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Author Topic: Am/Fm Blue-Light Radio  (Read 10273 times)
IZRSSS
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« on: October 29, 2010, 07:41:19 AM »

KurtS...
Not sure if this will help with your research of the Yellow Light Radio but here are some pics of a Blue-Light. The car is a '69 Van Nuys 12A build. Let me know if more pics are needed.

Can anyone tell me what the sticker on the 3rd & 4Th pic means. I believe this is the correct radio for the car but this March 30, 1995 tag Huh. Could it be a recondition inspection sticker or is it the wrong radio?


http://www.camaros.org/TopicsofResearch.shtml
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 08:52:10 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
IZRSSS
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« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2010, 07:42:38 AM »

Radio Contd...looks like someone took a file to the mounting bracket.

Anyone know what this sticker is for?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 08:50:04 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
crobjones2
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 02:40:14 PM »

on the topic of the yellow light radio - I have a yellow light am/fm radio, I always thought it was a 70's model or from when the dealer installed the 8-track
I know the radio is not stereo
Is there a way to verify the radio is from 69 (it has no sticker on it any longer)?

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Chris
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paceme
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2010, 04:08:54 PM »

KurtS...
Not sure if this will help with your research of the Yellow Light Radio but here are some pics of a Blue-Light. The car is a '69 Van Nuys 12A build. Let me know if more pics are needed.

The sticker in the 3rd&4th pic, looks like when the unit was repaired. The servicer applied a repair/service tag dated 3/3/1995 for possibly repair warranty validation.



Can anyone tell me what the sticker on the 3rd & 4Th pic means. I believe this is the correct radio for the car but this March 30, 1995 tag Huh. Could it be a recondition inspection sticker or is it the wrong radio?


http://www.camaros.org/TopicsofResearch.shtml
Radio Contd...looks like someone took a file to the mounting bracket.

Anyone know what this sticker is for?

The sticker in the 3rd&4th pic, looks like when the unit was repaired. The servicer applied a repair/service tag dated 3/3/1995 for possibly repair warranty validation.



« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 05:48:24 PM by paceme » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2010, 04:25:18 PM »

on the topic of the yellow light radio - I have a yellow light am/fm radio, I always thought it was a 70's model or from when the dealer installed the 8-track
I know the radio is not stereo
Is there a way to verify the radio is from 69 (it has no sticker on it any longer)?


The yellow/amber lit radio is in fact stereo, with an integrated multiplexer. Look at the model# tag it should read 91BFM2 the first digit is the model year for the radio. If no tag look for the large plug used in 1969 . If it has the thin plug its 1970.

FM1 = am/fm stereo blue light
FM2 = am/fm stereo amber/yellow light



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IZRSSS
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 05:05:41 PM »

So it looks like I have the FM2 & it does read 91BFM2. Here is where I'm confussed...is the light on the radio consistant with its name?  My radio has a distinctive blue-light.  

The other question I have is that on the link below; [1969 Topics, #2; Phase-in of the "yellow-light" stereo system in 1969 (June)?]  My car is a 12A (Dec. 68)...was the yellow-light radio available then? Does the question mark at the end of the quote mean it is still being evaluated?

Thanks for the info for the repair/service tag!

http://www.camaros.org/TopicsofResearch.shtml

Thanks paceme!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 06:27:43 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
IZRSSS
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2010, 09:54:55 AM »

Paceme...Is this the Multiplexer Cable you PM'd me about. You also mentioned that the Multiplex Unit should be mounted behind the clove box. Is it possible to see it w/o removing the c-box? I traced the cable but it seems to go way up in there above the box.

Thanks again
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mark x22
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 10:10:17 AM »

You can see the rubber well nuts that mount the multiplex thru the right side cowl vent grill near the top .
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2010, 10:46:26 AM »

You guys are "sick"...according to my teenage son that mean good...

Spotted them and then referenced AIM U79 A2 (4 & 5)...is this correct?

Thanks!
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mark x22
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 10:55:19 AM »

Yes
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 03:37:13 PM »

Is there a possibility that a "Blue-Light" FM2 designation was used for early production '69 camaros? Everything my radio has is consistant with a factory blue-light install, AIM U79 A2, down to original factory labels on radio and cables.

The radio has been serviced as indicated by the label, but I can't see why anyone would go through the trouble of changing tags, casing, or interior components.

Can anyone help?
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crobjones2
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 03:52:28 PM »

paceme - here is a pic of the back of the radio
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Chris
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paceme
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 05:17:36 PM »

Is there a possibility that a "Blue-Light" FM2 designation was used for early production '69 camaros? Everything my radio has is consistant with a factory blue-light install, AIM U79 A2, down to original factory labels on radio and cables.

The radio has been serviced as indicated by the label, but I can't see why anyone would go through the trouble of changing tags, casing, or interior components.

Can anyone help?

Marty, the amber light stereo also came with an external multiplexer in 1969, which is what your car has. The FM2 just designates the model as the second revision of the stereo unit(probably some circuitry changes). All 69 am/fm stereo units have an external multiplexer. In 1970 the integrated multiplex units were introduced. My understanding is that the amber units were introduced sometime around mid 69.

We know the radio in your car was repaired in 1995, so it may have been simply swapped out for another unit.   
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paceme
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2010, 05:23:42 PM »

paceme - here is a pic of the back of the radio

That is a 1970 or later unit, as indicated by the power connector location and type. What does the service model tag indicate.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2010, 06:15:10 PM »

Sorry...I'm still confussed...

Can you tell by the service label who made the repair?
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mark x22
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2010, 06:24:16 PM »

My car was built 12 B 1968 and has the same numbers 7307331 , 91BFM2. It is an original blue light radio
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2010, 06:29:36 PM »

Thank you Mark!
Obviously more research has to be done on this radio. There are too many discrepancies between FM1 & FM2 designations.
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mark x22
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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2010, 06:39:36 PM »

My serial number starts with 31FSB
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2010, 10:25:21 AM »

Thanks again Mark...Paceme PM'd me and it looks like more research is needed. As they say; to be cont'd...
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KurtS
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2010, 12:05:17 PM »

Looks like you can't assume there's a correlation between the light color and the FM1/FM2 codes.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2010, 02:43:38 PM »

Well so far we know the blue light was available in FM1 & FM2.  One way to possibly define the transition date from blue to amber light is dating the units themselves. I believe the output transistors are date coded. One example I have is a FM2 blue light I purchased fall Carlisle 1981 it has an output transistor dated 6916 = 1969 , 16th week. I also verified one of my survivor cars built 9B of 68 which has an AM radio PB1 with an output transistor dated 6837 or 1968 37th week.  Obviously this is not a perfect way of dating a radio but....

 
Here is a start of data table:

Rev        Light        Transistor date     Date
FM2          Blue          6916              1969   16th week



Anyone else?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 03:01:14 PM by paceme » Logged

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IZRSSS
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« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2010, 04:58:49 PM »

If this is the only way to distinguish between FM1 and FM2 then perhaps a lesson in radio vasectomy is in order.

Steve, will you please explain the dos and don'ts of prying into one of these radios? This is a much smaller scale but when I was young and stupid I opened the back of a TV thinking that simply unplugging the unit would cut the power. I touched something inside with a screw driver and it knocked me out.  My hand was the ground and the carpet underneath started on fire. Electronics to this day scare the boigie's out of me, think that's a word.

Will you also post pics of the transistor you are referring to.

Thanks
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paceme
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« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2010, 06:17:10 PM »

The transistor I was refering to is locate on the external heat sink on the back of the unit. I used and inspection mirror and its relatively easy to identify.

I reviewed my radio service manual 1969 edition bulletin 6D-1969-1 and it has the schematic and parts list for the later FM2 revision. It notes that for FM1 schematic and parts list use the service bulletin 6D-1968-1.
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2010, 08:19:23 PM »

Is this service bulletin (6D-1968-1) on-line or do you have a pic of the page that references this transistor?  In addition, can you access it without removing the radio?

http://www.camaros.org/crgrefs.shtml#1968Refs  (1968 Specific References #14)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 08:47:30 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
KurtS
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« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2010, 09:41:39 PM »

Thanks for mentioning the transistor date. I was going to, but forgot.

In this pic, the blue and brown wires appear to come out of the transistor. It's silver and round. See them in Chris' pic.
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Kurt S
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 07:44:29 AM »

Thanks KurtS & Steve!

Build Date     Rev     Light      Transistor Date        
12A               FM2     Blue       6843          

[1968...43wk (3rd wk Nov)]
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 08:05:37 AM by IZRSSS » Logged
paceme
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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2010, 09:46:42 AM »



  Car Build             Rev        Light        Transistor date     Date
      NA                FM2          Blue          6916              1969   16th week
      NA                FM2          Blue          6917              1969   17th week
     12A               FM2           Blue          6843             1968    43rd week


      9B                 PB1         AM             6837              1968   37th week

If anyone has an amber light stereo your assistance is needed so that the transition from date from blue to amber can be determined.

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IZRSSS
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2010, 10:35:29 AM »

Just curious...Why are you including Am's (#4)?
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paceme
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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2010, 04:06:01 PM »

Just curious...Why are you including Am's (#4)?

Just providing data that the transistor date correlates to the bulid date of the radio, and to the car. At this time we only have your car build date . I seperated it from the FM list so as not to confuse the issue.
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mark x22
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2010, 04:47:13 PM »

Mine is 12B 1968 car FM2  blue liight  6842   1968 42 week
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paceme
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2010, 05:54:34 PM »



  Car Build             Rev        Light        Transistor date     Date
      NA                FM2          Blue          6916              1969   16th week
      NA                FM2          Blue          6917              1969   17th week
     12A               FM2           Blue          6843             1968    43rd week
     12B                FM2          Blue           6842             1968    42nd week





      9B                 PB1         AM             6837              1968   37th week

If anyone has an amber light stereo your assistance is needed so that the transition from date from blue to amber can be determined.


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Mark
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2010, 07:15:02 PM »

The difference between an FM1 and FM2 AM/FM stereo radio is the use of a single Zener diode DS149 on the FM mixer board.  The FM1 was used early and it was replaced with the FM model at some point.  You would have to open the unit up and look at the diode in the center of the "C shaped circuit board inside the case to see the diode.  As near as i can tell that is the only difference between the two model numbers.
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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2010, 09:21:14 PM »



  Car Build             Rev        Light        Transistor date     Date
      NA                FM2          Blue          6916              1969   16th week
      NA                FM2          Blue          6917              1969   17th week
     12A               FM2           Blue          6843             1968    43rd week
     12B                FM2          Blue           6842             1968    42nd week





      9B                 PB1         AM             6837              1968   37th week

If anyone has an amber light stereo your assistance is needed so that the transition from date from blue to amber can be determined.



The 1970(possibly late 69?)I I have, is dated 6942
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2010, 09:21:42 PM »

Mark,

Does FM=FM2?
Was the purpose of the Zener diode to improve quality/clarity? Hence FM stereo...
Along with the change in diode did the stereo indicator light change from blue to yellow?
Or...Does FM1 & FM2 have anything to do with color change?

Thanks
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 09:40:44 PM by IZRSSS » Logged
IZRSSS
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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2010, 09:27:00 PM »

Chris...according to your 6942 date it is a late '69 model...
1969, 42nd wk. Do you have a pic of the transistor?
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KurtS
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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2010, 10:05:01 PM »

Chris...according to your 6942 date it is a late '69 model...
1969, 42nd wk. Do you have a pic of the transistor?
But according to the plug, it's for a 70 model year car.
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Kurt S
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IZRSSS
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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2010, 10:11:54 PM »

This ought to be fun Huh Undecided.
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opelitis1
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« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2010, 06:13:56 AM »

Have a 1970 Green Light (tint) A.M./tape unit in front of me with the original speakers and wires - good on '70 Chevelles. Would the speaker wire length be the same for Camaros and Chevelles.. Believe there should be an inspector's number  tag along the wire lenghth.
Again this is the '70 Chevelle Green Tint model, maybe it is the same ? ? ?
If so, I'll take a pic and measure the length.
Ted
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paceme
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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2010, 10:17:07 AM »

Chris...according to your 6942 date it is a late '69
 model...
1969, 42nd wk. Do you have a pic of the transistor?

That is configured for a 1970 production car. The camaro wasn't available until feb 1970 and am/fm stereo wasnt offered in second gen camaro until 1974. According to the dated units (limited sample) that radio would have been installed in a car built Dec of 1969 and possibly orig installed in a 1970 chevelle or full size cars.

But according to the plug, it's for a 70 model year car.

Chris's radio is configured for a 1970 production car. The camaro wasn't available until feb 1970 and am/fm stereo wasnt offered in second gen camaro until 1974. According to the dated units listed above (limited sample) that radio would have been installed in a car built Dec of 1969 (70 production) and possibly orig installed in a 1970 chevelle, full size or other model vehicle.

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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2010, 01:52:12 PM »

Chris...according to your 6942 date it is a late '69 model...
1969, 42nd wk. Do you have a pic of the transistor?
But according to the plug, it's for a 70 model year car.

exactly - I hope the date helps to pin down the change over from blue light to amber light

were the radio's interchangeable( would it be possible to change the plug to a 69 style?)
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paceme
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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2010, 03:12:43 PM »

Chris...according to your 6942 date it is a late '69 model...
1969, 42nd wk. Do you have a pic of the transistor?
But according to the plug, it's for a 70 model year car.

exactly - I hope the date helps to pin down the change over from blue light to amber light

were the radio's interchangeable( would it be possible to change the plug to a 69 style?)

If I remember correctly the unit you have not only has the 70's style plug and location, but also has the non angled heat sink, and the integrated multiplexer. It is my understanding that the heat sink (for 1969 radio) needed to be cut on an angle due to fitment considerations.  That tag sure would come in handy  Grin
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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2010, 07:28:27 PM »

unfortunately there is no tag- otherwise I would have gotten rid of the radio knowing it was not original
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« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2010, 08:08:25 PM »

Chris, was this radio installed in your car? if so how was the power connected to the radio. Was the input/power  harness cut or spliced or dids it look factory/ undisturbed.
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« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2010, 02:07:14 PM »

It was cut and spliced, more than likely when the dealer installed an 8-track. Although the original owner has told me the car came with an am/fm radio and they requested the dealer install an 8-track. The 8-track was definately not the same unit that came factory on the camaro, but the 8-track appeared to be the type installed on the larger vehicles( i.e. chevelle)

Thus I cannot confirm this is the original radio - quite possibly a replacement to allow the installation of the 8-track with out the installation of the seperate multiplex unit?
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« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2010, 04:17:00 PM »

The difference between an FM1 and FM2 AM/FM stereo radio is the use of a single Zener diode DS149 on the FM mixer board.  The FM1 was used early and it was replaced with the FM model at some point.  You would have to open the unit up and look at the diode in the center of the "C shaped circuit board inside the case to see the diode.  As near as i can tell that is the only difference between the two model numbers.

We know that for 1969 there were two AM/FM radio's offered. One under RPO U69: "Radio; pushbutton AM-FM", and the other under RPO U79: "Radio; Pushbutton AM-FM Stereo". Both radios were very expensive back then but the stereo retailed at $239.10 compared to the other one at $133.80. Significant difference between stereo and non-stereo.

Would it be safe to assume FM1=w/o stereo and FM2 =w/ stereo?
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« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2010, 04:34:05 PM »

Nope. The 91BFP1 is the mono radio, the 91BFM1 is the early version of the AM/FM Mulitplex blue light radio, and the FM2 is the revised version (Zener Diodes - DS149 unit) AM/FM Multiplex radio.  Need to dig into my 69 delco Radio service manuals to see if i can find the yellow light version in there, but i don't think its actually a 69 radio, I think its a 70 model year radio and it was used in the camaro becuase production ran so long.  The 70 and up radios with the square heat sink fins do fit in a Camaro, The fins will touch the defroster vent but not really badly.
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« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2010, 06:07:08 PM »

Nope. The 91BFP1 is the mono radio, the 91BFM1 is the early version of the AM/FM Mulitplex blue light radio, and the FM2 is the revised version (Zener Diodes - DS149 unit) AM/FM Multiplex radio.  Need to dig into my 69 delco Radio service manuals to see if i can find the yellow light version in there, but i don't think its actually a 69 radio, I think its a 70 model year radio and it was used in the camaro becuase production ran so long.  The 70 and up radios with the square heat sink fins do fit in a Camaro, The fins will touch the defroster vent but not really badly.

I am leaning that way as well Mark. I was hoping Chris's car had the factory wiring with the 70 connector. I knew a 70 stereo radio would fit but rather snug. I would like to confirm by examining an unmolested Oct/Nov built car with a stereo.  I remember years ago talking to the radio repair guy located in Fairless Hills, Pa,  and he stated he has never seen a amber light stereo in the 69 configuration (ext multiplexer and large side pount plug) FWIW.   
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« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2010, 08:53:39 PM »

Is the bracket shown in the picture attached for a '68 with the U79 radio amp? 

Were the U79 Amps different between '68 and '69?

The '69 AIM, page 445 covering the U79 option, shows the amp bracket was part of the #7307361 amp, and mounted behind the glove box.  Attached are pictures of my U79 "Blue Light" receiver #7307311 with DS-501 transistor date code 6838 or the 38th week of 1968, and the amp #7308261 which is not the #7307361 amp noted in the AIM. 

Also, the U79 option used the U63 AM FM Receiver but then added the stereo amp and included the four speakers, correct?
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« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2010, 09:03:51 PM »

Marty (IZRSSS) asked me if his radio FM2 was in fact a stereo radio and what the zener diode change was in a PM to me. He also asked me to post my response to him as a clarification for others.

"Real simple. You have a am/fm stereo (FM2) second design which incorporated a change in the zener diode(per Mark). A zener diode can be used for many purposes with the radio's  circuitry, such as setting a reference voltage or stabilizing/regulating voltage in the amplifier stage. This is a very minor change..."
                                                                                 RPO
1969 AM radio                 91APB1                                  U63    
1969 AM/FM MONO  radio  91BFP1                                  U69
1969 AM/FM-STEREO radio 91BFM1   First Rev Ext MPX       U79
1969 AM/FM-STEREO radio 91BFM2 Second Rev Ext MPX     U79

Hope this clears it up."

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Steve Shauger
Vintage Certification™ Program, Providing Recognition And Status To Unrestored Vehicles. Website www.vintagecertification.com
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« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2010, 09:22:02 PM »

Nope. The 91BFP1 is the mono radio, the 91BFM1 is the early version of the AM/FM Mulitplex blue light radio, and the FM2 is the revised version (Zener Diodes - DS149 unit) AM/FM Multiplex radio.  Need to dig into my 69 delco Radio service manuals to see if i can find the yellow light version in there, but i don't think its actually a 69 radio, I think its a 70 model year radio and it was used in the camaro becuase production ran so long.  The 70 and up radios with the square heat sink fins do fit in a Camaro, The fins will touch the defroster vent but not really badly.

Thank You Mark and Steve! All of a sudden these radios became very complicated and its nice to know there are knowledgeable individuals such as yourselves to help out. I don't think I'll ever forget this lesson in radiology  Grin!

Hopefully the second phase is close in hand...transition from blue to yellow.

Thanks again.
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Mark
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« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2010, 09:31:57 PM »

68 U79 was a unique radio setup, every part was different than any other radio used in 68, no parts are the same as any 69 part either.  The bracket looks correct for a U79.  Attached is a picture of a complete unit for a 68 Convertible.
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Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
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« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2010, 09:43:24 PM »

This is the 69 Multiplex bracket, its upside down from how it is installed in the car.  The two bolts are under the cowl panel down in the windsheild wiper well. They are installed from outside the car, must have been fun to line up with the bracket inside the car.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2010, 07:19:29 PM »

Mark,

Is the bracket you show permanently attached to the '69 U79 amp?  Is there a date code and/or unit serial number on this amp or amp transistor?

After looking at my “L” shape bracket, did you mean that the bracket looks correct for a '68 amp?

I wonder if there was a change early in the '69 model year from the "L" shape bracket to the cradle style bracket, and if it can be determined from the date code of the amp, or  date code of the transistor to date the amp, when the bracket change took place?.

I was also wondering if the radio and amp serial numbers relate to the unit’s date code in any loose sort of way.

I now live in Indianapolis, but I was born and raised in Kokomo, IN, about a 45 minute drive north of Indy.  As you can see on the labels attached to the radio and amp units we are discussing, Kokomo is where the Delco Electronics plants are located that once designed and manufactured nearly all GM radios and speakers until the early to mid 1980s. 

Since the “arranged marriage” between Delco and Delphi, GM spun-off of Delphi, and then more recently bought back what was left of Delco Electronics.  Today, Delco E is primarily a R&D and design center for automotive electronics, and still operates a clean room physicality manufacturing IC chips.  I have family who retired from Delco and have friends still employed there.  It might be a fat chance, but I’ll try and track down some people who can “shed some light” on the blue light vs. amber light, and other radio related details. 

The old Delco Remy plants are located about 35 minutes northeast of Indy in Anderson, IN, that manufactured starters, alternators, voltage regulators, horn relays, etc.,  I am also trying to track down some information on the CZ vs. CZ1 vs. CZ4 stamped 1100837 alternators used on the ’69 Z28 and several other HP GM vehicles.  If I am successful, I’ll keep our Camaro friends on CRG posted!

Thanks,

Dave
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Mark
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« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2010, 08:22:07 PM »

No the bracket comes off, its bolted to the bottom of the multiplex amp it uses those two diagonally spaced holes to attach the bracket to the amp.

Yes, the L shaped bracket looks correct for a 68 multiplex amp.  It goes on the opper left corner of the amp as it sits in my picture, the bottom of the L would be on the side at the top in the picture, and it would run down the left side of the amp, and the angled part would turn out away from the amp.  This amp is not the same as the 69 one, its part number is 7305221 and it is actually mounted vertically up above and to the right of the steering column on a 68.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2010, 06:58:41 PM »

Thanks Mark.
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rpol78
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« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2014, 07:25:00 PM »

I have a yellow light AM/FM Stereo radio.  It's an FM2 model with a 6919 transistor date. 
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rpol78
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« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2014, 08:58:06 PM »

Here are a couple of pictures of the yellow light radio.
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rpol78
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« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2014, 08:59:55 PM »

Here's a couple more pictures of it.
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