Author Topic: AIM?  (Read 5824 times)

IZRSSS

  • Guest
AIM?
« on: January 07, 2011, 01:52:49 AM »
I purchased my '69 AIM several years ago from Classics Ind. There are a couple of issues; for one, the print at the bottom of most pages are difficult to read, and two, it's missing several pages. Is there anyone out there who has found a good quality reprint? And if so...who did you purchase it from?

Thanks
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 02:47:33 AM by IZRSSS »

BlackoutSteve

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 09:41:58 AM »
You will find that the printing is a bit poor on several pages. What you have I expect is normal. I have 3 copies and they are all the same.
Also, what paages do you think you are missing?
Are you looking for missing chapter pages (that might not actually be missing pages) or missing numbered pages?

I will happily scan and email what you need.  :)
Restoring my RHD 69 Jane in Melbourne, Australia.
http://www.usmuscle.com.au/Forum/showthread.php?t=2840

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 12:29:53 PM »
Steve,

I managed to find the missing pages on-line ('69) but the site I'm on takes forever to load, and doesn't allow copying. Offering to scan and email the missing pages is a very kind gesture! If you have the pages in the following list please let me know and I will PM you my email address.

  • D33
  • A01
  • A30
  • D80 {missing A2}
  • U15 {very poor quality}
  • C08

    Thanks again,

    Marty


      

BlackoutSteve

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 01:42:13 PM »
That's what I thought. You aren't missing any pages from your book. Those chapters are not included.

D80 A2 for example..
D80 A1 is page 247 and D90 A1 is page 248. D80 A2 is not included.

Here is a pic I have taken of U15 A1.
How does it compare to the quality of yours?

(click on the image when it fully loads to see it in 1200x1600 or I can scan in a better image as this is a photograph. Otherwise try http://www.scribd.com/doc/32913817/69-Camaro-AIM )
Restoring my RHD 69 Jane in Melbourne, Australia.
http://www.usmuscle.com.au/Forum/showthread.php?t=2840

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2011, 01:49:53 PM »
Like night & day! Your AIM looks like its attached to a binder and/ or a book. My copies are loose. In addition to my pages being of poor quality...they aren't numbered. Can you tell me how you aquired yours?

BTW, the link you posted is the same one I was using.





« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 02:17:24 PM by IZRSSS »

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2011, 06:49:33 PM »
Have you read this?

http://www.camaros.org/AIM.shtml

Each UPC group (0 through 14) and each option that has more than one sheet starts with a "contents" sheet (A1) that lists all the sheets in that section and what's on each sheet; if the group only has one sheet, A1 won't have any "contents" - just a regular illustration sheet. If you go to the "option index" section (follows UPC 14), you'll note that many of the listed options have an asterisk (*) in the margin - that means they aren't illustrated, mostly because they're Fisher Body-installed; the AIM only covers Chevrolet-installed parts.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

lasereye

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2011, 07:02:04 PM »
Mine is a bound soft cover book. Picked it up at the local Goodguys swap meet. $15-20 bucks. I believe most of the big First Gen part suppliers carry it.

lakeholme

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2256
  • 68-12D L30/M35
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2011, 07:10:23 PM »
Some loose leaf editions are multiple copies away from the original, and thus not as legible. There is another thread where I hoped we could get some idea of who has better copies, but it never went that far.
Phillip, HNR-AACA, Senior Master, Team Captain
Charlotte Autofair, Sept 24-27, 2015
Southeastern Spring Meet Chair, April 9, 2016
Sentimental Tour Host, June 12-17, 2016

BlackoutSteve

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 10:14:42 PM »
That's a great article John. Thanks to you & Art Armstrong.  :)

Marty, all of my AIMs are as good as each other and are all the book-bound style with the green header. (1969) Admittedly, some detail is lost to poor printing, but overall, very good and easily legible.
I have three copies. One in the garage that I use for assembly, one inside with me here for researching or sharing info on-line. and one that was my first copy and totally worn-out and fallen apart because I used it so much!  ;D They are such a valuable source of information.

Perhaps grab a book-bound copy as it seems the printing may be better than what you have..
There are plenty on eBay and they look like this..  ;)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CAMARO-1969-Assembly-Manual-69-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem43a0f4a0cdQQitemZ290463195341QQptZMotorsQ5fManualsQ5fLiterature



Restoring my RHD 69 Jane in Melbourne, Australia.
http://www.usmuscle.com.au/Forum/showthread.php?t=2840

Gramps69Z

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 625
  • 69 X33 D80
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 10:34:26 PM »
Found mine on eBay.  Book bound copy and very readable as Steve stated
Captain John Wykoff
Destin Fire     5 months  to go

I'm sick and tired of mismanagement and disappointment. 
I'm a COWBOYS fan.

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 11:15:56 PM »
Steve, I really appreciate the information on the "book bound style, green header". As far as I'm concerned, if all the pages are similar to the one you posted (U15), this is exactly what I'm looking for. Just want to make sure...is it a copy off of this same book? If it is I'll buy it now.

Phillip...Looks like we finally found one that's as good as they come. According to the write up on eBay, its the best quality out there.

Thanks John W. for the eBay info. In fact, the link that Steve posted leads you right to it.

JohnZ, thank you for directing my attention to your article. Like Steve said, great read.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 11:49:22 PM by IZRSSS »

BlackoutSteve

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 02:07:03 AM »
Yes, the U15 A1 that I posted is extremely typical of the overall quality.  ;)

I'm glad I have seen this thread. A few times on these forums, other members have complained about the quality of printing in the AIM, and asked what I considered to be obvious questions, because I've always seen the information very clearly.
Makes me think now that perhaps those members have had the loose-leaf style AIM like your one where the printing is not so good.

Good luck Marty.
Restoring my RHD 69 Jane in Melbourne, Australia.
http://www.usmuscle.com.au/Forum/showthread.php?t=2840

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 02:12:36 AM »
Just purchased it...thanks again Steve!

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3623
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2011, 04:16:20 AM »
I have old loose-leaf 67 and 68 AIMs and the quality is fine. But they are 15-20 years old.
I saw the 67 and 69 originals at GM a few years ago. The 68 version was a copy, IIRC.
Kurt S
CRG

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2011, 11:46:25 AM »
I'll t-phone a local GM dealership today to see if these (originals) can still be purchased.

Thanks Kurt.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 12:06:19 PM by IZRSSS »

lakeholme

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2256
  • 68-12D L30/M35
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2011, 01:05:10 PM »
Marty,
If GM dealers can offer copies closer to the original, let us know. My 68 loose leaf is fine, except for some of the notes. Btw, mine is a little over 10 years old.
Phillip, HNR-AACA, Senior Master, Team Captain
Charlotte Autofair, Sept 24-27, 2015
Southeastern Spring Meet Chair, April 9, 2016
Sentimental Tour Host, June 12-17, 2016

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2011, 03:06:33 PM »
Will do...this might take a while...

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2011, 04:41:58 PM »
I'll t-phone a local GM dealership today to see if these (originals) can still be purchased.

Thanks Kurt.

GM dealers won't have it - they never used it, and it wasn't available to them; it was only used in the assembly plants and at Engineering.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2011, 05:06:05 PM »
I contacted two local GM dealers. Both suggested I give Helm Inc. a call. Unfortunately they are closed for business on weekends. Their phone number is; 1-800-782-4356. I will try them again on Monday.

Not sure if its true, but according the guys I spoke to, this company made and/or printed the AIM's for GM. Any truth to this?

bertfam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2011, 06:43:01 PM »
Look in the back of your owner's manual and you'll see that HELM, INC was (and still is) the original publisher for service literature for GM (as well as other companies) cars and trucks. Shop manuals, owner's manuals, overhaul manuals, service manuals, etc... However, I don't believe they have anything for the first genenration Camaro any longer except the shop and overhaul manuals.

Ed

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2011, 07:26:20 PM »
Found it in the back of the OM, just as you said. Very cool. Are they still located in Detroit Michigan?

Even though they probably do not carry 1st gen AIM's, I would still like to talk to them. Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky. At the very least, I would like to see which source or sources they recommend.

Thanks Ed
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 08:55:55 PM by IZRSSS »

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3623
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2011, 04:47:10 AM »
Helm never produced it and won't know about it.
I saw *the* originals that GM had on-file in their archives.
Kurt S
CRG

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2011, 11:10:24 PM »
Can someone please tell me how I can tell the difference between a original AIM and a copy?

bertfam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 03:10:31 AM »
Marty, they're ALL copies. The original is/was owned by Chevrolet and never released to the general public. Some copies are better than others and as a general rule (but NOT always the case), the bound versions are usually better than the three ring versions.

Ed

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 03:17:15 AM »
A friend of mine who owns a dealership claims he can order me the original AIM's. It makes perfect sense there is only one original and the other as you say are copies. I guess what I'm asking is... what should I look for in a better than mass produced copy? Is it simply a matter of bound vs ring versions? And...are there copies that were made specifically for the two assembly plants that some dealerships still have access to? If this is the case, is there something printed on these that will identify them as such?

Thanks Ed
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 03:55:02 AM by IZRSSS »

bertfam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2333
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2011, 04:03:08 AM »
Quote
A friend of mine who owns a dealership claims he can order me the original AIM's.

I highly doubt it. Yes, he can get you one from the same places we all get them and then jack up the price to sell it to you, however, if he can get an authentic GM copy, let me know!! I'll be second in line! Have him order one for you and see if it's any good or not. How much does he want?

As far as I know, there was only one manual used at both plants.

Ed

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2011, 04:20:35 AM »
Ed...PM sent.

Incidentally...if these are authentic, you are 5Th in line; Kurt, John, Phillip, me, and then you. ;)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 04:48:01 AM by IZRSSS »

BlackoutSteve

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2011, 12:31:06 PM »
..and then me.  ;D
Restoring my RHD 69 Jane in Melbourne, Australia.
http://www.usmuscle.com.au/Forum/showthread.php?t=2840

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2011, 04:01:21 PM »
Need some help putting some meat on this bone...How do I know if what is being offered to me is a authentic GM copy? Is there a printing company, font, certain paper, hardback cover or anything that sets these apart from your run-of-the-mill eBay $20.00 copy?

JohnZ

  • CRG Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2011, 04:33:44 PM »
Need some help putting some meat on this bone...How do I know if what is being offered to me is a authentic GM copy? Is there a printing company, font, certain paper, hardback cover or anything that sets these apart from your run-of-the-mill eBay $20.00 copy?

There are NO authentic GM copies - those only exist on microfiche in the Chevrolet Engineering archives. What we have today are copies of copies of copies of Assembly Manuals that were left behind when plants and offices closed. Although each year Assembly Manual for each carline has a GM part number, they were never available through the GM parts system; they were only sent to users through internal Chevrolet distribution channels that needed them. Anyone who claims otherwise is pumping smoke and mirrors. I worked with the AIM's every day for many, many years.
'69 Z/28
Fathom Green
CRG

IZRSSS

  • Guest
Re: AIM?
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2011, 05:02:31 PM »
This just about takes all the wind out of my sail. Sorry guys I gave it my best shot....

Thanks John...This "friend" was also going to charge me twice the going rate.

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3623
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2011, 06:32:43 PM »
The versions in the GM archives that I saw were not on microfiche, but original vellum. Copies got released to the parts vendors somehow and people have been making copies of the copies ever since....
Kurt S
CRG

tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1144
    • View Profile
    • Discount Internet Services
Re: AIM?
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2011, 07:12:06 PM »
Sure would be nice if the General would authorize reproduction direct from the microfiche.......
Personally quality being equal, I would prefer loose leaf in a binder. Would be easy enough to copy pages to use in the garage as needed. Digital would be even better.
69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speed
o

lakeholme

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2256
  • 68-12D L30/M35
    • View Profile
Re: AIM?
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2011, 09:55:17 PM »
Marty,

Just sent you a PM.
Phillip, HNR-AACA, Senior Master, Team Captain
Charlotte Autofair, Sept 24-27, 2015
Southeastern Spring Meet Chair, April 9, 2016
Sentimental Tour Host, June 12-17, 2016

BillOhio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
    • photobucket
Re: AIM?
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2015, 08:57:06 PM »
So I am hating not being able to read anything at the bottom of the pages. Mine is the loose leaf version. I saw the one on ebay that has the green bands at top and bottom and saw one that had blue bands across the top and bottom.  anyone have an opinion on the blue or green?
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible

69pace

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 437
    • View Profile
    • TeamCamaro - Moderator
Re: AIM?
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2015, 05:09:52 PM »
Wow this is an old thread but what you find out there is a mix of GM licensed and boot-legged reprints.

I bought my first AIM at a swap meet back in 1982. It is loose leaf bound with plastic binder. I was an obvious Xerox copy of an original and it is printed on green paper. While it was bound with a plastic binder spine, the pages and the cover were also 3 hole punched so you could take it apart and stick it in a standard notebook binder. It was 25 bucks.

I bought another swap meet one that was professionally bound like a real book but again the quality is bad on some pages but different ones then the first. This AIM has a green cover (same picture as the other one I already had) and is printed - again a Xerox copy - on white paper. Item number MP74 for $19.95 since the hand written price tag is still on the cover.

While I had a boot-legged copy on PDF that someone gave me, I wanted a legal digital copy and ordered the official copy from Dave Graham Auto Literature. I ordered 1969, but the disc has all three years, and at the time I placed my order they included a free copy of the printed 1969 AIM version so it was a win win win for me and it was cheap. $22.99 plus shipping from their 800 number.  Still on-sale through their website and Amazon. http://davegrahamauto.com/ Word to the wise the catalog is HUGH and takes 5 to 10 minutes to download, but you can call them for what you want.

Why keep 4 printed copies?  Well I keep one in the garage, one in the library, one at my desk and a spare in my room. I use the PDF a lot to snap pages to JPEGS for posting over at Team Camaro as the legal digital version has too many security hoops to jump through to get a copy of a page made. I guess the answer is to say I use all my copies to find hopefully one that has a clear copy of whatever page I'm trying to use. Out of my collection the legal printed and digital copy are the cleanest print wise but still some of the change logs at the bottom are hard to make out.
     
1969 Z-11 350/300 with 4 Speed
TeamCamaro - Moderator

BillOhio

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
    • photobucket
Re: AIM?
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2015, 10:34:58 PM »
Thank you I will check that out. I searched and this was the closest I could find. 
1969 Z28, Burgandy, numbers matching, 12,900 miles
1967 Plymouth GTX Hemi, 4 speed, dana
1961 Chrysler 300G convertible