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Author Topic: aluminum refinishing  (Read 3533 times)
big iron
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« on: October 05, 2010, 09:17:33 PM »

When aluminum parts, such as an alternator, are tumbled and the original finish is obtained. What happens to the original stamped numbers? I would think that the numbers would have a cast look to them. Are the numbers re-stamped to give them the shiny look.What is done to the machined surfaces to protect them from the tumbling process?
Bob
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x77-69z28
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 12:26:50 AM »

talk to jerry www.z28camaro.com
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69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!
68camaroz28
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 07:15:39 AM »

When aluminum parts, such as an alternator, are tumbled and the original finish is obtained. What happens to the original stamped numbers? I would think that the numbers would have a cast look to them. Are the numbers re-stamped to give them the shiny look.What is done to the machined surfaces to protect them from the tumbling process?
Bob

To be honest I'd be surprised if you found out much about the process as it might be detrimental to give away process information that could be used by someone trying to duplicate that process, i.e. many would love to know more. The comment "talk to Jerry" is correct in nature but you will have one difficult time trying to catch hiim let alone asking questions. Jerry is a great guy but one must realize he is pulled from many directions and has what must seem like a thousand people at him sometimes. 
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Chick
68 Z/28 NOR 01B Orig motor/trans/rear
69 Z/28 NOR 07A Orig Block & GM Cross-ram/carbs
69 L34 Rest. Nova Father/Son Car
69 L78 Surv Nova Purch 4/69 31K miles
67 L89 Corv Tribute
68 Corv 427/400 Orig motor
07 Corv Z06
R 68Z build- http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182584
x77-69z28
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 05:28:36 PM »

when i said talk to jerry, i meant call him up, get his address, ship him your alternator and get it back looking nos!
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69 x77 burnished brown, 711 int 05A bought in 78
67 rs/ss 350 butternut yellow 4 speed 2nd owner
70 Z28 forrest green, green int, M40, bk vinyl roof PROJECT
99 SS hugger orange 6spd NO TTOPS bought new 1 of 54
11 cts-v blk diamond  edition wagon 556hp sick!
jeff68
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2010, 11:44:28 AM »

It's best to ask lots of questions, even if having a reputable company 'restore' your parts.  You don't want to find out that something isn't quite right after the fact, only to get the answer of "well, that's how we always do them" or "we wouldn't deduct points in judging for that".  Trust me, I found out the hard way on a Q-Jet restoration
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68 L30 / M20 Convertible
Ash Gold
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 07:46:45 PM »

Hope I am not hijacking the thread, but, what happened in the carb resto Jeff68??
No names pls. 
I seem  to magnetize carb buyers trying to git my stuff at basement pricing..
Yup, and they have all the right questions 'n answers, eh!!
Ted
     
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jeff68
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2010, 08:40:22 AM »

Ted-  I sent my original q-jet to a very reputable place to have my carb restored.  The guy is a very well known 1st generation Camaro appraiser and author of a few definitive Camaro books.  He knows the importance of originality, part numbers, date codes, proper finishes, etc.  Anyhow, since my q-jet was original to the car, I took many pictures of it for documentation before it was sent out.  When I got it back, it looked nice, but a lot of the parts on it (linkage & hardware) were not my parts.  They had different part numbers on them.  I wanted MY carb restored and what I got back was my body with a bunch of other people's parts.  I was told that this was normal practice - they send out a bunch of parts for plating and use whatever they want to put the carb back together.  They were able to find some of my original parts, but not all of them.  Also, that distinctive green color on the cross-shaft was gone.  Even though my shaft was in nice shape, apparently it was stripped & replated (or my nice original green shaft is on a high$$ restored car somewhere).  So, I'm stuck with a molested carb.  It can be spotted a mile away by any true Camaro aficionado.  To make me feel better, I received a letter from this person stating that the work done on my carb would not result in any points deduction if my car were to be shown at a national level.  Great - I would rather have my original parts back.  I would have been better off leaving it alone. 

Sorry for the rant, but people really need to know what they're getting themselves into, even if having "the" man restore their parts.
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68 L30 / M20 Convertible
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My68SS
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2010, 09:58:32 AM »

Jeff, I feel your pain!! That would really annoy me too!!  Angry That's a few steps backwards, not forwards.
I'm always paranoid about 'my parts' not coming back to me.
Surprising given the guy's rep. and supposed attention to detail.
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Rob
1968 L34/M40 SS
12 bolt posi 3.55
Build - 12C
L78 steve
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 12:41:03 PM »

There is no excuse for what happened to Jeff68. Anyone that sends parts in different directions is not a restorer,more like a parts changer. The Teflon green shaft is a MUST and I would insist on it being returned as well as any other incorrect parts. Sometimes I wonder if these so called restorers keep the nicest pieces for themselves.
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69 Z/28 Dover White X33,ZL2,PS,M20,Std.int.04C
67 SS/RS Mt. Green 1W,2LGSR,3SL,4K,5BY,07C
Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2010, 06:21:22 PM »

In regards to Jeff-68ís post here.  I will answer and then all can decide for themselves.  I know this forum is not used as a bashing or complaining board but as a known restorer in the business, Camaro Hi-Performance, and a member of CRG,  I need to post an answer to defend what we do and take responsibility for anything that we dropped the ball on.   

Jeff did send his carb to us for restoration.  There were some issues with some of the carb linkage pieces.  Somehow they did get co-mingled with another carb job when the carbs went to the plating shop.  I do all of the assemblies but I do have three people who aid me in taking components apart.  In this case, some of the small linkage pieces did get mixed up.  I did try my best with many phone calls and e-mails to try and make this job right and go the extra distance.  I do that with all my customers.  I even refunded most of the money on this job.  I also offered to do his distributor restoration for parts costs only.  I strive for 100% customer satisfaction and I care about all of my customers.  I enjoy what we do and I do have a passion for the hobby and its people.  If not, I would not be running this business, working at the Camaro Nationals every year for free and racing a 1967 Z28 Camaro in NHRAís Stock Eliminator. 

There are two types of plating on the carbs.  Gold irradiate and yellow zinc.  We cannot send in one carb to the plater as they have a minimum charge and quantity that we, as a vendor have to meet.  When parts came back, some of the small linkage pieces did get switched by mistake, but in no way did any major parts of the carb get thrown aside or switched out on purpose!  I know that every job has to be treated like itís my own. 

As to the famous green Teflon plated throttle shaft, there is no way to preserve that when doing a restoration and replating the carb parts.  The green throttle shaft cannot be separated from the throttle linkage ends without the use of special factory tooling that was used when the carburetors were manufactured new.  Once the shafts are plated yellow zinc, that green finish goes away.  Itís part of the plating process.  I do not switch these parts out and throw in another.  If CHP was doing that, we would have been out of business many years ago.  Itís not the way I operate my business.

I have since made changes here at CHP to insure this will never happen again.  We switched to another plater over a year ago who allows us to bag all of the carburetor parts up for each individual customerís carb.  Each one is named and logged in on a P.O.  There has not been another issue with co-mingled parts since this happened with Jeff-68.  This is part of the learning curve that comes with owning a restoration business.  I apologized to Jeff and did the best that I could for him.  I also told him that we do not use a flash light to look down into the throttle bores while doing the ďLegend Certification.Ē 

As a closing note I would say this to all in the hobby.  If you have such cherished parts on a survivor car that is all original, save yourself the stress and aggravation by leaving the parts be.  Do not restore anything.  Leave the car alone, drive it and enjoy it.

Jerry MacNeish
Camaro Hi-Performance, Inc.     
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Marty
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2010, 08:42:41 PM »

Jeff, what is your carburetor part number? I have a couple 68 parts carbs here if it's a 68.

Martin
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Martin Foltz
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68 Van Nuys Camaro
jeff68
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2010, 08:46:53 PM »

Jerry-  
I understand that you want to tell everybody that you "take responsibility" and "go the extra distance", but in the end you couldn't produce more than a few of my original parts.  I sent you hi-res close-up pictures of each and every part of my carburetor, and you still couldn't find them.  If my parts were on someone else's carb, I would have expected you to get the other carb back and get my parts back - that would have been going the extra distance.  Instead, you told me you looked around the shop.  The parts just didn't get up and walk away.  I'm sure you understand my frustration.

As for the green Teflon being destroyed during the plating process, I'm raising the BS flag on that one.  Yes, the plated linkage can not be separated from the green shaft.  However, the green shaft is unaffected by the plating process.  It is the sabndblasting step prior to plating that removes the green Teflon.  All you need to do is carefully mask the green Teflon during the prep step.  I actually have a part returned to me by you that has been replated but some of the green Teflon that wasn't sandblasted off remains in perfect condition.

Anyhow, I put the carb in a box and haven't looked at it for years.  Now, I'm sitting here looking at my CHP-restored Q-jet.  I still haven't had a chance to install it yet.  
I noticed a few things:
The threads on my fuel inlet are still all buggered up.  Why weren't they fixed?  
Also, why is there so much play between the primary cross-shaft and the carb body?  Isn't this supposed to get fixed as part of the rebuild?

You can PM or e-mail me to continue this discussion if you wish.
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68 L30 / M20 Convertible
Ash Gold
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2010, 02:23:57 PM »

having been in the retail business for over 35 years, and still in it..I have found out that you can not please everyone...with that note please close this discussion .....please
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big iron
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2010, 10:43:56 PM »

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOk, but I did not know I was having a discussion!
Bob
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My68SS
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2010, 07:21:49 AM »

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOk, but I did not know I was having a discussion!
Bob
lol, my thoughts too! I'm sure that Jeff and Jerry will continue any further deliberations they may have via pm and we can let Bob and this thread get back to the original topic.
I have been following the refinishing comments here with much interest, as I have another [correct] alternator for my car which is in need of a makeover.

After doing some research on tumbling, it seems the whole point of it with regard to alternators and the like, is to clean the aluminium with minimal disruption to the original surface cast texture - yes?
From that point of view, I would imagine that the media would be/could be too big to really have any impact on the shiny surface of the number stampings which are a very narrow V shape.
As for machined surfaces such as the bearing housing, I imagine that they may have plastic plugs machined to the right dimensions to protect those surfaces?

I may be wrong with all this - just surmising/theorising
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Rob
1968 L34/M40 SS
12 bolt posi 3.55
Build - 12C
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