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Author Topic: Towing Car Trailers In NC  (Read 11413 times)
Jerry@CHP
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« on: September 16, 2009, 10:06:41 PM »

Does anyone know about towing car trailers through NC?  I got pulled over today on the way to the Charlotte race track by a state trooper.  He told me that I have to go over the scales and anything over 10K in gross vehicle weight has to do so.  I had never heard of this as I am not commercial.  No lettering on the truck or trailer.  This cop was an a- hole too.  I have to wonder if this applies to personal vehicles and was this guy just being a jerk.  Detained me for about an hour, and wrote me a warning ticket.  In the 30+ years that I've been towing car trailers, this has never happened anywhere in the country.  Ruined my day!  I would like to know what NC law states??

Jerry
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tim69camaro
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2009, 05:24:17 AM »

10,001 pounds is the limit. Here is the link to the section. See page 14.

http://www.ncdot.gov/doh/operations/dp_chief_eng/maintenance/permits/docs/NorthCarolinaLaws.pdf
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Tim Bailey
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2009, 05:36:09 AM »

We used to make runs from CT to Canada with a crew cab and 6 place snowmobile trailer. If the scales were open you had to stop. If the DOT was on patrol they could pull you over and use portables. Lot of guys running borderline or broken equipment force them to try to maintain safety. Stricter enforcements happen when casualties result. As they did here last year when a company's poorly maintained brakes failed and deaths were the result. Sometimes some can have an attitude but they got you and they'll park that rig right there if they want to. Years ago they would allow you to adjust your air brake cans on the side of the road if they were out. Now they can make you call a hook.
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2009, 05:41:19 AM »

Tim,

Looks like that document states commercial rigs, not personal?  Just to clear, my truck is a 2500HD shot bed crew cab Chevy truck, not even a dually.  26' tag trailer.

Does it apply to something like this?

Jerry
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lakeholme
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2009, 08:16:19 AM »

I've made an inquiry, but it may take a while.  On the NCDOT website they refer to a document about private trailers but there is no way to pull it up. 

If you are not exempt, that means they could have pulled anyone towing a car to Autofair last week, but I've not heard anything about that happening.

I do know they are even pulling 15 passenger church vans with or without trialers in NC that do not have DOT numbers and are from out of state...
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2009, 05:27:20 PM »

I drive truck but only through OR and WA.  In our states you have to have a PUC to be under truck and scale rules.  No PUC, you don't stop.  I do know that some states apply the same rules to cars pulling trailers, motor homes etc. as trucks, in having to stop at scales.   I don't know if that includes NC.  I do personally know that the cops or DOT people have no sense of humor about blowing by a scale.  They get very indignant.
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68Z28
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2009, 07:19:19 PM »

So what is the legal weight limit a pick up and trailer can weigh in NC and still be legal ? And what do you have to do if you exceed that weight ?
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68Zproject
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2009, 09:26:33 PM »

And what do you have to do if you exceed that weight ?

Bend over.   The fines are steep.
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 01:09:37 AM »

Dunno about now, but the law used to say if a truck/trailer was over 30' in length it was considered a commercial vehicle regardless of weight, and the driver had to have a CDL. Seems like the cop would have told you that, but then, NC highway patrolmen are towering prepuces of collosal proportions. They are nasty, rude, and arrogant phalluses wearing uniforms and have a God complex. Please don't cross off NC as a good place to come, Jerry! Our economy is in the toilet and I'm sure the powers that be have instructed our esteemed state troopers to write as many tickets as they can to boost revenue--and further hurt our floundering state's reputation. Don't take it personally.
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 10:43:24 AM »

Jerry,seems like you were at the wrong place at the wrong time.  I've been pulling car and horse trailers around the state of NC for 13 years and never stopped in a weigh station nor been pulled for over weight.  From what I understand as long as the truck is not over weight for what it is registered for and same on the trailer you should be O.K. That is why you got a warning not a ticket.  A warning is a cops way of admitting he mad a mistake.
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tim69camaro
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2009, 07:30:07 PM »

I have never been stopped in NC pulling trailers and large campers. I always was ready to beg for forgiveness if pulled.

I was with some friends several years ago going to Michigan, I beleive it was in Ohio but I was not driving, and they pulled all three rigs. All received citations for failing to stop at the weight station and for not having inspections on the trailer. I had never heard of trailer inspections at the time.

Many trailer vendors promote trailers with weight stickers less than 10,000 pounds, say 9,999, so they get around the rules. I think many east coast states have similar rules. Georgia has several enclosed trailer manufacturing facilities that market 9,999 pound trailers as an example.

While stickly hearsay, I believe in NC the rules for commercial apply if over 10,000 pounds regardless if indiviually owned. I think you need to buy commercial or weighted tags if the trailer is rated over 10,000 pounds. We always purchased those tags for our tow trucks.

But I really don't know for certain. Let's see what the response is from the person that called NCDMV.
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Tim Bailey
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2009, 08:37:28 PM »

I had to look in NC general statutes to find the definition of a commercial vehicle. It appear the weight limit would bne below 26000 pound for your set up. I am still looking.

(3d)     Commercial Motor Vehicle. – Any of the following motor vehicles that are designed or used to transport passengers or property:

a.         A Class A motor vehicle that has a combined GVWR of at least 26,001 pounds and includes as part of the combination a towed unit that has a GVWR of at least 10,001 pounds.

b.         A Class B motor vehicle.

c.         A Class C motor vehicle that meets either of the following descriptions:

1.         Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver.

2.         Is transporting hazardous materials and is required to be placarded in accordance with 49 C.F.R. Part 172, Subpart F.

d.         Repealed by Session Laws 1999, c. 330, s. 9, effective December 1, 1999.
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Tim Bailey
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2009, 09:25:22 PM »

I think I found the statute NCGS 20.118.1. If a vehicle weights over 10,001 pounds it must enter a weight station. This was not under the commercial vehicle section and is not just the trailer. Since this is the combined weight of truck and trailer gross vehicle weight rating most trucks and car trailers would be over the limit. Since the door rating for a truck plus trailer trailer tag is over regardless of the loading it appears you must enter the weigh station. It appears you are lucky to get the warning, I have never received a warning from a NC Highway Patrol. I am still interested the DMV response.

In another part of the statutes there is an exemption for campers. Add windows, stripes and a Winnobago sticker and breeze right by. Grin Sorry Jerry, I did not find an exemption for 1st generation Camaro owners, but there should be such a law. That would have helped me and my freinds over the years with many citations: speeding, prearranged racing, flagging a prearranged race, eluding police, etc. By the way the friend that received the ticket for flagging the race was thrown out of court because one of the cars was a Pinto. Since the judge's daughter had a Pinto he could not believe the Pinto was in a race.  Huh His nickname is still flagman. The Pinto had a 302 v-8 Ford.

Here it is.

Any person operating a vehicle or a combination of vehicles having a GVWR of
10,001 pounds or more or any vehicle transporting hazardous materials that is required
to be placarded under 49 C.F.R. § 171-180 must enter a permanent weigh station or
temporary inspection or weigh site as directed by duly erected signs or an electronic
transponder for the purpose of being electronically screened for compliance, or
weighed, or inspected.
If the vehicle's weight

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Tim Bailey
Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2009, 10:05:33 PM »

I think I know the answer, just stop and there will be no issues.  I talked with many of the racers at the track and everyone including the locals and all have different answers.  I do have small 2" writing on the door side of the trailer, CHP and maybe that is why I was stopped.  I didn't even think to ask this cop if I was being flagged as commercial.  He was just a jerk.........my gross weight was 18,000 lbs with truck and trailer and I was told that I was okay.

I will still file a complaint against this a-hole  Barney Fife.

The good news is the new Charlotte race track is probably the best in the country and even in the 2100 corrected altitude, I still managed to pull off 10.70's ET's......and won class for D/Stock, another Wally.  Car pulled huge wheel stand on the first run.  Higher than the photo I posted here a few weeks back.  Had to change underware when I got back to the trailer.  The eliminator starts tomorrow morning at 8:30 weather permitting.

Today, I went to Shelby, NC to inspect a car.  Came back and spent the afternoon in one of the suites in the tower.  One of my customers, Charlie Lingenfelter has a suite there and his brother was very well known for racing and the work that he did with Corvettes.  John Lingenfelter.  Was amazed to see how the upper crust of the sport spend their time at the track!

Jerry 
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PURESS
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 02:53:19 PM »

Jerry...Is your truck registered as CHP or do you have it registered in Just your name?
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PURESS
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2009, 02:54:38 PM »

And is your trailer registered that way also?
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2009, 08:41:32 PM »

Truck and trailer are registered in my name.  Not a company name.  Thought about filing a complaint in NC but I know that would be a waste of time.  I would like some answers as to WHY I was pulled over.

Jerry
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Sauron327
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2009, 09:10:39 PM »

Truck and trailer are registered in my name.  Not a company name.  Thought about filing a complaint in NC but I know that would be a waste of time.  I would like some answers as to WHY I was pulled over.

Jerry

You said the name was on the bottom of the door but that may not be why. A lot of guys I know have "Not for Hire" on the bottom of the door. I had that on the bottom of the flatbed when hauling cars. Reasons for pulling flatbeds and trailers over are based on safety concerns and revenue and can be done at random or not at all. There does not have to be an obvious invitation like a light out to support "probable cause". It's a rig, it's on the road, it's open for an inspection.
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2009, 08:42:38 AM »

well said...been pulling a 16' trailer for 5 years now for my business and have been pulled over once a year for the last 5 years(I am commerical) and they always seem to find something...safety concerns ..yes and revenue...YES
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lakeholme
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2009, 09:56:22 AM »

Jerry,

Just got off the phone with a friend at NCDOT (took me a while to catch up with him), he says yes, private trailers are being pulled over if they go by the weight station.  Apparently, it is proving to be a real pain for larger horse trailers, etc.  Were you anywhere close to the weight station above the speedway?  How close were you to Concord and the speedway?  I'm just wondering because both the deputies and highway patrol officers that work around the speedway would probably have given you a whole lot more slack and had a better attitude.  The deputies that work the Autofair all seem to be classic car guys.

As to the character of the trooper, let me remind you that Barney was a deputy and Andy would have kept him straight.  I used to live in the real NC Mayberry... But those "guys out of Raleigh", well, none of us here in Mayberry can understand those guys either.

Yes, the new dragway is great!  Please don't let one bad apple keep you from coming to NC!
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Phillip
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2009, 12:57:56 PM »

I got pulled over on I-77 just as I entered into NC.  There is a weigh station there.  I do appreciate the inifo and will put it to good use in the future.  I just wish I knew more when I was pulled over.  I would have asked questions.  Commercial verses non commercial.

Jerry
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Pex68
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2009, 03:04:20 PM »

So I'm confused, being a non-resident of NC, you stop at the weigh station as you enter the state, they weigh you and if you’re under/over 10,001 they do what???  And being a non-resident, non-commercial, how are you even supposed to know you’re supposed to stop?  What other states have this BS law?
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Chris P
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2009, 03:47:06 PM »

Jerry,

Sorry to hear about the incident. It would ruin my day too. I've certainly never had a problem in MD, PA, WV, or DE.

Dd you get a ticket? What was the fine? Any points?

Congrats on the racing accomplishments.

Best,

John
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John
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2009, 04:46:43 PM »

my citation this year was "fail to display company name", fine $178.....paid the fine and had my name and address painted on trailer...recieved in the mail TODAY Late payment advisory and final demand notice....WHAT.....citation for Failure to stop placard vechile at RR crossing owe $255 more...this should be fun...there is no railroad crossing on the highway where I was stopped...it's a highway/interstate/road...Lady on the phone said she could not do anything about this and I will have to go to court...December 8 is the next opening...chevy 2500 pulling a 16' cargo trailer carrying PEPPERIDGE FARM cookies and crackers...nothing too Hazard(maybe for your health if you eat too much)..should be fun...I have a phone call to the police officer now ..waiting for a return call
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Sauron327
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2009, 06:40:33 PM »

Jerry,

Sorry to hear about the incident. It would ruin my day too. I've certainly never had a problem in MD, PA, WV, or DE.

Dd you get a ticket? What was the fine? Any points?

Congrats on the racing accomplishments.

Best,

John

There are no fines or points for a warning; that's what he got.

Like I've said; we pulled in when the station was open. Crew cab dually with a 3 axle trailer. He just told us to keep motoring but could have weighed and checked everything if he wanted to. No big deal.  I had a hand lettering business and when my clients called needing a new truck lettered I got there asap. If they get caught running without the name and DOT numbers there is a fine. And the numbers have to be a minimum height. One driver said at one stop the guy actually measured them to make sure they were 2 inches tall.

I ran with my friend Paul in his 79 Mack triaxle and inspections were commonplace. And obviously dreaded.
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jmcbeth
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2009, 10:18:33 AM »

Yes, I re-read Jerry's post and saw that it was a warning. Thanks.

I am still wondering what the correct action is. If you are a private citizen (not a business) towing a car in a trailer, do you need to stop at weigh stations or not? Is this a state-by-state issue, or a federal issue? Any state police officers on this board that can shed some light? I am constantly transporting my Camaros back and forth between MD and WV on I-70 and I-81, passing weigh stations both ways in both states. I never even considered stopping before, now am worried...
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John
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« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2009, 05:30:48 PM »

I'm with you John.  Again, what's the process?
So I'm confused, being a non-resident of NC, you stop at the weigh station as you enter the state, they weigh you and if you’re under/over 10,001 they do what???  And being a non-resident, non-commercial, how are you even supposed to know you’re supposed to stop?  What other states have this BS law?
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Chris P
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2009, 08:15:16 AM »

You might want to read up on the Legistration(?)...August 1, 2011 says all vechicles over 10,000 lbs must have a D.O.T. number, This is combined weight, truck and trailer.....so do non commercial vechiles need one also...I am beginning to think big brother is watching over us...and to be safe..I'll bet you will need one....and I would say if you get a D.O.T. number you will have to have it insepected every year by a certified D.O.T. mechanic...TOYS can Be Expensive...But we LOVE THEM
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jmcbeth
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« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2009, 08:52:10 PM »

You might want to read up on the Legistration(?)...August 1, 2011 says all vechicles over 10,000 lbs must have a D.O.T. number, This is combined weight, truck and trailer.....so do non commercial vechiles need one also...I am beginning to think big brother is watching over us...and to be safe..I'll bet you will need one....and I would say if you get a D.O.T. number you will have to have it insepected every year by a certified D.O.T. mechanic...TOYS can Be Expensive...But we LOVE THEM

Wow. So, this is nation-wide, eh? Do you suppose we will receive a notice from someone, or are we just supposed to know this...
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John
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« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2009, 06:45:52 AM »

I'm wondering if something classified as a "recreactional vehicle" will not classify for the new rules?

Jerry
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« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2009, 08:04:22 AM »

Jerry,

Looks like if you are on the Interstate pulling anything which may combine to 10,000+ lbs, has hazerdous materials (gasoline in the car you are towing???), is even remotely related to commercial (CHP???) and/or capable of carrying more than 8 persons you could get pulled.  As I've said above, church vans and two horse trailers are getting DOT numbers.  As you have said, it would be great if that trooper had been a little more civil and explained why he pulled you over...
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Phillip
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« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2009, 08:45:13 AM »

Have no idea about getting DOT numbers and I have to wonder if when you do, this becomes an annual fee to drain our pockets more than we are already paying in taxes and such?  My truck and trailer are in my name and that's the way it will stay until something changes.  My trailer is registered in Maine as that's been a loop hole for many years.  Much cheaper and many racers do it and most of the tractor and trailers that you see have Maine tags.

Jerry
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« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2009, 08:51:49 AM »

It's either another grab from your wallet or the fact that nine little old ladies in a church van are hazerdous...  Obviously the enforcement agencies can argue the environment, safety, etc. but they sure are casting a very wide net....
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Phillip
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« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2009, 12:40:52 PM »

I am pretty sure that you will have to have your truck and trailer certified and a sticker in your window to drive on the interstate..almost like  a state park pass..pass the plate everybody....(wow almost 3 years on this board and I am finally a jr...not a newbie...yeah)
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« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2009, 08:56:02 PM »

If anyone can point to DOT regulations regarding the upcoming required registration of trailers, it would be very helpful. If the rules are changing, one would reasonably expect the state in which your trailer is registered to send out notices informing us of new regulations.
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John
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« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2009, 11:52:26 AM »

I don't know about your state, but I am in NJ. Rules change without notification. It is considered to be my responsibility to keep current or accept the consequences of my ignorance.
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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2009, 09:56:44 PM »

I don't know about your state, but I am in NJ. Rules change without notification. It is considered to be my responsibility to keep current or accept the consequences of my ignorance.

Exactly. It's the citizen's responsibility to know the law. One's yard would be filled daily if everyone was notified of every change for every law. All DOT regs are supposed to be known prior to travelling on the road. Truckers do it because it's their job. We did it when towing cars. And the same principle applies to recreational vehicles that have "x" weight. Not for hire yes, but R & R's apply nonetheless. I'm sure they would not have been pleased if we had no trailer brakes when hauling a 6 place snowmobile trailer with a recreational dually crew cab.
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« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2009, 08:26:26 PM »

I don't know about your state, but I am in NJ. Rules change without notification. It is considered to be my responsibility to keep current or accept the consequences of my ignorance.

OK, I did some research for the State of Maryland and here's what I found:


“UNIFIED CARRIER REGISTRATION ACT”

The “Unified Carrier Registration Act” (UCRA), which became effective in the latter part of 2007, replaced the Single-State-Registration Program. Under the UCRA, all motor carriers, brokers, freight forwarders, and persons leasing vehicles over 10,000 pounds are required to pay a registration fee for power units, trailers and semi-trailers that operate in “interstate commerce.” Maryland does not participate in the UCRA, but Maryland motor carriers, brokers, freight forwarders and individuals leasing vehicles over 10,000 pounds which are used in “interstate commerce,” (that travel out of state) will be required to register under the UCRA.

Upon further investigation, I found the following definitiions:

“Motor carrier” means a person providing commercial motor vehicle (as defined in section 31132 of 49 USC) transportation for compensation.
   “Motor private carrier” means a person, other than a motor carrier, transporting property by commercial motor vehicle (as defined in section 31132 of 49 USC) when - (A) the transportation is as provided in section 13501 of 49 USC; (B) the person is the owner, lessee, or bailee of the property being transported; and (C) the property is being transported for sale, lease, rent, or bailment or to further a commercial enterprise.
   “Broker” means a person, other than a motor carrier, who sells or arranges for transportation by a motor carrier for compensation.
   “Freight forwarder” means a person who arranges for truck transportation of cargo belonging to others, utilizing for-hire carriers to provide the actual truck transportation, and also performs or provides for assembling, consolidating, break-bulk and distribution of shipments and assumes responsibility for transportation from place of receipt to destination.
   “Leasing company” means a person or company engaged in the business of leasing or renting for compensation motor vehicles they own without drivers to a motor carrier, motor private carrier, or freight forwarder.

My read of all of the above is that I do not have to register, because I am not a commercial rtransporter. Sound right?
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« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2009, 09:56:46 AM »

You are probably right, but they could pull you over because they don't know you are not commercial and your trailer better pass the basic walk around(Breakaway for brakes) cuz I'm sure you do not want to leave your trailer(and our vaulable camaros) sitting in(on) the wayside while you go get parts to make it work(or pass)...I know I would be nervous leaving my car behind...just a thought
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« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2009, 02:29:47 PM »

My read of all of the above is that I do not have to register, because I am not a commercial rtransporter. Sound right?

As I have said above, lots of various trailer pulling folks and church vans have thought they were exempt...
Which is what Jerry thought until he drove past a weigh station in another state.  Thankfully, our NC trooper was just rude, not malicious.  I think PURESS has hit the nail on the head!

BTW, here's what the NC Crime Contol and Public Safety site says:

"Vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 lbs. or more used as part of a business (including a non-profit organization) and crosses state lines, are considered commercial motor vehicles for purposes of most of the safety regulations. This applies to single vehicles (trucks and vans) and to combinations of vehicles (such as a truck pulling a trailer or other equipment). At 26,001 lb. and above GVWR, additional requirements also apply (Commercial Driver's License and Drug and Alcohol Testing). In addition, vehicles that carry hazardous materials and certain passenger carrying vehicles are considered commercial regardless of GVWR."

« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 02:41:19 PM by lakeholme » Logged

Phillip
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jmcbeth
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« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2009, 11:36:35 AM »

You are probably right, but they could pull you over because they don't know you are not commercial and your trailer better pass the basic walk around(Breakaway for brakes) cuz I'm sure you do not want to leave your trailer(and our valuable camaros) sitting in(on) the wayside while you go get parts to make it work(or pass)...I know I would be nervous leaving my car behind...just a thought

Well, if you think about it, it's reasonable for a policeman to verify that the trailer is safe. Mine is and I have all of the required safety features. I'll be sure to post when/if I get stopped.
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John
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« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2009, 05:46:00 PM »

Had my hearing today..No ONE and I mean NO ONE..could figure out why I was being charge for Failure to Stop at RR crossing...Took them over an hour and a half to straighten this mess out and I wasn't even on the list for the hearing Today...sat for 2 1/2 hours waiting for my turn...Not really Happy if you know what I mean..But am Happy to have this worked out..Record cleared and no Fine
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