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Author Topic: Still confused on Smog systems!!!!  (Read 4210 times)
ogbean
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« on: March 24, 2006, 11:21:22 PM »

So...like...i have read the reports and threads. But im still confused on the smog system. My car is potentially a L30/M20 car...not 100% sure yet...but for now thats how i am gonna restore it...even though it wont be #'s matching.... would this car have came with the A.I.R. System?
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David

1968 L30 4spd Huh, Rally Green, White Vinyl Top, Ivory Houndstooth Interior (716), D55 console, D91 Stripe
KevinK
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2006, 08:12:52 AM »

What year is your car? (assuming Camaro), ...is it Auto or Stick? ...lastly if it were originally sold in CA, ...that might change things.
  My understanding:
  '67 Camaro only had smog if built to be sold in CA
  '68 -'69: All built to be sold in CA had smog
               All Big Blocks had it Auto or stick(again Camaro, ...Chevelle was different for example)
               All manual cars (meaning Camaros) DID have smog
                 ...which implies the only automatics to have it were BB or CA sold cars.
 
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ogbean
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2006, 11:37:51 AM »

My car is a 68 camaro... i am building it with the L30 327 engine and the M20 4 speed... i doubt it was sold in cali...i have the 1970, 72, and 75 licence plates still in the trunk, theya re all albamas...but the 78 plate is still on the tail and its a mississippi plate, alcorn county to be exact.
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David

1968 L30 4spd Huh, Rally Green, White Vinyl Top, Ivory Houndstooth Interior (716), D55 console, D91 Stripe
lakeholme
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2006, 03:02:18 PM »

Not trying to beg the point, but doesn't Kurt's report on emmissions make that clear?   http://www.camaros.org/emissions.shtml

To quote:
"In 1968 and 1969, the California and federal emissions requirements were the same and all cars were built to the same 50-state standard. The AIR system was installed on all L6 cars with manual transmissions, all small blocks with manual transmissions, and all Camaros with big blocks. (Chevelles and full-size cars with the 396/325hp engine and TH400 transmission were the only 68-69 big block cars to not have smog pumps.) Only the automatic L6 and automatic small block Camaros did not have smog pumps, instead they had the simpler Controlled Combustion System. Generally speaking, an automatic car required less aggressive emission control than a manual transmission car because the engine load (and carburetor fuel metering consistency) was more stable and predictable."

My 68 L30 is a southern car (out of Florida) but is automatic, so it does not have the AIR system.  But if you want to restore it to L30/M20 (great idea, by the way) then the report says, "all small block with manual transmissions" did.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2006, 03:13:46 PM by lakeholme » Logged

Phillip
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2006, 01:29:54 AM »

Thanks Phillip.
I was about to go look at the report to see how I could make it clearer. Smiley
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Kurt S
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ogbean
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2006, 11:21:24 AM »

Ohhhh.... i get it now... i must have overlooked that line in the report.
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David

1968 L30 4spd Huh, Rally Green, White Vinyl Top, Ivory Houndstooth Interior (716), D55 console, D91 Stripe
lakeholme
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2006, 04:53:38 PM »

Now, let me ask both you guys (Supernova and Kurt or anybody else) is there any real "advantage" to putting the AIR system on a car?  (Other than originality?)  From my experience with early 70s cars (when they were really original, as in "brand new"), most of the early smog devices were really not all that effective and basically lowered your gas mileage (OK, from 10 mpg to 8 on a muscle car).  I'm not proposing that we (then and now) break any pollution laws, etc., but other than for the look does it really make any real difference on a 68 in 2006???
I especially wonder since Supernova has already said he doesn't have matching numbers...

I understand from the report why automatics got by with the Controlled Combustion System.  But from what I remember from a 68 Chevelle (then) and my 68 Camaro now, they both seem far too "Leaky" to do much good. 

My state (NC) makes most newer cars have emissions inspections according to pollution levels in their county.  Interestingly enough, the state legislature eventually exempted olders cars.
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Phillip
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Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA (and restoring a 40 Buick Special for it)
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair, presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA, is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast USA."
ogbean
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2006, 09:00:13 PM »

Very good post lakeholme u brought up some very interesting questions.... also u brought to my attenton the gas milage issue. I want my car to drive AND feel as if it were straight frome the dealership in 1968!!! Its a sence of internal joy that i am after. I am going to use as many used parts as possible to help achieve that "mental bliss" that I am in seek of with my car... if i leave off something like the smog system... then i will know that it should be there...but it isnt... my car is all about 1)Restoring a piece of automotive history and 2)Bring my first car to a mint condition state... without overlooking a single factor.

Thanks,
David Gregory
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David

1968 L30 4spd Huh, Rally Green, White Vinyl Top, Ivory Houndstooth Interior (716), D55 console, D91 Stripe
KurtS
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2006, 01:08:40 AM »

No advantage.
AIR is a relatively primitive system. It tries to complete the combustion in the exhaust. Better to have a better design (like any newer car has) and complete the combustion in the combustion chamber....
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Kurt S
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lakeholme
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2006, 09:07:53 AM »

Supernova: And I agree with you!  You are taking what you've got and trying to work your way back to original.  That's exactly what I am working toward.  You are making several posts that I think are helpful to everyone and certainly gets me thinking. Thanks!
Let us know how you work out the "not matching numbers" issue --if you do?!?  That is my biggest issue... and I'm sure it is for most of us.  There are a lot of folks working on forgotten or cloned cars to get back to original (or as close as possible).

Kurt: that's what I figured. I had a 73 Ford product (too embarassed to even say what), which was pretty much the year that muscle cars died.  About a year after I bought it, the dealership realized my "smog pump" (as they called it) wasn't even working and I HAD to have it fixed.  Up to that point the car had run great.  After they "fixed" it, no one could get it running right.  The best answer the dealership  could give me was "Hey, this is a government mandated thing... not our idea." I traded for a Chevy, which had "reduced" horsepower but at least it ran right!

Thanks for the info.  Great thread!
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Phillip
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Planning 2016 Sentimental Tour, AACA (and restoring a 40 Buick Special for it)
AACA Southeastern Division Spring Meet Chair
"Charlotte AutoFair, presented by the Hornets Nest Region, AACA, is the largest and greatest Collector Vehicle Event in the Southeast USA."
ogbean
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2006, 11:36:27 AM »

lakeholme... as far as the numbers matching thing.... im going to try to get all the casting numbers to matc as well as the date codes if possible... the only #'s that wont match will bb the block and trans vin stamps.... sure i could have them machined and restamped.... but i DISSAGREE WITH THIS practice very much... the only time a block should be decked is if it is warped beyour usable limit... and even then i am biased on whether it should be restamped...
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David

1968 L30 4spd Huh, Rally Green, White Vinyl Top, Ivory Houndstooth Interior (716), D55 console, D91 Stripe
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