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Author Topic: Blog compares 1st gens to the new 5th gen and is somewhat unkind...  (Read 6315 times)
MMMM_ERT
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« on: May 14, 2009, 09:58:34 AM »

http://www.examiner.com/x-10974-Kansas-City-Classic-Cars-Examiner~y2009m5d13-Driven--2010-Camaro-SS

Let him know what you think...

Driven! 2010 Camaro SS
May 13, 7:19 PM
         

Suddenly, it's 1969.  It looks similar, but it isn't.
I recently had a chance to drive the 2010 Camaro in both the V6 and SS versions, and the experience certainly was an eye-opener.

“But, Craig, why are you talking about this in the ‘classic car’ section?”  Good question.  And the answer really is pretty much skin deep.  Clearly, the styling of the 2010 Camaro was directly influenced by the ’69 model, and as a former owner of a nice first-generation Camaro, the comparison is inevitable.

And a little one-sided.  The only thing these two cars really have in common is the amount of attention they draw.  Let’s face it; an early Camaro is not among the highest-quality rides ever made.  Don’t get me wrong; the cool factor is out of this world.  Equipped right, they can sound mean, run fast, and look awesome.  They are everything you would ever want and expect a muscle car to be.  But if you’re being truly objective, they’re also cheap and tinny.  The seats are as thin as a stadium cushion and the trunk shuts with an unsatisfying clang.  And those brakes—let’s just say, brace yourself, ‘cause this is gonna hurt.

Not so with the new version.  This thing just oozes quality.  So much so, it not only surpasses the ’69 version, but it completely outclasses the last Camaro produced in 2002 in nearly every subjective and objective measure.  Just look at the details—the instrument panel, the seats, the fit and finish.  It’s all loosely retro, but completely modern at the same time.

The driving experience was equally as impressive.  Not a rattle, shake, or shimmy to be found.  The 6.2-liter V8, armed with more than 400-hp, is just as delicious as you would expect it to be.  The 300-hp V6 is no slouch either.  It’s not as satisfying as the V8, of course, but it can achieve 26-mpg on the highway, and blow the doors off of most cars on the road.

The new Camaro represents a different kind of history than those of the past.  One of the appealing parts of an old car is that you can imagine someone looking our over the hood all those years ago, watching the world change through the view of the windshield.  Where had the people been that sat in that seat?  Where had those hands worked that touched that steering wheel.  That car represents history, and you are a part of it.

On the other hand, the new Camaro shows what Chevrolet and General Motors has learned in forty years.  While giving a nod to tradition, it showcases the greatest in technology and engineering.  The idea that a company could take the same basic package and improve it to this extent says a lot about how far their products have come.  The ’69 Camaro will always be the favorite, but the 2010 is the best.
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77thor
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 11:31:31 AM »

I have yet to drive the new Camaro, so I really can't comment on it,
but I have no real problem with what he says about the first gen's.

Modern cars are built better from the factory. It's a fact.
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Fred - Milwaukee, WI
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 12:24:09 PM »

We all love the first gen and many of us have been or are now owners. What he says has a ring of truth to it even if he has taken some editorial liberties with the facts. If you have never seen a 2010 Camaro in person, you should. Objectively, It is nothing at all like a first gen other than some styling cues. They look like cousins but they are more like grandpa and grandson if you ask me.  Wink  There is 40 years worth of technology and innovation going up against a larger than life historical legend. They each deserve respect but different reasons.

My 2010 Camaro has been built and I am waiting for it to be delivered in a few weeks.  Smiley

-Mark.

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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 01:01:12 PM »

I agree...40 years of engineering will make the newer version a better performer and tighter car.  However, he makes the 1st gens sound like junk...and that's where I took offense.

My comments  (you can leave your comments on the blog too):

You're off base in regards to the 1st gens.


"Let’s face it; an early Camaro is not among the highest-quality rides ever made." - Theres something to be said about these cars being on the road 42 years later...lets see where the societal throw-away 2010 Camaro is in 42 years.

"But if you’re being truly objective, they’re also cheap and tinny". - Hardly...a Kia is cheap and tinny. GM cars of the 60's were made with thicker steel skins...not the lean on and dent body panels of today.

"The seats are as thin as a stadium cushion and the trunk shuts with an unsatisfying clang". - Not in my experience.

"And those brakes—let’s just say, brace yourself", - My 68's discs work just fine. No ABS is the only drawback I can see.

A 5th or even 4th gen may be faster, handle better and stop quicker...but they will NEVER be a 1st gen. 67-69 1st gens will always be the best and most coveted Camaros.
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 07:52:53 PM »

Some of what he says MAY be true, but let's see them sell over 200,000 a year like the first gen Camaros
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Doug  '67 RS/SS 396 auto I know the car since new
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2009, 12:07:26 AM »

   I'd say that blogger had better reserve judgement until the service problems and recalls begin showing up on the 2010. Wait-----there already IS a recall! As far as i know, no 1st-Gen was ever recalled because it might set itself on fire. Is the 2010 a triumph of technical achievment? Absolutely. Is it superior to the 1st-Gens? We don't know yet.
   With all the computers and tires and techno-wizard stuff in cars these days, they could make an anvil run and handle like a '66 Lotus Indy car. Duh.
   My guess is this blogger is an arrogant, wet-behind-the-ears little snot who has never experienced what the 1st-Gens are all about. Will the 2011 win 10 out of 13 races like Penske did with the '68 Sunoco Camaro? I doubt it. Will there be a 2010 mid-year release Z/28 that turns the auto world upside down? I doubt it. Will rogue dealerships like Yenko, Bill Thomas and Fred Gibb stuff a mega-inch engine in some 2010s and create a Frankenstein machine? I doubt it. Will GM ever COPO such machines again? I doubt it.
   Yes--the 1st-Gens handle like plowing pigs compared to today. No--the 1st-Gens were not that sophisticated compared to today. Touche'. But in their day, they threw gasoline on the ponycar fire that Ford started with the Mustang, and the F-body Muscle Car wars were born. You could WORK on a 1st-Gen and create your own Frankenstein without having to earn a college degree in electronics. That is their charm, their allure and their grace. Z/28s could be ordered with headers in the trunk in a burlap bag...a dual-Holley crossram could be bought over-the-counter...396s could be ordered with exotic aluminum heads and solid-lifter cams. All in the window of about a year and a half, by the way.
   I've had a first-hand look at a 2010. If you want to talk about quality control, well, GM must be skimping on paint, because most of the underhood and trunk areas were barely covered and showing primer and there is no clearcoat on the thin paint there. The interior is mostly plastic trim that will warp in the hot sun.
   So, the 2010 shares quality control issues the 1st-Gens did. They are not perfect by any means.
   Like maroman said---when they sell over 200,000 2010s, they'll be legitimate. If, and until they do, they're just pretenders. Very nice cars--but a couple of years from now we'll know if they've been accepted with the frenzy the 1st-Gens were.
   

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HotRod'68  1968 SS350 coupe undergoing frame-off resto/rod. 386/350/4.11s
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2009, 08:20:35 AM »

Well said Hotrod68!
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2009, 11:02:31 AM »

Excellent post... though I know this guy is a fan of the old cars.  He's GM hard-core to the bone.

Do you have a link to the recall already in effect for the 2010, I'd like to have that.  Smiley

   I'd say that blogger had better reserve judgement until the service problems and recalls begin showing up on the 2010. Wait-----there already IS a recall! As far as i know, no 1st-Gen was ever recalled because it might set itself on fire. Is the 2010 a triumph of technical achievment? Absolutely. Is it superior to the 1st-Gens? We don't know yet.
   With all the computers and tires and techno-wizard stuff in cars these days, they could make an anvil run and handle like a '66 Lotus Indy car. Duh.
   My guess is this blogger is an arrogant, wet-behind-the-ears little snot who has never experienced what the 1st-Gens are all about. Will the 2011 win 10 out of 13 races like Penske did with the '68 Sunoco Camaro? I doubt it. Will there be a 2010 mid-year release Z/28 that turns the auto world upside down? I doubt it. Will rogue dealerships like Yenko, Bill Thomas and Fred Gibb stuff a mega-inch engine in some 2010s and create a Frankenstein machine? I doubt it. Will GM ever COPO such machines again? I doubt it.
   Yes--the 1st-Gens handle like plowing pigs compared to today. No--the 1st-Gens were not that sophisticated compared to today. Touche'. But in their day, they threw gasoline on the ponycar fire that Ford started with the Mustang, and the F-body Muscle Car wars were born. You could WORK on a 1st-Gen and create your own Frankenstein without having to earn a college degree in electronics. That is their charm, their allure and their grace. Z/28s could be ordered with headers in the trunk in a burlap bag...a dual-Holley crossram could be bought over-the-counter...396s could be ordered with exotic aluminum heads and solid-lifter cams. All in the window of about a year and a half, by the way.
   I've had a first-hand look at a 2010. If you want to talk about quality control, well, GM must be skimping on paint, because most of the underhood and trunk areas were barely covered and showing primer and there is no clearcoat on the thin paint there. The interior is mostly plastic trim that will warp in the hot sun.
   So, the 2010 shares quality control issues the 1st-Gens did. They are not perfect by any means.
   Like maroman said---when they sell over 200,000 2010s, they'll be legitimate. If, and until they do, they're just pretenders. Very nice cars--but a couple of years from now we'll know if they've been accepted with the frenzy the 1st-Gens were.
  


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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2009, 11:29:54 AM »

I can't post the link but I can e-mail anyone a copy of the service bulletin if they would like.



                                                                                                                  Cory
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 11:38:56 AM »

The service bulletin # is 09121A Apparantly the positive battery cable may rub the starter housing, causing a short to ground. Only on V-8 models. Customers are not to drive them until the recall is completed. It involves using special insulating tape on the cable.
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 11:42:54 AM »

It affects vin# sequence A9000406-A9106537 V-8 models
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2009, 01:27:59 PM »

Interesting...thanks!   So much for that higher quality and engineering.   Tongue
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 02:34:02 PM »

None of you seem to remember the giant motor mount recall on late 60's cars including our sacred first gen Camaros. - The car would take off at full speed WOT and the only way to stop it was to turn the ignitiion off or pop it out of gear and let the engine rev to the moon.  Shocked

Recalls are not a new thing here.

BTW - the 2010 Camaro also has had other problems. The computers needed to be reflashed and the front brake calipers on SS models have had lead weights added to the early units to reduce noise problems. GM has been fixing them before they even ship them out. No big deal guys. They just want them to be the best cars possible before they give them to the customers.

-Mark.

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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 03:06:49 PM »

GM made it's best car's from 1955 to 1974 after that you are just buying a car with chevrolet emblem's on it , I wish they would have either made a new camaro or not used the camaro name on the cadillac looking car they are using the camaro name on for 2010 , FORD made a new mustang that look's like SURPRISE ! A MUSTANG plymouth made a challenger that look's like SURPRISE ! A CHALLENGER ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and so chevrolet made a camaro that look's like A CADILLAC !

I don't have a problem with the car itself it is a nice modern looking car just like every other nissan diwhangzu or isuzu you see on the road today , I just wish they would not have used the camaro name on it , if they were not going to make the car look like a camaro they should not use the name , just like in mid 1970 ! WHAT WERE THOSE GUY'S SMOKING ?

the quality and feel of 60's era GM car's will never be matched , today's car's are just cheap plastic transportation , I have often wondered how good a 67 68 or 69 camaro would have been when new as the are WAY better vehicle's now than new car's and they are 40 year's old , another thing is that you can work on them , my 67 has given me 90K mile's over the last 10 year's with only oil and filter change's and 2 set's of point's plug's and wire's , as far as a dependable vehicle the 60's GM car's and truck's are all but bullit proof ,
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 03:07:12 PM »

I would still definetly own one of the SS models regardless of the recalls. Would NOT replace the greatness of the first gen though.
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2009, 07:10:28 PM »

 They're all good - Both have advantages and disadvantages - Wish I could afford a 2010 - I would be a happy camper, with both Cry
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2009, 06:52:43 PM »

I have rented a 1LT in Cyber Grey from Budget for a week, and so far I am impressed with the base V6. The cars handles great, good ride on rough or uneven roads, no rattles, good body fitment, quiet inside, and very comfortable seats. The brakes are AWESOME for a base model and I can only imagine how the ones on the SS will do.....maybe peel the asphalt when you stop!!! Swapping the wife's daily driver 325i is probably going to be a reality sometime soon. The Camaro is getting a few miles less on the average MPG than her car, but I think the looks she gets in the Camaro will compensate for it!!!..................RatPack....................

***JMO....thank goodness they didn't retro the car as much as the Challenger or Mustang as I wouldn't even be interested in it. As for it looking like a Caddy, well I disagree. The lines are all first gen, especially 67-68 models with the only exterior styling cues of a 69 bing the grill and those hideous 1/4 louver indentations. The fender lines, tops of the 1/4 panels, and the lower body lines are all 67/8, with the taillamps being taken directly from the 68 RS. Just a great adaptation of the good from the early cars into a more modern design. Same for the interior, mostly 68/69, but just updated. Saw a Challenger yesterday with a 70 RT in front of it coming up the interstate, couldn't tell the two apart from a distance, especially since the 70 had the painted bumpers.....
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« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2009, 04:30:28 PM »

So you can rent a 2010 Camaro from Budget, but my local dealer has only delivered 1 so far, has zero in inventory, and no idea when he will get another one.
Interesting marketing strategy GM!
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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2009, 05:28:55 PM »

The local dealers are ticked that the Budget at the Knoxville airport got 7 of them the other day in one shipment! They received 3 Cyber Grey, and 1 each in Red, Yellow, Black, Silver. You cannot reserve them over the phone as they are only counter rentals only. They are not cheap to rent either, about $90 a day if you rent for a week, and double that per day if rented for anything less. I wanted to make sure this car was worthy of the hype and I have no complaints. The wife drove it to work today and loved it! She said the blind spots at the A & B pillars take some getting use to, but she thinks she can manage in time!!! So I think I have her approval to pick up a V6 car for her daily driver................RatPack.......................
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2009, 09:43:45 AM »

Quote
Will rogue dealerships like Yenko, Bill Thomas and Fred Gibb stuff a mega-inch engine in some 2010s and create a Frankenstein machine?

Since it came up...
I saw a 2002 Berger ZL1 like Camaro this weekend. Produced by Berger Chevrolet in Grand Rapids, MI
I believe they made 18 in 02/03.
I like the 1st gen style but it was refreshing to see and hear a rediculous setup installed from the dealer. Nothing is left untouched but the doors. The quarters are widened etc,

I am sure we will see more items like this with the 2010 body. The new body is a good correction. Atleast is relates to the heritage of the 1st gen and doesn't completely forget about it like all other gens.

For those interested:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0609htp_chevy_camaros/index.html

-John
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« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2009, 05:03:40 PM »

He, He!!

If it's not a "wing-window", it's a wannabe Camaro!

pdq67
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« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2009, 10:02:22 PM »

still should have been built in the USA for me to own one.if we all dont start thinking that way some of us will have to beg president Hu Jintao for our dinner plate.
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« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2009, 10:53:40 PM »

  Hotrod68 and RS3SDL2MG you both must have read my mind - great posts in my humble opinion and I greatly appreciate the fact that I now don't have to go to the trouble since you both pretty much summed up my feelings!
 Thanks - Randy
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« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2009, 06:47:33 PM »

Well, I have both. In fact, I have gone from driving my fully restored 69 Z/28 to driving my 2010 SS/RS in the same day. There is no question that the 2010 rides nicer and quieter. I would challenge anyone to compare a 1960s model car with their equivalent today (if they still make them) and not find the same thing. I would certainly hope that things have improved in 40 years!

That said, I still love both cars. It's a dream come true to have both.
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John
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« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2009, 09:30:15 PM »

still should have been built in the USA for me to own one.if we all dont start thinking that way some of us will have to beg president Hu Jintao for our dinner plate.

I don’t understand your thinking. Many Canadians have always considered cars from Canada or the USA as being North American. With comments like yours I may have to change my thinking. Do you realize that Canada has always produced 15 to 20 % of all North American vehicles from the big 3? GM has been producing cars in Canada ever since they were formed. In fact Buick was producing Cars in Canada before GM even existed. Both the Canadian federal government and the Ontario Provincial government have put billions of dollars into bailing out both GM and Chrysler. Canadian Governments, or should I say the Canadian people, own about 12% of the new restructured GM. We definitely deserve some vehicle assembly plants in Canada.
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Paul
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« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2009, 10:51:59 PM »

balaclava the camaro is not a Canadian icon is it? thats my way of thinking .im not saying no cars should be produced up there im just saying the camaro shouldnt it should have stayed on US soil.if gm released a new version of a acadian canso and built the thing in the USA some of your fellow countrymen would be mad correct?even though the canso is not a good example because it didnt do that well for pontiac of canada as the nova did for chevy down here. i hope you can get the point after all we will have another common interest you have two languages french and english and we almost do with english and spanish. just a thought
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« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2009, 12:21:05 AM »

The Camaro is a Canadian icon. Actually why can’t we just say that it is a North American icon. That is why I have owned 5 different first generations, including my current 1967 RS convertible for more than 30 years, and it doesn’t bother me that it was assembled in the USA. The Camaro has not been assembled in the USA since the 1992 model year. The fourth generation Camaro was assembled in Sainte-Thérèse, Quebec Canada from 1993 to 2002. The 2010 Camaro is assembled in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada, about a half hour drive from where I live.
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Paul
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« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2009, 02:09:45 PM »

How can you say it is a canadian icon?  This is a 1st gen site Canada only produced the models nobody cares about, anyway.  I'm glad Canada has had some jobs building the unimportant camaros but the 1st gens were created and built in the good ol USA. If the 010 model is supposed to represent or celebrate the 1st gen then, I think GM's upper management has come up short again on the location of the manufacturing (which is also the same guys who drove it into bankruptcy). Please tell me if im wrong for wanting to support my country by purchasing products built here so that me and my fellow Americans will have a job.
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« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2009, 11:37:53 PM »

Why does an icon have to be manufactured in a particular country? Look at the Statue of Liberty. It is a huge American icon but it was designed and manufactured in France. I have always liked the fourth generation Camaro better than the second and third. If nobody cares about the fourth generation then why is it so popular on some forums. At http://www.camaroforums.com the fourth gen forums have more posts and threads than all other generations combined.
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Paul
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