Author Topic: Born on day?  (Read 4339 times)

Pex68

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Born on day?
« on: February 22, 2009, 08:24:34 PM »
So I know it's impossible to nail down the exact day on which our cars rolled off the assembly line, I've done the research, but would like to get some educated guesses.

Year: 1968
VIN: 320097
Plant/Body#: LOS 19362
Body Build: 12D
Body Scheduling: M093

I came up with 12/26/67 ???  What do you all think?  Did I miss a data point?

And if this is not the right place to post this, MODS please move!

Thanks!
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 09:58:27 PM »
Hmmmmm...  Well. . beginning with a Dec '67 Calendar, 1Dec is on a Friday, 31st is on Sunday; Christmas is the only 'necessary' Holiday, which is a Monday.   Leaving a total of 20 workdays, assuming no work on weekends or Christmas.

From CRG VIN/production listing:                         ---------LOS-------   -------NOR-------
                                                         Nov-67   315860   6208  352898  15178
                                                         Dec-67   321968   6108  368090  15192

Assuming constant production over 20 work days, each day found 305 built.   

By VIN:  The last LOS camaro in Nov was 315860, first one in Dec was 315861.  Last one in Dec was 321968 (total 6108 camaros build at LOS in Dec.67.).   Your VIN sequence was 320097, which is the 4207th produced in Dec of the 6108 cars total that month.   Yours would have been built on the 14th day of production that month, which was a Wednesday 20 Dec 1967.

The alternative means would use body numbers, and go back to the beginning of the production year, adding up the totals by the month at that plant, and seeing where your body number falls...  ie.   thru the end of November, LOS had produced 15860 camaros.   Your LOS body number was 19362, which was the 3502nd produced in December of the 6108.  ASsuming flat production during December over the 20 work days would result in your car being built on the 12th production day, or the 18th of December (a Monday).  Obviously there are variables affecting the production rate during a month which affect this, but it's a fairly good guess that your car was built sometime early that week (18-20th of December).

This calculation can be based on VIN numbers or body numbers, which can yield different results.  If I understand correctly how the plants operated, the BODY numbers should have been produced in order (but perhaps VIN numbers were not produced in sequence), so perhaps the body number approach is more accurate.  I'm interested what others have to say about how they calculate this for Camaro production, especially Kurt S or one of the other guys knowledgable about Camaro plant operations during those days.

Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Pex68

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 11:48:53 PM »
Thanks for your input, I did this a while ago and came up with all different dates too as expected but settled on 12/20 (going by body schedule letter M and starting on Dec 4 as first day (A) and counted down not including Saturdays) and then added 3 days because I thought I read somewhere here it took 3 days after the car was started to roll off the line complete.  Third day (not including Sat) would have been Christmas 25th so figured next day the 26th.  Also thought that made sense since it's a "D" build week and figured the 1st & 2nd were included in Novembers D week and week D of December was 24-30.  Glad to see you came up with the 18th in one calculation and guessed at 18-20 so I know I'm that far off!

So are the dates we are coming up with up the start of the car or finish?
Am I correct with adding the 3 days to complete?  Looking at it again now with the production totals maybe that seems way to long!?!?! 

I know there's no hard facts on what calendar weeks were what production weeks and like I said, no way to figure out an exact date but am interested too in what others have to say!

Thanks for taking the time 69Z! :)
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

69Z28-RS

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2009, 05:10:51 PM »
NP...  :)

I've always believed the 'production numbers/dates/etc' were related to COMPLETION of the car, ie ... when it rolls out of the factory to a storage lot ready to be shipped..  but maybe I'm wrong..  I have never heard of adding the 3 days you speak of; I suspect you got that from the 'time frame of production, ie how long a specific vehicle will be in the pipeline?'...  but I don't think you need to consider that for production date estimation.

Also,  Dec 1 was on a Friday, so that week (may be the first week of Dec production?..  but I'm not sure?)..   At any rate, it wasn't obvious to me why you began on 4 Dec?   

Maybe Kurt S or John Z or someone else knowledgeable of camaro production and GM policies on 'week of production' will chime in here... 
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Pex68

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 06:44:03 PM »
I've always believed the 'production numbers/dates/etc' were related to COMPLETION of the car, ie ... when it rolls out of the factory to a storage lot ready to be shipped..  but maybe I'm wrong..  I have never heard of adding the 3 days you speak of; I suspect you got that from the 'time frame of production, ie how long a specific vehicle will be in the pipeline?'...  but I don't think you need to consider that for production date estimation.
I always thought the numbers/dates were assigned when body began production (i.e. Conception) but didn't actually roll out of the factory until 3 days later (i.e. Birth)...HEY, maybe that's the 2-3 day difference between figuring by VIN & body number?  That makes sense right??  Body Number assigned when car is started to be produced and VIN TOTALS would have been cars that were COMPLETED.

Also,  Dec 1 was on a Friday, so that week (may be the first week of Dec production?..  but I'm not sure?)..   At any rate, it wasn't obvious to me why you began on 4 Dec?   
I thought production weeks followed full calendar weeks, i.e. 52 weeks of the year-Sunday to Saturday, regardless if one month ended and a new month started in the middle of the week.  Take week 48 in my example, (Nov 26-30 67 AND DEC 1-2) would be week 48 (or 11D) so calendar week 49 (12A) would start Dec 3 (Sunday-no production) and first day of production for month of December would be DEC 4 (or letter "A" in Body Schedule). 
     
Maybe Kurt S or John Z or someone else knowledgeable of Camaro production and GM policies on 'week of production' will chime in here... 
I hope so because maybe I'm way off...and think about my car WAY TO MUCH  ;)
Kurt/Mark/John/Ed...you out there???


Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

JohnZ

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 08:08:33 PM »
The build week code (12D) and the schedule number (M093) was when the body build started in the Body Shop. It took 3-4 shifts to get through the Fisher Body, Paint, and Trim shops before it got to the Chevy side (where it got its VIN), then took a couple of shifts to get through Chevy Trim, Chassis, and Final and off the line. The published Chevy VIN completion dates are when the car came off the Final Line, and are not necessarily accurate.
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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 09:55:00 PM »
John, in the case being discussed...   the first of Dec was on a Friday.   Is that week the last week of Nov (11E?), or is it termed (12A) if a car was begun on that day???
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe, '70 Mach I 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55-'56-'57 Nomads, '55-'57 B/A Sedan

Pex68

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 10:01:26 PM »
Wow, beat me to the punch, I was just gonna ask the same thing!  Was a new build week started the first of every month or did it go by Calendar weeks?

Also, John what would be your guess as start and finish date for my car? (or date range?)
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

JohnZ

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 05:11:29 PM »
Some data points indicate that the coded Fisher build week started on Sunday, but it's not consistent or clear; KurtS may have better info on this issue.
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Pex68

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 06:46:47 PM »
Thanks John!  Thought I remember reading that somewhere at one point.  One other question for anyone-was there a 11E build week in calendar year 67 (68 cars)?  At least that should be an easy one to answer!

 
Chris P
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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2009, 04:50:27 PM »
I've seen several 11E '68's from both Norwood and Van Nuys.

Pex68

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2009, 05:48:45 PM »
I've seen several 11E '68's from both Norwood and Van Nuys.

Oops, ment 12E!
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2009, 06:59:38 PM »
Quote
...the first of Dec was on a Friday.   Is that week the last week of Nov (11E?), or is it termed (12A) if a car was begun on that day???
It varied. Fisher did whatever they wanted with their calendar. Sometimes it could be a short week, sometimes they just tagged it onto the last week of the prior month.
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Pex68

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2009, 07:57:48 PM »
Thanks for the input Kurt!
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

Hot Rod Todd

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Re: Born on day?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2009, 11:10:36 PM »
There was indeed a 12E date in 1967. You might read this discussion for more detail:

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4864.0