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Author Topic: Power steer pump cap  (Read 23619 times)
rich69rs
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« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2006, 09:54:40 AM »

Ed - in my opinion the info. that you have provided is not necessarily inconsitent at all.

One possible interpretation of the p/n references in your previous post is:

62-69 Nova, Camaro, Chevelle - Cap Assy, oil fill (tube gauge) - 5690846 (which has been identified as the metal cap.  Since there is a seperate p/n for the '69 cap, the Camaro reference here  is for years other than '69.  Wouldn't be the first part number / year error ever made in a parts listing.) 

69 Camaro - Cap Assy, filler - 7803820  (plastic, black, clearly identified as the '69 cap)

Additionally , as many have previoulsy noted based on their own personal observations, no one has ever seen a metal cap on a '69 Camaro - matter of fact, just the opposite.  These observations (which include original cars) all have the black plastic cap.  At this point, the info in this thread would lead me to conclude that the black plastic cap is correct for the '69 Camaro.  We all know the quality of info. that  comes from NCRS sources and data - some of the best there is.  However, to assume a direct extrapolation of NCRS data to Camaros in all cases probably is not reasonable.  These are two different cars with two different bills of materials.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2006, 10:53:17 AM by rich69rs » Logged

Richard Thomas
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« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2006, 10:13:17 AM »

Quote
Although not clear, I would conclude, since there is a seperate p/n for the '69 cap, that the Camaro reference here  is for years other than '69

Rich,

No, I don't think so. If that was the case, the book would have stated something like:

62-69 Nova,
64-69 Chevelle,
67-68 Camaro - 5690846

That's the normal convention it uses if there's a change between the years.

But since it states "62-69 Nova, Chevelle (even though there was no 62 or 63 Chevelle), Camaro (again, even though there was no 62-66 Camaro)", I would say that the 69 Camaro may have started out with the metal cap and then changed to the plastic one at some point.

Another note we should look at is the date of my P&A, which is September, 1968. This would indicate that IF there was a change from metal to plastic, the change would have probably occurred very early in the 1969 model year. Perhaps a phase out of the metal cap in favor of the plastic. Since a power steering cap wouldn't make any difference in the drivability of the car, it's possible that the factory used both for a period of time until the metal caps were finally exhausted from stock.

Of course, I'm just guessing here.

JohnZ, was this a normal procedure for the factory to phase in or phase out parts over a period of time?

Ed




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lakeholme
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« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2006, 07:12:15 PM »

Again, remembering what John said...
The October 1967 P&A says, "62-68 Chevy, Camaro, Chevelle... CAP ASSY., oil fliter (tube guage)... 5690846". It makes no mention of 7803820. And that's not a misprint. It does say "filter" for 5690846.
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Pacecarjeff
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« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2006, 07:26:19 PM »

I find it interesting that there is a mention of a new PS cap in the Sept 68 P/A book.
Looks like it was substituted early. Now I would like to determine just how early.

And why only the Camaro, and not the other models with the Log design manifolds Huh
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Steve68
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« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2006, 08:17:10 PM »

Ed

Perhaps Rich is on target.  Taking into consideration they just neglected to delineate like you did in your post for the Camaro for 67-68.  I have had my head in these books for many years and if I had to make a call on this at this point I would say because the 69 has the separate listing for the Camaro it is the correct p/n for the entire year.  Especially since the 5690846 was apparently not being mixed with, or used instead of, any other part up to 5/70.  Sorry if my 2 cents upsets you Jeff but what do I know anyway.

Steve
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Pacecarjeff
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« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2006, 09:16:03 PM »

I am not going to get upset. Want to find out what is right. I have lots of caps laying around, switching would be a very easy fix.
I could use plastic on Thursdays - Saturday, and metal the rest of the week. Makes no difference to me. Roll Eyes

(The only thing upsetting to me, is how many plastic caps I let go to the crusher over the years  Shocked )

I don't want a guess, or a speculation. I want to prove absolutely what is right.
The true answer is going to come from research. Something it now appears CRG has not really done yet on this topic.  NCRS has been documenting this stuff for 30+ years. CRG will someday get caught up (thats what we are now doing - right?).  No one wants to commit to an answer. So that is enough for me to assume that we really are not sure.

Until we have the verified data in our hands everything is just a guess.
So anyone ready to commit? .... Go ahead - make my day. Cheesy

The Camaro may have been the first model to use that cap, but there would have to be something out there showing when or why.  An internal memo, a purchase order, or something.

I have pulled metal caps off many a 1969 car. So there must have been a reason to change ONLY the Camaro in Sept. 1968 - 7 months before the Corvette changed.  And Like I said before it may have been the new heads with the accessory holes, and the need to redirect the return fitting.  That would certainly make perfect sense.....

Lets get together and find out why.   Cool
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KurtS
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« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2006, 01:09:37 AM »

It's not something that had even come across our radar until now.
So there no group research to back it up, just individual recollections.

But Ed's P&A34 is pretty convincing since it shows the early 69 model year usage. I'll check my books when they get unpacked.....
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Kurt S
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Pacecarjeff
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« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2006, 09:45:40 AM »

Another interesting thing I noticed...
In the 1969 Assembly manual the part number for the PS Pump is different for the L6 and the V8 engines.

L6 calls for pump #7805653 Pump Asm.
V8 calls for pump #7805656 Pump Asm.
V8 w396 calls for pump 7806370 pump asm.
This is all found in the N40 Section.

The picture of those V8 pumps are illustrated with a design shape that wasn't used until 1975.

I really think the PS pump was redesigned for the 1969 Small block heads with the accessory holes.
and ........
The newly designed pump was produced with a new plastic cap.

The listing application does not show a separate part# for the cap, so the caps were likely already attached to the pumps when delivered from the manufacturer.

The P&A book listing # may only be for the replacement items if only the cap was needed. Huh
So it may be very likely that SB V8's 302 350 327 got a plastic cap and all others L6 and BB V8's 396's 427's got the metal one.

Or the pumps may have all been shipped with metal caps untill the supply was used up.

Just "thinking out loud" here, with possibilities.

Somewhere is the internal memos to prove what happened. Someone has them, we just got to find them.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2006, 09:47:33 AM by Pacecarjeff » Logged
Pacecarjeff
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« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2006, 01:47:44 PM »

Just got back from my favorite junk yard.

There were some new(old) cars today.
1969 Skylark - Had a metal PS cap
1970 Skylark - Had a plastic PS cap with no inner line.
Grabbed them both. along with everything else I always take.  Grin

Now I know that this does not transfer to the Camaro - but this is what I have been seeing for years.
Additionally - It has always been rare for me to find Camaros that are scrapped.
Used to happen from time to time, but not any more.
So on this particular componet my expertise may not be Camaro.

But typically what I have seen accross the entire GM model lines is: 1969 were metal PS caps.  If the Camaro is different - that is something I would really like to prove.   Wink

Kinda of makes us special.
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rich69rs
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« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2006, 12:51:17 PM »

In one of my copies of Chevrolet Service News (either Aug or Sep 1968), there is a general discussion of the major changes for the 1969 model year.  Under steering, there is a discussion of how the power steering pump is new for 1969 (for small block engines).  The information states taht the pump is new for 1969 and that previous year pumps will not work.  As mentioned in a previous post, the change fundamentally related to mounting location, hardware, etc. 

Chevrolet changed the location of the various accessory drives in order to package all of them (alternator, ps pump, ac compressor, smog pump) in as compact an arrangement as possible.

Nothing conclusive, just another tid bit of info - the pump changed at the beginning of the '69 model year and maybe the cap was a part of that change.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2006, 03:47:52 PM by rich69rs » Logged

Richard Thomas
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« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2006, 01:52:33 PM »

My 69 307 has the plastic cap - presumed original not a lot has been done to the car over the years.

Tom
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Pacecarjeff
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« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2006, 09:18:20 PM »

I found a few plastic caps.  (now that I am looking)  Wink

The longer one came off a 1970 Fleetwood.  --  It is not vented in any way,

The shorter one came off a 1970 Cutlass - This is the same size pump used by Camaro.
This cap is vented all the way down through the center of the tube.

Both tops look identical, except for the hole throught the center of the short one.


« Last Edit: June 14, 2006, 09:23:59 PM by Pacecarjeff » Logged
cib12
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« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2007, 09:01:36 PM »

if it helps-i was a teck in that era and worked on all these cars and as i recall they were painted black
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2007, 11:39:55 PM »

I just checked the P/S cap on my 02C built '68 Z/28. Here's what I have:
- metal cap (appears to have been originally painted black - most of this black paint is worn off).
- the words "USE AUTOMATIC TRANS FLUID TYPE A - CHECK OIL HOT".
- short (44 mm) black plastic tube (stick).
- "FULL" line on tube (stick) is 20 mm from the bottom of tube (stick).
- cap is vented on the top of the cap through the tube (stick).
- cap is a little loose on the P/S pump housing when it reaches the stops. OK it you back it off very slightly. worn gasket?
- I'm not 100% positive this is the original cap.
Hope this info helps.

Paul 
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Pacecarjeff
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« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2007, 12:28:05 AM »

That one likely is the original cap for your car.
No question that the 68's used metal.
still trying to determine exactly what month 69 Camaro switched to the "new" plastic cap.
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