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Author Topic: Correct subframe bolts  (Read 5445 times)
HOGDADDY
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« on: April 25, 2010, 09:21:46 AM »

I am almost positive that I was first to unbolt my subframe and feel these are the correct bolts. There was some discussion on TC on correct bolts and I did a search here and there but found no pics.
Anyway here is a pic of mine there are no markings that I can see.
Are these the real bolts used on the assembly line?
Do all subframe bolts 67-69 look the same?
Just curious is all and does anyone reproduce the correct bolts?



Btw these are pointed on the end just can't see it.
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2010, 02:11:04 AM »

Anyone?
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Hans L
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 11:52:39 AM »

I am pretty sure those are the core support bolts, not the subframe bolts.   Subframe bolts do not have the "built-in" washer.

I have pictures of both and will try to post later.
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2010, 12:44:18 PM »

All 6 of mine are the same and I have them at hand also. They all have the built in washer.
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2010, 03:45:05 PM »

Well I thought I had all 6 but think I may have trashed the 2 worst looking (still looking) ones so all I have is 4 that are all the same and all 4 have "built in" washers.

I am still pretty sure they all are the same anyone else have your originals?
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another kurt s
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2010, 07:33:31 PM »

I just bought a kit with all the bolts and body mounts.  It came with incorrect bolts but the body bolts were slightly larger than the core support bolts.  Not sure if this is how the factory did it.  The car was tore down 17 years ago so I have no idea what came off.  By the way, the kit came with six mounting bushings, two of each size.  So there are 3 different types for the subframe and core support.  I used the bolts that came with the kit and figure I can easily replace with originals if I can find them.
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Hans L
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2010, 08:27:09 PM »

According to the 1969 Camaro Assembly Manual, Page 41, the Core Support Bolt PN is 3914816 while the Subframe Bolt PN is 3912533.   As the PN are different, it's most likely the actual bolts are different.

I'll post pictures of mine in a little while.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 08:57:24 PM by Hans L » Logged

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Hans L
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 08:35:23 PM »

Also, if you're looking for reproductions, AMK Products appears to carry them.

Reference page 30 for 3914816 for the Core Support Bolt:  http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/24-38.pdf
or here's a direct link to the part:  http://www.amkproducts.com/bulk3.asp?part=B%2D10079

And reference page 23 for 3912533 for the Body Mount Bolts:  http://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/6-23.pdf
or here's a direct link to the part:  http://www.amkproducts.com/bulk3.asp?part=B%2D10180

However, the head markings for the body mount bolts differ from what were factory installed on my Camaro which are R - B  - W not "A" as per the repo.  The "A" could be correct, but they were not used on my '69 Camaro assembled in Van Nuys.

Hope this helps.
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Hans L
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2010, 08:53:26 PM »

Here's pictures of my original bolts.  These were taken before I had them re-plated.  They've since been replated (black phosphate) and look brand new.

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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2010, 09:44:43 PM »

I don't understand why I would have 4 of same I never unbolted any other first generation subframe I can see 2 core support being different as I can't find them (or know what I am looking for).
I should not have 4 of same unless they are original to my car.
Maybe 67 was different than 69.
I have a 68 AIM  and it shows a revision on the 4 body bolts and I see that the bolt numbers are different for core support now also.
The 68 AIM list same pn# you have listed also.
I wonder if 67 AIM list different numbers?

Btw I also have 8(-1) rusty washers that go with those subframe bolts too. 4- 2 7/16" size and 3 (missing 1)- 1 1/8" (these are the concave washers)

Looks like I possibly found 1 of the original core support retainers also and if thats right it looks like core support bolt could have been bigger or did it just hold washers on?



I have nos subframe bushings but probably should sell em for $$.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 10:32:18 PM by HOGDADDY » Logged
HOGDADDY
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2010, 10:39:04 PM »

Also look at what Heartbeat City sells for correct subframe hardware, interesting. I don't know if his are correct either but looks like its missing the special washers shown in the AIM (concave ones)......... 4 large and 2 smaller bolts.

http://www.heartbeatcity.com/store/product/14475/Camaro-Sub-frame-mounting-hardware--67-68-69/
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Hans L
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2010, 10:48:01 PM »

I was going to say that the subframe bolts have quite a bit bigger diameter than the core support bolts.   Go try this - take one of your core support bolts and see if it screws into a body mount.  I'd bet it doesn't and that should answer the question whether your's came with all the same bolts.
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2010, 10:51:41 PM »

I was going to say that the subframe bolts have quite a bit bigger diameter than the core support bolts.   Go try this - take one of your core support bolts and see if it screws into a body mount.  I'd bet it doesn't and that should answer the question whether your's came with all the same bolts.

It screws into the body mount hole perfectly! There can be little doubt that it is not the right bolts imho.

Heartbeat City shows the core support bolts smaller too like you say so that couldn't be an original core retainer in pic above I guess.
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68rs327conv
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2010, 05:10:23 AM »

I have picked up two original sets (supposedly) from camaro owners doing restorations, and the body mount bolts for position #2 and #3 both had the captured washer as part of the bolt head.  I am curious if any original 68 owners have bolts like these on there cars?

Mike
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Mike
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Hans L
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2010, 10:38:48 AM »

Hogdaddy - Good deal on the fit.  Now I'm curious to what the diameter of the bolt is.  Do you know?   Is it 5/8" or 1/2"? 

It's also clear the GM used different suppliers through the years and even during the same year as the same plant.   So long it met the bolt spec, it was probably on the approved list.   
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2010, 10:40:11 AM »

I just double checked the 68 AIM and accordingly the "retainer" retains 1,2,3, & 8 to the CORE SUPPORT prior to assembly to the frame.
 Also, I checked core support....... it is a much bigger hole and the retainer looks like it would function correctly there. I believe it is correct afterall.
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2010, 10:42:33 AM »

Hogdaddy - Good deal on the fit.  Now I'm curious to what the diameter of the bolt is.  Do you know?   Is it 5/8" or 1/2"?  

It's also clear the GM used different suppliers through the years and even during the same year as the same plant.   So long it met the bolt spec, it was probably on the approved list.    

It is 5/8" I checked.
Btw the 68 AIM shows 3 washers for the core support : SPL. (spring)washer ,P(fender washer?) washer and L (lock) washer
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 10:57:36 AM by HOGDADDY » Logged
Hans L
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2010, 11:03:47 AM »

Is your core support bolts also 5/8" as mine are 1/2"?  And yes, there is a spring washer for the core support.  I think mine were too weathered to save.
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2010, 11:28:31 AM »

Is your core support bolts also 5/8" as mine are 1/2"?  And yes, there is a spring washer for the core support.  I think mine were too weathered to save.

I cannot find them don't know what I did with them.
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Sauron327
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2010, 01:21:52 PM »

I was the first to remove my 67 bolts 23 years ago. The heads are all the same w/ integral washers and hash marks as the first post. Core supports are 1/2", S.frame are 5/8". My 68 subframe has bolts as shown in Reply#8, slide 2, Core support bolts MIA.
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HOGDADDY
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« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2010, 10:31:31 PM »

I was the first to remove my 67 bolts 23 years ago. The heads are all the same w/ integral washers and hash marks as the first post. Core supports are 1/2", S.frame are 5/8". My 68 subframe has bolts as shown in Reply#8, slide 2, Core support bolts MIA.

Are the subframe bolts on the 68 original also? If so your saying they are different than 67 or do you think G.M. used both ....bolts w/ integral washer and without on 67-69 Camaro's? Thanks in advance.
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1968RallySport
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« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2010, 08:40:27 PM »

The four rear subframe bolts on my 1968 LA car assembled the 4th week of December 1967 has the same bolts in your picture.
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2010, 11:32:58 PM »

I have just encountered this mess in the last few weeks...

The 10D VIN 9N531xxx very original 1969 Z I am restoring was parked in 1973 and has the Spring washer, flat washer, and lock washer in the front two body mount positions like shown in the late 68 and early 69 assembly manual.
The change date in the 69 manual was sept...

The flat washer which rests on the bushing is heat treated/blackened steel.
The spring washer is cad or zinc.
The plating is very nice on both pieces.

The Subframe bolts are RBW w/out integrated washer.
The Core support are indented head w/integrated washer.

I will get some pics up by this weekend
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
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« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2010, 11:43:51 PM »

Here is the Bolt, Spring washer and Flat washer.
Undercoating was sprayed from the 9 o'clock position and must have been sprayed almost horizontally across.
The undercoating flaked off the spring washer when it was loosened but you can see the where the bolt head blocked the undercoating spray thus causing the blocked portion to be exposed to the weather and rust.





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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
firstgenaddict
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« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2010, 11:51:54 PM »

The Left is the Reproduction the Right is the Original





TOP is Original - LOWER is Reproduction




Wonder how many restored 68's and early 69's have the right front mount components? 
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Hans L
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« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2010, 09:51:59 AM »


Wonder how many restored 68's and early 69's have the right front mount components? 

This is why I've gone through the pain of restoring as many of the original bolts as possible.  I did order some reproduction suspension bolts. Though the quality was top notch, I was dissappointed with differences in head markings.
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2010, 08:37:05 PM »

Attached are pictures of the bolts and washers AMK Products sells which match up with the hardware part numbers in the '69 assembly manual, page 41.  The bolts cost about $12 for a set of two, the washers $5 for a 4-piece set. 

It is very possible that more than one supplier provide hardware during for this application, just various head markings may be discovered .  It would be interesting to document the bold head markings vs. the build date of the car.

My original rubber cushions had the part number molded into the rubber.

Ref www.amkproducts.com

Good luck with your project.
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2010, 08:37:42 PM »

Here is the picture of the rubber cushion.
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2010, 09:01:27 AM »

I have yet to find a correct set of repro cushions.
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
68camaroz28
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« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 05:33:07 PM »

Bolts from our 68 01B NOR Camaro along with washer diameters and thickness.


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« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2010, 11:24:35 PM »

HOGDADDY;  I have an "early" (11A -66) '67 Coupe, and it has the 4 Sub-frame bolts like you pictured in your original post with the indented head and shoulder washer, and pointed.  These 4 are 5/8 in. X 3 in. long, I believe the Core support bolts should look the same, except they are only 1/2 in. X 3 in..  I believe mine are all original to the car.  I'm seeing all Repop's of the Sub-frame bolts with No indented head, No shoulder washer, and no Point on the other end - and they are claiming these correct, so I'm wondering if they changed somewhere along the way.  Good luck sorting this out.
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« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2010, 07:57:24 AM »

The AMK bolts look the "MOST CORRECT" although they do not have the RBW on the head.
I guess no one offers the spring washer combo... everyone seems to offer the "superseded" 69 version.   
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
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