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Author Topic: VIN #'s ; Order of Assignment & Locations  (Read 3800 times)
RPOZ11
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« on: December 26, 2010, 04:08:34 PM »

 VIN #'s ; Order of Assignment & Locations

I would like to start this thread to discover & determine VIN information related to every car receiving one; IE : GM Chevrolet vehicles ( 1960-1981 )
In particular, I am searching this order for the 1967-1969 Camaros;  but not limited to these years and model.

A Vehicle Identification Number, commonly abbreviated to VIN (but sometimes incorrectly referred to as VIN number), is a unique serial number used by the automotive industry to identify individual motor vehicles. ( From WikiPedia-2010 )

Obviously we see GM used different regional locations to manufacture their cars.

I would to start out by determining when the :

1. VIN is established
2. In what order did the vehicle receive the VIN
3. What vehicles received which numbering systems
4. Who is responsible for the numbering
5. Locations where the VIN is established throughout the vehicle

Question :

Did the VIN tag on the Dash panel come first?

-OR-

Did the VIN # assigned to a Chevrolet vehicle : was it stamped on the Body prior to the VIN Tag on the dash panel?
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VN Pacecar 396 M20 #'s

X44, CE-427, M20, C BE, 712 50 50
dannystarr
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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2010, 07:56:53 PM »

With all due respect.......Wow, that sure is alot of info needed. I would say I might be able to answer most of those question's, however I am not sure if that would be wise, on this site or other. Ya better wait for JohnZ, Jerry M., Paul, and the other top few amigos on here to make that call. Sometimes it hurts the hobby with reguard to people trying to duplicate info for incorrect cars. I learned my lesson already.

Hey look, you mentioned about the VIN and turned right around and did the same thing...too funny....   you wrote,"Did the VIN #   Grin   ......Danny
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2010, 09:09:51 PM »

RPOZ11,
You might want to spend some time on the link below to familiarize yourself with GM's assembly plant process. Most of the questions you are searching for...for the exception of '60-'66 & '70-81 can be found here. Also keep in mind this is a First Generation specific site. In addition, if you are able to refine your search/or your question, viewers would have a better understanding of what you are inquiring about.

If the only information you are searching for is simply your question concerning the VIN, you can find it on this same link under the headings of; "Chevrolet Overview" & "Body Bank Operations". Hope this helps.

BTW, Welcome aboard...

 http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 10:42:14 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
RPOZ11
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 03:03:58 AM »

OK, interesting read.

I will go over it a few times so that I have it all right in my head; as to the order and such.

So, would it be correct that the body was given the VIN stamping prior to the VIN tag on the dash panel?

IE : Body, Dash Panel, Engine/Transmission combo? In this order? As it is moving down the assembly process?

If so, what would be a fair amount of time during a run would the timeline be where these were all done?
IE : Body one day, dash panel the next day, eng/trans combo the following day?
Or did this this happen all within a few hours going down the assembly line?
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VN Pacecar 396 M20 #'s

X44, CE-427, M20, C BE, 712 50 50
IZRSSS
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« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2010, 08:46:24 AM »

So, would it be correct that the body was given the VIN stamping prior to the VIN tag on the dash panel?
Order of the VIN; VIN Assigned - VIN Plate Installed (dash) - Engine, Transmission,= Partial VIN. Not sure about the body stamp.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 09:06:49 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
Mark
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2010, 09:01:37 AM »

Body took about 1 1/2 days to go thru the fisher side of the plant (Norwood) and arrive at the GM side of the plant and it took about another day for the completed car to roll out the back door of the plant on its way to the shipping area.  The VINs were assigned at the instant the body arrived at the GM side of the plant after Fisher finished with their work on the body and the hidden VINs on the body were stamped at this time.  The body then recieved a sequence number that was just a sequentioal number from 1 to 900 or so, it was rest to 0 every day at the start of the first shift.  This number is often found on the inside surface of the front fender extension panels so the right front end got on the right body.  The VIN plate was stamped and installed into the dash anel prior to the instrument cluster being installed.  Once the VIN number was assigned at the schedule bank, that was how GM identified the car, all the broadcast sheets referenced that number and the sequence number which determined the order the cars came down the line.   Engines were stamped with the VIN derivatives as they were assembled.  When the engine/transmissions arrived at the assembly line to be mated to the body someone verified the correct numbers were on the body and the engine, but since everything was locked into sequence I don't think there was many issues with an out of sequence (wrong) engine/transmission being installed into a body.  
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Mark C.
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« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 10:31:16 AM »

The VINs were assigned at the instant the body arrived at the GM side of the plant after Fisher finished with their work on the body and the hidden VINs on the body were stamped at this time.  The body then recieved a sequence number that was just a sequentioal number from 1 to 900 or so, it was rest to 0 every day at the start of the first shift.  This number is often found on the inside surface of the front fender extension panels so the right front end got on the right body.  The VIN plate was stamped and installed into the dash anel prior to the instrument cluster being installed.  Once the VIN number was assigned at the schedule bank, that was how GM identified the car

OK, so the moment Fisher had the opportunity to stamp the VIN into the body, then the body thus was that VIN?
Correct?
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VN Pacecar 396 M20 #'s

X44, CE-427, M20, C BE, 712 50 50
JohnZ
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« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 10:49:03 AM »

The VINs were assigned at the instant the body arrived at the GM side of the plant after Fisher finished with their work on the body and the hidden VINs on the body were stamped at this time.  The body then recieved a sequence number that was just a sequentioal number from 1 to 900 or so, it was rest to 0 every day at the start of the first shift.  This number is often found on the inside surface of the front fender extension panels so the right front end got on the right body.  The VIN plate was stamped and installed into the dash anel prior to the instrument cluster being installed.  Once the VIN number was assigned at the schedule bank, that was how GM identified the car

OK, so the moment Fisher had the opportunity to stamp the VIN into the body, then the body thus was that VIN?
Correct?

Nope. Fisher Body had nothing to do with the VIN - it was assigned by Chevrolet, after the body was received from Fisher. The VIN number was assigned when the body was received in the Chevrolet Body Bank, was electronically transmitted to printers at multiple locations on the Chevrolet side of the plant on the Body and Chassis Broadcast copies, and the hidden VIN derivatives were stamped on the body in the first operation on the Chevrolet Trim Line, along with creation and installation of the VIN plate on the upper instrument panel.
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RPOZ11
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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 04:21:05 PM »

May we pause here...

Could we place what the Chevrolet Body Bank is and that location?

Quoted by CRG:
"Body Bank: Receives the body shell from Fisher, assigns VIN and stamps the hidden VINs, separates them by major Chevrolet equipment and option content, and schedules them in "locked" sequence to the Chevrolet Trim Line; specs for each car are "broadcast" to subassembly and feeder lines throughout the plant."

Is the term "body bank" a location inside the production facity?




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VN Pacecar 396 M20 #'s

X44, CE-427, M20, C BE, 712 50 50
Mark
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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2010, 11:27:14 PM »

At Norwood the body bank is the first station on the GM side of the plant.  It received the trimmed out rear tub of the car from the Fisher Body side of the plant.  In a non GMAD plant fisher body built  the rear tub of the car to GMs spec and delivered it to the GM side of the plant, which then added the front end sheetmetal and running rear to the tub.  Think of the body bank as a railroad switch yard with a single set of tracks coming into it and breaking up into 6 parallel track sections for parking bodys, with a single set of tracks leaving the bank.  After the body was received the scheduling clerk sent each body to one of these 6 banks based on the optioned to be installed on the car.  Options requiring more work, like installing an A/C system, or RS trim, Z28s, SS's and  consoles etc had to be fed into the assembly line spaced out so that the lline would not be over taxed with the extra time it would take to install these component.  Each of these parallel tracks could hold about 12 vehicles.  Base vehicles continued right thru the body bank in the order they were received from Fisher, with each of these higher work vehciles being metered into the main line to even out the load on the lines.  In GMAD plants that had integrated Fisher and GM operations in a single assembly line (like Los Angeles) all of the various scheduling rules for both GM and Fisher had to be incorporated into the production order from the start of the tub assembly since there was no way to change the build order of the car once its contruction was started.  Fishers major concerns would have included things like keeping adequate spacings between convertibles or vinyl top cars, similar colored bodys, ec. 
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Mark C.
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2010, 01:43:26 AM »

Would like to get some clarification on a few statements here:

I apologize for my ignorance here not knowing all of the terminology....
GMAD?

Next:
"At Norwood the body bank is the first station on the GM side of the plant.  It received the trimmed out rear tub of the car from the Fisher Body side of the plant"
Trimmed out?

Just a brief explanation is all that is necessary here for us to continue here...

Also, maybe a grammar update will be helpful.
Might be some abbreviated terms there above in your explanation...
THX
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VN Pacecar 396 M20 #'s

X44, CE-427, M20, C BE, 712 50 50
IZRSSS
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2010, 07:45:18 AM »

I think the grammar remark is in poor taste, and certainly not warrented here. Mark's explanation was superb, IMO.


« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 09:08:03 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
Gramps69Z
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2010, 08:47:37 AM »

GMAD (General Motors Assemby Division) it's in the assembly process report.
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Captain John Wykoff
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Mark
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2010, 10:12:58 AM »

Originally all GM assembly plants (except the Corvette plants) consisted of separate Fisher assembly plants and GM assembly plants located for the most part on the same property and sometimes under the same roof.  Fisher was originally a completely separate company. Some assembly plants were even in different locations and the Fisher bodies were shipped to the GM plant for completion.  Fisher assembled the rear half of the body and GM did everything else.   This configuration was not very efficient, because now you have Fisher paint shops, Trim shops, Welding shops, and you also have GM equivalents.  As time went on GM absorbed Fisher into the GM family and then went about incorporating the tasks Fisher perform into common shops.  This common assembly line plant is referred to as a GMAD plant.   Camaros were built at both Norwood Ohio and Los Angeles CA. Norwood was one of the last assembly plants that had separate facilities, while LA had a single assembly line that not only built Camaros, but also Chevrolets, Impalas, firebirds etc.  Each of these cars built at LA came down a single assembly line in the same order they started with, they had no provisions to rebalance the line like Norwood did so whatever assembly constraints both GM and Fisher had to contend with had to be handled differently, than at Norwood, which could slightly modify the arrangement of cars bodies to suit GMs needs after Fisher finished with them.  Each plant handled VINs differenly and put them on the body in different parts of the plant.  Norwoods is described in the assemlbly process report.  LA did it slightly differently.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 11:57:27 AM by Mark » Logged

Mark C.
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 10:46:54 AM »

Would like to get some clarification on a few statements here: Next:

"At Norwood the body bank is the first station on the GM side of the plant.  It received the trimmed out rear tub of the car from the Fisher Body side of the plant"
Trimmed out?

As noted in the Assembly Process Report, Fisher Body welded-up the body from the firewall back, painted it, installed the glass, weatherstripping, interior trim and hardware (less the instrument panel), and shipped it to the Chevrolet side of the plant, where it was completed and became a running car.
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RPOZ11
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2010, 07:58:15 PM »

OK, so the Chevrolet side receives that assembled body.

Once received, is the VIN the 1'st process to be assigned to that body shell before it starts the next assembly process?
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Mark
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 08:33:53 PM »

Yes.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2010, 08:36:48 PM »

Read from Fisher body to Chevrolet overview.

http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
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Captain John Wykoff
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RPOZ11
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« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2010, 01:31:49 AM »

Yes.

OK, That was an answer I was looking to establish here.

So, we can agree at this point the Body is now VIN stamped and now has an Identification legally as a car.

When, after the Body Bank does this VIN stamping on the body, will this body receive the VIN tag on the dash panel ?
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VN Pacecar 396 M20 #'s

X44, CE-427, M20, C BE, 712 50 50
Gramps69Z
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« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2010, 09:27:15 AM »

Chevrolet Overview
Body Bank: Receives the body shell from Fisher, assigns VIN and stamps the hidden VINs, separates them by major Chevrolet equipment and option content, and schedules them in "locked" sequence to the Chevrolet Trim Line; specs for each car are "broadcast" to subassembly and feeder lines throughout the plant.

Trim Line: Installs VIN plate, dash mat, heater or A/C system, wipers, pedal support, instrument panel, cluster and wiring, steering column, front carpets, console, brake booster, rear bumper and guards, and the rear shocks and fuel tank; installs the complete front sheet metal assembly and sends the body to the Final Line for chassis-to-body marriage.

 
 http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml
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Captain John Wykoff
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I'm sick and tired of mismanagement and disappointment. 
I'm a COWBOYS fan.
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