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Author Topic: Which spark plugs are available for original 302's??  (Read 9554 times)
69Z28-RS
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« on: March 18, 2009, 12:22:41 PM »

The '69 Z28 used AC43 (non resistor) plugs originally, but I just tried to buy some at a NAPA store, and R43 was all they had.  And they didn't have solid core spark plug wires..  I'm trying to put my original 302 back 'as original' as I can get it...   so I need some help from people who recently went thru this on which spark plugs, wires, dist cap, etc...  to run..    which work well, and lose fewest points in original class judging...   Is running carbon core (resistor type) wire and resistor plugs an issue?   (I've ran solid core silicone wires for 40 yrs, so I'm not very current on what is best or available..   Smiley
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
1968RSZ28
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 12:51:12 PM »

The '69 Z28 used AC43 (non resistor) plugs originally, but I just tried to buy some at a NAPA store, and R43 was all they had.

Here's a set of AC43 spark plugs on Ebay now...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-68-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z-28-AC43-Spark-Plugs-NOS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQitemZ140211561422QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Paul
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 02:10:08 PM »

In looking at those plugs, which were advertised as '67-68 Z28 plugs.... and a few other ads..  it appears 1969 may have been the first year for Resister plugs.....   and if so, my memory (old).. has failed me again.    Can someone with factual information on original type plugs straighten me out? 
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
1968RSZ28
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 03:11:04 PM »

In looking at those plugs, which were advertised as '67-68 Z28 plugs.... and a few other ads..  it appears 1969 may have been the first year for Resister plugs.....   and if so, my memory (old).. has failed me again.    Can someone with factual information on original type plugs straighten me out? 

My '69 Chevrolet P&A list the following...

'67 - 68 Camaro 302cid . . . . . 5569857  (AC-43)
'69 Camaro 302cid . . . . . . . .  5569992  (AC-R43)


Paul
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 03:17:43 PM »

My '69 Chevrolet P&A list the following...

'67 - 68 Camaro 302cid . . . . . 5569857  (AC-43)
'69 Camaro 302cid . . . . . . . .  5569992  (AC-R43)


Here's a set of the AC-R43 spark plugs for sale...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AC-R43-Spark-Plugs-8-1967-70-Z-28-1969-70-Corvette-LT1_W0QQitemZ250388072547QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item250388072547&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Paul
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 12:09:17 AM »

Thank you Paul!
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 12:38:34 AM »

As far as what is available at the parts store, the R45S is recommended per JohnZ's tune-up specs, as well as others' experience.
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 08:35:00 AM »

AC 43 plugs are hard to find. Some aftermarket suppliers have R43 plugs available. The AC R45S plugs are available from NAPA and other parts suppliers.

Larry
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JohnZ
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2009, 01:25:14 PM »

43's are WAY too cold for normal street use - they'll foul regularly. 44's are a little better, but the 45 heat range is trouble-free. I run R45S plugs in all my vintage small-blocks, and have for years. My '69 Z/28 runs stock carbon-core wires, stock coil, and Accel #110128 28-32 oz. points, with zero issues. Stock points are 19-23 oz., and break up over 6000 rpm.
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2009, 09:16:34 PM »

Use Champion J12-YC.  Same as AC44's.  These are the best for street performance and driving.  Like John said, 43's are too cold for the street.

We use these in many customer's cars,

Jerry
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2009, 07:57:27 AM »

Rergarding the 302 engine, when using AC45's in the hot weather, there are knocking issues when accelerating hard.......even with timing set at 36 total degrees.  NG! 

They're fine if you don't throttle up.  J12-YC Champion is best all round perf.

Jerry
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69Z28-RS
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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 04:18:50 PM »

Champion J-12YC is what I always used when I was driving my car; I never liked AC plugs!   but...  in trying to put my car back in 'production trim', I assumed I would need to use the original plug type...   Are plugs judged or not?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 09:50:48 AM »

What's the difference between resistor and non resistor plugs?  IE Champion J12YC and RJ12YC?

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 06:42:56 PM »

Resistor spark plugs were a result of an FCC requirement to eliminate or reduce radio and TV interference from automobiles. They have no other function in your ignition system and, in fact, create another voltage drop on the high tension secondary side of the ignitioin system. You can run non resistor spark plugs without any issues what-so-ever as long as you are not trying to listen to the radio or watch TV at the same time! It's also important to understand that this requirement was enacted back when TV signals were "broadcast" and reception was via antennas.

The frequency of the ignition system is in the same spectrum as TV and radio signals. Years ago cars would drive by someone's home and the TV would have all kinds of static on it from the EMI of the car ignition driving by. The same was true of people listening to the radio nearby or even in a car adjacent to you. All of this brought forward the FCC ruling that required manufacturers to comply to a reduction in EMI. Cheapest way out was resistor spark plugs. If you want peak performance do not use resistor spark plugs. You will get the maximum voltage drop at the electrodes this way. If you plan to listen to the radio at all in your car I would, however, advise you to use resistor spark plugs.

The best thing you could ever do to increase the performance of your ignition is eliminate the points. there is nothing good about points. Thats why they were eliminated in the 70s. You can purchase an electronic module (transistor) that will fit where you points were and effectively do more to increase the output of your ignition than any other modification. No one will ever know because it will be hidden inside your distributor cap. You could rev the engine to 100,000 rpm and you wouldn't come close to out running a transistor.
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 10:08:42 PM »

I have to agree with Jrschev regarding switching to electronic ignition.  I installed the Pertonix Ignitor II Electronic Ignition conversion kit #91181, and the black Pertronix Flame-ThrowerII low resistance 0.6 ohm coil several years ago.  I noticed an immediate improvement in starting and drivability of the car.  Plus, the Pertonix unit is hidden.  With a little work, you can modify and retain the original ignition wiring so it looks stock.  See picture.

For a little added benefit, I modified a set of Delco 8mm spark plug wires for a 1988 GM/GMC 5.7L Truck.  These plug wires utilize the "spark plug" style terminals on the cap.  However, I modified the wires to push into the standard cap and replaced the boots to straight original style boots.  I had an 88 GMC years ago which is where got the idea.  The plug wires route in the same positions as the original plug wires and they look very stock.  I have not had good luck with the reproduction plug wires so I like the GM 8mm wire set for better reliability.

This is my "driving set-up".  When I attend a “points show” or Camaro Nat's, I swap back to my #270 coil and correct NOS cap and plug wires.  I keep the correct wires on the NOS cap so it's ready to go and an easy swap.





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JohnZ
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2009, 10:17:02 AM »

The best thing you could ever do to increase the performance of your ignition is eliminate the points. there is nothing good about points. Thats why they were eliminated in the 70s. You can purchase an electronic module (transistor) that will fit where you points were and effectively do more to increase the output of your ignition than any other modification. No one will ever know because it will be hidden inside your distributor cap. You could rev the engine to 100,000 rpm and you wouldn't come close to out running a transistor.

Replacing points with an electronic module (Pertronix, Breakerless SE, etc.) does nothing to increase the output of the secondary side of the ignition system; all it does is replace an electro-mechanical switch (the points) with an electronic switch. The coil (and its rise-time characteristics) determines secondary output, not the switch. If you keep the stock coil, all the electronic conversion does is eliminate the need to set dwell once a year.

That's why modern engines (like the Chevy LS series, etc.) have individual coils for each cylinder - each coil primary winding has eight times longer to saturate before discharging than a single coil does for the same application.
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2009, 07:48:57 PM »

Replacing points with an electronic module (Pertronix, Breakerless SE, etc.) does nothing to increase the output of the secondary side of the ignition system; all it does is replace an electro-mechanical switch (the points) with an electronic switch. The coil (and its rise-time characteristics) determines secondary output, not the switch. If you keep the stock coil, all the electronic conversion does is eliminate the need to set dwell once a year.

That's why modern engines (like the Chevy LS series, etc.) have individual coils for each cylinder - each coil primary winding has eight times longer to saturate before discharging than a single coil does for the same application.

Well John, with all due respect to you and others on this board, you are wrong about this one and how a step up transformer works. Let me explain: Step up transformers, aka ignition coils, have several factors that determine their output. The number one factor in this equation is in fact switching time. This one factor is fundamental to the understanding of Inductors. Coils are nothing more than two inductors that are electrically adjacent to one another. The other factors that are involved are the turns ratio, saturation time and of course the primary and secondary resistance of the coil windings.

A coil works on two principals: Self inductance and Mutual inductance. Self inductance is present anytime a wire (conductor) is coiled and a current is passed through it and then abruptly changed. That means that the current flowing through a coil of wire at a steady state will not create a spike in voltage on that same coil of wire. Any time a current is passed through a conductor a magnetic field will be induced. If the current remains steady so does the magnetic field. Interrupt this current flow and the magnetic field collapses around this coil of wire thus inducing a high voltage "spike" in this same coil of wire. The key here is a "Change in" or "Delta" current. If the current flow is increased or decreased that equals a change and therefore you will get a voltage increase relative to that change in current. The NUMBER ONE FACTOR in creating a higher voltage spike in a coiled wire is simply how fast you can create a change in this current. Points do not do well here. They do NOT interrupt coil primary current very fast. In fact if you observe this on an oscilloscope you will NOT see a square wave representing current but you will see a sloping (time vs current) of decreasing current. The enemy of self induction. When the points are closed the current is flowing at a steady state in the primary side of the coil. As they begin to open using a mechanical cam they do NOT open instantly. They open (relatively) slow and this allows current to keep flowing across this small gap until they are finally open far enough to stop the current flow. That is also why points become pitted. This is a result of material being transferred from one contact point to the other when current flows across the points.  The number one improvement that was made to ignition systems was to replace the points with a transistor. A transistor works at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second) So, instead of being forced to open/close by the limits of the distributor cam profile, or engine rpm, the transistor can stay closed far longer than points can and increase saturation time AND switch this coil primary current far faster and exceedingly more abruptly. Electronic ignition modules have an increasing dwell period with rpm. Points do not. On an oscilloscope the primary current with transistors looks like a square wave rather than a ski slope. Why do you think transistorized ignition was offered on cars in the 1960s? It was a HIGH PERFORMANCE option because in fact, it was better than a points ignition could ever be. The primary coil current was controlled by a transistor, not a set of points.

Mutual inductance is a property that allows the transfer of energy from one coil to another coil nearby. So if you take this primary coil and you put it around the secondary coil (the one your coil wire is attached to) and then collapse this magnetic field that surrounds the primary coil, all of this energy is absorbed by the secondary coil. Because the secondary coil has far more coils in it than the primary coil does, the voltage is increased relative to the number of coils that it is increased over the primary coil. It's that simple.

Turns ratio: This is another factor in determining coil output. Turns ratio is simply a mathematical number for the number of coils (turns) in the primary side vs the number of turns in the secondary side of the coil. A turns ratio of 100-1 means that if there were a 100 primary coils windings on the primary side then the secondary side has 10,000 coils windings. This is very important because it has a lot to do with the peak voltage that can be obtained on the secondary side.  Increase the turns ratio and you will increase the secondary output voltage but this comes at the expense of the current on the secondary side. If you increase the voltage in the secondary side you will decrease the current by a relative amount.

The output of any ignition system is determined in the engineering of the system and with points ignitions the engineers were hog tied. The power (watts) of the system is determined by the voltage and current on the primary side. The current is determined by the resistance of the circuit and the voltage on an automobile is a nominal 14 volts when running. That's also why the resistance of the coil is so important with points ignitions. You can not lower it too much or you will increase the coil primary current to a point where the points will fail or constantly just arc and not create any high voltage. Typically in a points ignition system primary current is 4 amps and about 14 volts. That equates to 56 watts (V x A = watts). At the spark plug when you are seeing 20,000 volts remember you still have a 56 watt system. You can't make energy for free. So if you have 20,000 volts with a 56 watt system you now have .0028 amps at the spark plug. Increase the spark plug gap and you will increase the voltage but you will decrease the current and decrease the duration of the spark. It's really an energy equation (joules). Spark plug gap is important. Ever notice how small it is with points ignitions? It's doubled or more with electronic ignitions. And yes, there is a reason for that. Leaner A/F ratios in the 1970s required it. Electronic ignitions have 10 amps of primary current and 14 volts. That's 140 watts of ignition power. 2.5 more than the points ignitions without doing anything more than replacing the points with a transistor. The points can not handle the 10 amps. They are only good for about a maximum of 4 amps. A transistor can easily handle 10 Amps. What this means is that the output voltage at the spark plug is 2.5 times higher. That's something to brag about.

Saturation time is nothing more than the amount of time the current is flowing through the primary side of the ignition coil. Now here is where most people just don't understand electricity and more to the point ignition coils. Even with points the coil saturation time is rarely a factor. Electricity (electrons) move very quickly and thinking that time (in human terms) inhibits this is crazy. As I said earlier, coils are inductors. Inductors are really just coils of wire usually with a metal bar through or around them to add permeability. When current flows through conductors (coiled wire) a magnetic field exists. A magnetic field is nothing more than air, or conductors, saturated with electrons. As the current begins flowing in a circuit, the magnetic field builds. As this field (electrons) increases so does it's resistance to allow any more current to flow. Why? Because similars repel. Electrons stored in the area around the coiled wire are the same polarity as the electrons trying to flow in to this same wire. They naturally repel one another and THAT is what ultimately determines the saturation time in any particular circuit. Saturation time is non linear and therefore the points only inhibit this property at very high rpm where coil "on time" is physically less than the minimum time for the inductor to saturate to at least 75%. Again, it's primary current switching time (quickness) that determines the output.  Inductors resist a change in current and Capacitors resist a change in voltage. That's why you have capacitors on your car for radio suppression and not inductors.

What does all this have to do with points? Points do just the opposite of what you need when you need it most. Let's examine an engine at idle. Obviously the demand is low so there is rarely a problem then. At idle the points have a relatively decent amount of TIME, NOT DWELL, to get the job done (let the coil become saturated with electrons). Dwell on points ignitions is FIXED and does NOT change with rpm. What is the difference between dwell and time? Time is, well, time. It is constant and marches on at a steady rate. You can get work done in a fixed period of time. Dwell means "time spent" or "duty cycle" relative to another dependent variable. Ignition dwell is expressed in the amount of degrees the crankshaft rotates.  So, if the dwell of your points is 30 degrees that means the time the points are closed "duty cycle" is for 30 degrees of crankshaft rotation. Not very long. How long does it take for the crankshaft to rotate 30 degrees? Well, at idle, 600 rpm, the crankshaft turns 3600 degrees every second. 30 degrees of crankshaft revolution takes exactly .0083 seconds. That's how long the points have to saturate the coil. That's not a lot of time to get the job done and we are stuck with this due to the cam profile of the distributor and the fact that the points have to physically open to a .019 gap then return to the closed position. As you increase rpm you increase demand on the ignition. What happens to the points with this increase in rpm and demand? Let's go to 3,600 rpm a six fold increase in rpm. The dwell has not changed, it can't, the points are mechanically connected to the engine. So at 600 rpm the points have .0083 seconds to saturate the coil now at 3,600 rpm the points still have 30 degrees of dwell but now 30 degrees of dwell only lasts .0013 seconds. So you see as the engine rpm increases along with the demand on the ignition the opposite happens. The TIME that the points have to stay closed is decreased but the dwell stays the same. You need more TIME to saturate the coil and the faster you rev the engine the less time the points have. Simple. Oh yeah, that's why there were dual point ignitions back in the day. They split the chores and basically doubled the time they had to work. Even they were limited by rpm however.

Electronic ignitions use a transistor, NPN type, to switch the coil primary current. This has several advantages number one of which is of course how FAST it can switch from full current flow to zero current flow. And that is what really made the biggest improvement in secondary output. Switching time. Electronic modules also have the benefit of being able to INCREASE the dwell with increasing rpm. They can do this because the module can "read' the rpm from the pole piece and realize the rpm increase thus increasing the "on time" or "dwell"  of the switching transistor. Unlike points ignitions, electronic ignitions will not sign off at a particular rpm due to lack of TIME. Transistors switch from on to off at the speed of light. Of course there are no moving parts so there is no maintenance and they last the life of the vehicle so long as an amateur does not get their hands on them.

Distributorless ignitions have been around since day one. The LS series cars are old hat. Coil over spark plugs systems were on motorcycles decades ago. Unfortunately, the Japanese understood this and were willing to use this technology to make better vehicles. They did and here we are today. The reason for coil per cylinder is not why you think it is. It is there so that the ECM can control primary current on a "per cylinder basis" Not because they want to increase saturation time. That problem was solved long ago with electronic ignitions. All modern OBDII cars use a variation of cylinder spark control for emissions, self diagnostics and fuel mileage. Most importantly the ECM can inhibit spark on a number of cylinders or cylinder on extreme decel conditions as well as fuel pulse to completely shut off a cylinder and eliminate that emissions from that cylinder. They also have these because the government mandates the manufacturers meet a federal emissions warranty that in many cases is 100,000 miles. The engine can not exceed emissions more than 1.5 the FTP. The only way to achieve this is eliminate possible failure areas in the secondary ignition system. The area most likely to cause a cylinder misfire. Misfire is bad news with OBDII systems and that's why you do not see coils with spark plug wires. You will also notice they use platinum tipped spark plugs too. All these things you see on a modern car are there for these reasons. It's more complicated than this but I've gone on way to long already.

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1969 Z11 Pace Car (05A) 350/300 L48 4-Speed
Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2009, 10:16:31 PM »

Seven or eight years ago, I backed to backed my point dist with Accel points against another MSD elec dist with blaster coil.  This was at Raceway Park in Englishtowm, NJ at a divisional points race in the Strickler Old Reliable Z28 Stock eliminator race car.  The results were no change in ET.  Car ran exactly the same in ET and MPH.  I also have to carry many extra parts now that I run the MSD dist all the time.  If something craps out, the car will not run.   

Jerry   
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2009, 05:49:15 AM »

MSD is a Capacitor Discharge Ignition. It works nothing at all like a conventional points or electronic ignition. MSD is a superior ignition system to points or electronic systems for high performance engines. It is used exclusively in Nascar Cup racing. They do not use any other type ignition as it provides the best spark available. It's multiple spark duration and available current at electrode is magnitudes stronger than any other type ignition.

I can't see any reason for it to improve ETs on a drag car. The engine is only working hard for a few seconds. It does however, provide excellent anti-foulding characteristics in stock cars where they have varying rpm, extended high load conditions and at times very low rpm where spark plugs have a tendency to foul due to rich idle conditions.

The good news about MSD is that it does not fail so you don't need to carry extra parts. The failure that does occur with them is due to incorrect installation and ancillary component selectioin. Done correctly they are bullet proof and extremely passive.
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1969 Z11 Pace Car (05A) 350/300 L48 4-Speed
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2009, 06:17:38 AM »

I also have to carry many extra parts now that I run the MSD dist all the time.  If something craps out, the car will not run.  

Jerry   

If something craps out in the points ignition the car won't run either. You would be nuts to go to a race track using a points ignition and not carry extra parts.

What do you think the "probability" of failure is for a points ignition rather than an electronic ignition? The answer should be obvious. Cars required tune ups every 12-24 thousand miles when they used points ignitions. Tune ups were nearly eliminated when the manufacturers went to electronic ignitions. Even though the secondary side still required eventual replacement they worked for thousands of miles before they failed.
 
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2009, 05:04:03 PM »

I've had to install my backup MSD unit more than once.  Other sportsman racers have had to do the same........and just about all carry a spare 6AL or 7AL.  They do fail. 

As a professional sportsman racer for the last 39 years, these systems do have issues from time to time.  The biggest advantage for an MSD is they keep the plugs clean while driving around the pits along with stop and start driving.  And in NHRA's Stock Eliminator, the only true stock class for factory built hot rods in all of motorsports, I buzz these little 302's to 8300 rpm and higher in some cases.  A good ignition system has to work well at these rpms.  10.80 ETs at 122 mph in a 3300lb Z28 speak for itself.   

We have had an equal share of issues with the Pertronix units too.  As a matter of fact, I will not install them anymore because of the failure rate in the field.  I've had at least 8-10 customers who had issues and the cars just stopped running during the hot summer months.  Have used high grade Accel points now since 1970.  Only one bad set that I had to replace in all the years that we've been restoring distributors.  That car didn't stop running, it just began running bad.

CHP has restored well over 100 distributors a year and have done so for many years.  While I have nothing against the latest and greatest ignition systems that today's technology has to offer, these old Z28s and hot rod Camaros still work well with a std ignition system and good quality parts.  My customer base will echo what I have written here too.  Many customers are at the local race tracks if not at a car show somehwere in Camaro Land.

Jerry

   
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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2009, 10:20:49 AM »

The good news about MSD is that it does not fail so you don't need to carry extra parts.

If that was true, the Nationwide and Sprint Cup cars wouldn't have to carry two parallel systems. Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2009, 01:36:21 PM »

I have a set of R44 NOS 4 green ring plugs if interested.
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Danny
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« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2009, 10:05:06 PM »

The good news about MSD is that it does not fail so you don't need to carry extra parts.

If that was true, the Nationwide and Sprint Cup cars wouldn't have to carry two parallel systems. Smiley


There is lots of redunancy and measures taken on Nascar cars to eliminate failure. The ignition is only one place you see it and it's easy and cheap to install a second unit. Ignitions are wired so the driver only has to flip a switch to eliminate diagnosis. It's not the kind of competition where you have time to diagnose something. These teams have spare everything. They will do anything to get that car back on the track and get laps in. If there were a way to bolt on a second carburetor they would try it. Anytime redundancy can be built in they do it. It's not because MSDs fail all the time. If they were that unreliable I guarantee you these guys would not be using them. I worked in that industry for a while and their tolerance level for unreliable products is ZERO.  They also do not use the same box that you see everywhere. They use a 6ALN which has different specs than the others.  The benefits of that particular ignition far outweigh the small risk of failure. 

I don't work for MSD or even own one. My 69 Camaro has the original style points ignition in it. I'm content with that too for my use and I sincerely love that car for what it is. It's incredible simplicity is the best part about it. I just don't believe for one moment that it's a better system, in any capacity, than what currently is available.   
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1969 Z11 Pace Car (05A) 350/300 L48 4-Speed
tom
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« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2009, 10:39:01 AM »

But they do fail. More than a few times a year, somebody has to switch to that backup system in order to finish the race.
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69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speedo
glenn64vette
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« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2009, 01:21:28 PM »


The good news about MSD is that it does not fail so you don't need to carry extra parts. The failure that does occur with them is due to incorrect installation and ancillary component selectioin. Done correctly they are bullet proof and extremely passive.

Unfortunately, having used MSD products from 1978, I have found them to have a very high failure rate. This is not only my findings, but dozens of other people that I've had to help who were stranded because of the 5 and 6xx boxes. I finally quit using MSD all together in the 90s. Sad but true.
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Dave69x33
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« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2009, 04:40:45 PM »

So far now for 3+ years, I have had no problems with the conversion to the Pertronik system.

But, based on this discussion topic, I am now half spooked! Undecided 

I going to find a clean used points distributor to keep on had as a spare.  I cut my resister wire and ran a “full time” 12 wire to the Pertronik system.  Swapping back to a points distributor can prematurely burn a standard points set over time, but I only need to lip home (or to the trailer) until I can get the problem corrected.

Has anyone else experience module failures with the newest Pertronik systems? 

I recall Jerry@CHP mentioning he has had  8 - 10 customer failures over the years.

Dave
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