading..."Buyer Beware" (or something similar)? Sounds like a difficult pursuit in every aspect, but I think it would be a great addition to an already significant site.
I wouldn't touch that 'with a 39 1/2 foot pole'. The liability is huge, and if you're wrong....
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Kurt S
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2011, 06:31:58 AM »

I'll probably regret asking this but why 39 1/2?
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jdv69z
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2011, 09:15:04 AM »

I believe it's the "Grinch Who Stole Camaro Christmas", right?
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2011, 09:36:47 AM »

Not what I was hoping for...just thought it was an inside joke, kinda like my Caution sticker on the shroud... Smiley

In addition, I fully understand Kurt's liability concerns.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 10:18:43 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
IZRSSS
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2011, 12:55:25 PM »

I believe it's the "Grinch Who Stole Camaro Christmas", right?

I stand corrected...Grin

http://www.epinions.com/review/_2000338820/mvie-review-221F-D5B77D0-39289733-prod5
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9T4Z
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2011, 10:03:17 AM »

Why not list it as a 'tribute car'?   Why the big lie?  ... it's nice overall and I agree, there's not much premium to a Pace Car;  unless it is completely documented.
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Gary 9T4Z

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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2011, 11:50:26 AM »

The trim tag and window sticker are not original to the car.  They are reproductions.  That is a fact and can be proved without question.  This is what I do for a living.  If there are issues with the seller about the posts here.  I will be glad to do an on-site inspection of the car providing the seller pays me for my time for a full inspection.

Jerry MacNeish
Camaro Hi-Performance, Inc.
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