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Author Topic: Just Bought "Numbers Matching" 67 RS/SS, Did I Make A Mistake?  (Read 11179 times)
naptownrick
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« on: September 09, 2010, 07:44:27 AM »

Hello,
    I just bought a nice condition survivor "numbers matching" 67 RS/SS. The car is in pretty nice condition, not fully restored, but fully documented. I have the protect-o-plate, original title, owners manual, and all "accessory" fliers that came with the car in the owners manual. The car was purchased in 1967 from a dealership that is about 20 miles from my house. After 39 years, the original owners sold it in 2006 to the guy I bought it from yesterday who lives about 15 miles from my house. He spent 4 years doing his best to clean up the car and do some minor restorative work, making sure to only restore the original parts, not replace anything unless it was absolutely necessary (such as the side view mirror which had badly pitted, dome light cover and other smaller parts. The engine was said to be original, was rebuilt, but not decked so all stampings are very clear. This is what I have found, I may have missed something and I would like some help:

VIN: 124377N186552 (matches protect-o-plate and tag in drivers door jamb)

Cowl Tag:
03A                                    E
67-12437   NOR   84114
760-Z                  G2
W  2LG   3SL
4P

Engine Block Stamp:
Partial VIN: 7N189552 (this is what I am worried about, and is not a typo on my part)
Code: VO22IMS
Block #: 3892657


I have decoded all of this and come up with everything being correct, date codes and all. What is not correct, is the 10th number in the vin and the corresponding 5th number on the partial VIN.  On the engine stamp it is a "9" and the actual vin on the car is a "6" and the protect-o-plate is a "6". Is it possible the previous owner was being sneaky and managed to find a date code correct, 1967 350CI engine that was only one digit off from their vin? Or, could the stamper at the plant flipped the "6" and the "9" when stamping this block? There is so much great documentation on this car, I would be surprised to find they scoured the US to find a block with almost the exact partial vin. The guy I bought the car from did not touch the engine other than cleaning it up.

Anyone have any ideas if this could have been a stamping mistake? I still love the car, and I dont believe I overpaid, but I would be much happier to clear this up. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks!
Rick
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tom
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2010, 09:08:03 AM »

To find a date code correct block with a vin off by exactly 3000 units seems unlikely. It's possible someone put the 6 upside down in the stamper. If they did there are probably a number of similarly stamped blocks. The experts will chime in I'm sure.
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Kelley W King
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2010, 09:58:42 AM »

Check some cast dates. Block, heads ,exhaust. Might not really prove anything but looking production dates and numbers might make you feel better or worse.
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naptownrick
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2010, 10:30:40 AM »

Thank guys! I was also thinking it would be tough to find a date code correct and correct 350CI block exactly 3000 units off, and have that somehow also have been an L48 SS 350/295. What is the chance the car with that vin (189552) was a 1967 350SS 4 speed with the engine built before the first week of march!

I make these assumptions from:

Block Casting: 3892657 = 1967 302 or 350
Engine Code: V022IMS = (V) Flint Engine, (022I) built on Feb 21st, (MS) L48 350/295 w/4 speed built in 1967
Heads: I found "12252" stamped on one of the heads, not sure what this means yet.

I plan on jacking the car up tonight and checking the transmission and the rear axle.

If any experts have an opinion I would love to hear it! Thanks!

Rick

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x77-69z28
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2010, 11:03:32 AM »

dont forget these guys were looking at these numbers backwards too! it is an upside down six. the casting date on my 67 rs-ss block has the six upside down. dont loose sleep over it. nice find by the way
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naptownrick
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2010, 11:17:14 AM »

Thanks, I was thinking everything else was too much of a coincidence. I could very easily see the 6 and 9 getting swapped by the stamper. It's like trying to decode the protect-o-plate, you get your 2's and 5's, 6's and 9's mixed up sometimes.

Rick 
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pjbizjak
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2010, 01:39:05 PM »

I have a 68 Z/28 04A that is all original except for the block and I have a lead on a 68 z/28 block that is only 238 units(vin) away from my original VIN and the assembly date is dead on. So yes it's possible to fine a close match but highly improbable. Close, yes, but I definitely think yours was a stamping screw up!
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naptownrick
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2010, 02:03:56 PM »

               I wish I knew more about the whole block production process, then I could make a few more assumptions. I wonder if the blocks and the VINs were consecutive and increasing, which would mean the blocks made for VINs around #189552 that are 3000 units away from my vin of 186552, would be way past the date code possible for that stamp. Meaning, blocks made for cars around the 189552 VIN would have Date Codes of April or May, which makes the date on my block of Febuary 21st not possible for a 189552 vin stamp.

Or I'm wrong, and they made 3000 blocks in a week at that factory and it is entirely possble this is not the original engine.

Wow, I think I am starting to speculate a little too much, but this is all really interesting.

Rick
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alex68rs
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 02:11:35 PM »

Hi
I just looked in my book name ''Chevy engine casting numbers 1955-93'' and for your engine block number 3892657, There are 4 possibilities

1-  327  64-67   Passenger,Chevelle   STD& Hi Perf, Small journal
2-  327  64-67   Truck                     Small Journal
3-  327  66-67   Corvette                 300,350hp,Small Journal, 2bolts main

4-  302-327    67     Camaro&Z28     Small Journal 2 bolts main

It doesn't talk about 350 cid. Is that an error on my book?
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naptownrick
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 02:37:18 PM »

I'm going off the CRG website ( http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml ) under the "Drivetrain Decode" in the "Block Casting Numbers" section. I am now noticing they do have that block # under the 1967 327 column as well as under the 1967 302 and 350 column. Nonetheless, I am sure I have a L48 block because of the IMPORTANT and correct stamp of the Engine Code right next to the VIN, which you can decode above the Block Casting Number section of that same webpage:

V022IMS = (V) Flint Engine, (022I) built on Feb 21st, (MS) L48 350/295 w/4 speed built in 1967

Therefore, I am sure this block is a L48 350/295 and went on a 4 speed car, which I have. The VIN is the only discrepancy.

I'm not sure about your book, maybe it just doesnt get into a lot of detail. Most people are sure the same block was used for 302/327/350 and they changed the stroke to increase displacement. CRG seems to be the best, and very complete. They're hosting this forum too!

Rick
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alex68rs
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 06:54:52 PM »

do you have some picture of your camaro. it seems to be a beautiful project. I agree with you for your engine if the stamp is there with this code it is a l48.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2010, 12:05:37 PM »

              I wish I knew more about the whole block production process, then I could make a few more assumptions. I wonder if the blocks and the VINs were consecutive and increasing, which would mean the blocks made for VINs around #189552 that are 3000 units away from my vin of 186552, would be way past the date code possible for that stamp. Meaning, blocks made for cars around the 189552 VIN would have Date Codes of April or May, which makes the date on my block of Febuary 21st not possible for a 189552 vin stamp.

Or I'm wrong, and they made 3000 blocks in a week at that factory and it is entirely possble this is not the original engine.

Wow, I think I am starting to speculate a little too much, but this is all really interesting.

Rick

Any close correlation between block casting dates and car VIN numbers is a coincidence; the VIN on the pad was stamped at the car assembly plant, not at the engine plant. The engine plant had no clue what car the engine would end up in. Each of the two engine plants made over 5,000 engines every day (300 per hour at each plant).
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jdv69z
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2010, 02:46:42 PM »

Hi
I just looked in my book name ''Chevy engine casting numbers 1955-93'' and for your engine block number 3892657, There are 4 possibilities

1-  327  64-67   Passenger,Chevelle   STD& Hi Perf, Small journal
2-  327  64-67   Truck                     Small Journal
3-  327  66-67   Corvette                 300,350hp,Small Journal, 2bolts main

4-  302-327    67     Camaro&Z28     Small Journal 2 bolts main

It doesn't talk about 350 cid. Is that an error on my book?

Yes the Camaro was also available with a 350 when the SS option was ordered. First year and first car that used a 350.

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
naptownrick
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2010, 12:11:53 PM »

Here are some pictures, obviously i need to swap this back to the correct paint, and put the black vinyl top back on. The price I paid definately allows for the restoration!
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naptownrick
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2010, 12:15:34 PM »

JohnZ,

         What is your take on the 9 and 6 issue I have with the engine's Partial VIN stamp vs the Full VIN? Could this have been a stamping mistake at the assembly plant? Or is it more likely one of the two previous owners tracked down this engine that was almost exactly the same partial vin stamp??

Thanks for your ideas!

Rick
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