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Author Topic: CE or CEA block codes for small bocks, Got DATA?  (Read 7345 times)
jettecher
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« on: October 26, 2005, 07:09:28 PM »

I am looking for a solid data on small block codes for CE and CEA engine blocks. Does anyone have ligitemate documentation that these blocks were in fact GM replacement or warranty bocks from the GM factory?

Can you post it or point me in the right direction?

Steve
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 08:07:33 PM »

Steve,

Start here

Ed
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Mark
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 08:35:49 PM »

Don't think that reference that a CE engine with an A suffix has been recycled (ie second time around) is correct.  I've seen A, B and C suffixes on CE engine stamps.  In the case of Flint built CE small block engines that would be 30,000 CE engines (or bare block, fitted block or complete engines), 30000 CEA engines, 30000 CEBs and then some number of CEC engines (assuming no CED engines exist), Thats at least 90,000 small blocks which is one heck of alot of replacement engines, or engine assemblies.

I believe (my theory) that the A, B and C suffixes indicate the type of components that made up the replacement.  A CE number indicates a complete engine, or perhaps a short block.  CEA is a fitted block (block, pistons rings and rods, but no crank or cam), CEB is a block only, CEC ??  Always looking to be educated though.  Bring on the documentation.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 09:03:22 PM »

Mark that is a lot of blocks under warranty for sure! I dont have any supporting data for how many engines were replaced under the 5/50 but I know it had a serious impact on GM's bottom line concluding with a change in warranty policy. I've heard percentages thrown out of 5% to 10% across GM product lines produced at Flint all of which being combined in the sequence warranty reserve you noted. I have also seen CE A, B, C, small block Flint combinations, however, big block Tonowando CE blocks with the additional character I have not seen?
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Mark
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 10:49:12 PM »

That would be 90,000 blocks a year too Shocked.  If you blew up your 69 engine in 70, or 71 it would get a CE0, or CE1 stamp on it.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2005, 09:59:55 AM »

I think the documentation in the form of a memo, that is somewhere around here, indicates the first number is for model year not year of replacement. I am skeptical of this from the observations I've made...but thats what it says Undecided Either way I dont know what effect this would have on the aloted block of 30k sequential numbers? I dont know what period the allocation sequence covered.

We might be getting off track of the original question. The CE prefix with a sequence number is a designation for a warranty action and is not an over the counter or crate engine designation. You wouldnt have been able to walk into the GM service department and order a 69 302 to replace your base 307 and receive a CE stamped block. Not that the door is closed completely on the possibility of some day using the sequence number to validate an engine replacement but I think it unlikely. I see nothing wrong with a paper documented vehicle and a correctly coded CE block as valid documentation. As with any full evaluation it is the "sum of the whole" that constitutes the pedigree. Hope this helps?   
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Z71
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2005, 04:08:05 PM »

That would be 90,000 blocks a year too Shocked. If you blew up your 69 engine in 70, or 71 it would get a CE0, or CE1 stamp on it.

But that covers more than just 302 engines, 307 and  350 are included covering Impala, Camaro, Chevelle, Truck.  90,000 engines to service 1 million vehicles is < 10%.
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Mike
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Mark
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2005, 09:07:34 PM »

A CE block, or assembly represents a major repair.  You don't get a CE engine because a lifter started ticking, or a valve started leaking oil and started puffing blue smoke and the engine needed to be torn down and individual components replaced.  You had to do some major damage to the engine for GM to even consider replacement.  A 10% failure rate in a major component of any companies product line (or even 5% since I'm sure GM made more than 1 million cars with small blocks in 69 across the Chevy line) would rapidly bankrupt that company.  Probably why you only get a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty today.  Do you know anyone who has ever got a brand new engine (or a short or long block) out of GM under warranty lately?
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Mark C.
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2005, 09:10:22 PM »

A CE block, or assembly represents a major repair. You don't get a CE engine because a lifter started ticking, or a valve started leaking oil and started puffing blue smoke and the engine needed to be torn down and individual components replaced. You had to do some major damage to the engine for GM to even consider replacement. A 10% failure rate in a major component of any companies product line (or even 5% since I'm sure GM made more than 1 million cars with small blocks in 69 across the Chevy line) would rapidly bankrupt that company. Probably why you only get a 12 month 12,000 mile warranty today. Do you know anyone who has ever got a brand new engine (or a short or long block) out of GM under warranty lately?

It's 3/36 these days, Mark Wink

And yes, I know many folks that have received entire assemblies under warranty.  Actually, in the 60's/70's, more repair work would be performed before an assembly was replaced.  Today, with complexity of things and the time involved in repair, it's more expeditious to replace the entire assembly, send the defective one back for reman and move on.
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ccargo
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2005, 09:38:25 PM »

One in ten seems a bit steep to me as well. I have heard stories about the solid lifter guys returning to the well multiple times over five years of hole shots Shocked Can you imagine being able to go to your local GM dealer in the afternoon and later the same evening be at the strip with a competitive unmodified rocket with a drivetrain warranty Cool I was born a decade too late!
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Leonard1
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 08:24:23 AM »

. . . The CE prefix with a sequence number is a designation for a warranty action and is not an over the counter or crate engine designation. You wouldnt have been able to walk into the GM service department and order a 69 302 to replace your base 307 and receive a CE stamped block. . .
How were the crate motors designated?  I have one from 1967 that came in my car, and the pad is blank.  I don't think it has been resurfaced, either.  It was supposedly bought as a short block.
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JohnZ
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2005, 10:56:55 AM »

Most over-the-counter replacement engines or short blocks in the 60's were ordered by part number based on their appication, and had blank pads; those ordered specifically as 5/50 warranty replacements in the late 60's - early 70's were "CE"-stamped (and 5/50 warranty replacement transmissions were "CT"-stamped).
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Leonard1
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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2005, 09:24:45 AM »

Thanks, JohnZ.  That adds up to what I've got.
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