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Author Topic: My Mystery '67 Camaro  (Read 10813 times)
Wazoo151
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« on: March 05, 2006, 07:36:34 PM »

Greetings, All

My wife and I just picked up our first Camaro project car, a '67. I have restored a couple of Datsun 240Z's in the past, and this is my first American project. I've wanted a muscle car since I was a teenager, and now I finally have her!

My '67 spent some time as a drag car, although it's relatively unmolested. Decoding the trim tag reveals that it was born as a medium emerald turquoise car with a matching deluxe turqouise interior, no AC, 3 speed on the floor, Z21 and Z23 packages. As I disassemble the car, though, I am finding a lot of gold paint, in places that I don't think a repaint would have touched, like underneath the rain gutter brightwork. I figure if, at one point, someone loved the car enough to repaint it extremely well, that it may not have wound up in its current state of project-ness.

Which do I believe - the trim tag or the paint? I guess the car could be a mismatch of parts (as it currently has a black AC dash with no tach) - perhaps it has a firewall from another car, including the trim tag?

Any light you guys can shed on my Mystery Camaro would be appreciated!

Robert
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Z71
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2006, 08:06:04 PM »

Going to need the VIN and all the info on the body plate to detemine if they match up.

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Mike
Owned new (and still have stashed away) LOL
1966 Impala SS396
1970 Chevelle SS454
1972 El Camino SS350
1973 Chevelle SS350
2002 Trans Am WS6 Ram Air
Wazoo151
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2006, 08:17:03 PM »

OK, VIN and plate information.

There is no VIN on the driver's side door jamb.  What I have is from underneath the cowl.  I don't know much about this "hidden" VIN, but it is msising the first few digits of the VIN - I am not sure if that's normal for this position or not.  It reads

7L160971

The cowl tag is as such:

06D               A28
67-12637       LOS-20606
779-Z            K-K
2B 3SK

Thanks!

Robert
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KurtS
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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2006, 11:55:29 PM »

Are you sure on the VIN?
If the VIN is right, then believe the gold cause the tag is not original to the car.... Sad

And missing the VIN tag is a big problem..... Did you get a title?
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Kurt S
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 12:30:29 AM »

Hey Kurt, thanks for the reply.  I am sure that the VIN is what I read off of the piece underneath the cowl panel.  I am assuming that it's missing the "12437" before the "7" that designates a '67 model and subsequently the "L" for Los Angeles.  How can you tell that (assimung the VIN is correct) based on the VIN, the tag isn't correct?

No, I did not get a title, only a bill of sale.  The title, according to the previous owner, has been long gone.  The car has been on a drag strip for a while, so I am assuming that, being a drag car, a title was't as important to them.  I had planned on contacting an auto title company to see what I needed to get a title.  I can see where, on the driver's door hinge area, the VIN tag had been.

Are there any more "hidden" VINs on the car?

Thanks,

Robert




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67ss350camaro
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2006, 12:41:09 PM »

Robert,
  Can you relook at the cowl tag?  Are you sure that the top line says "06D               A28"?
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Daniel
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2006, 01:39:21 PM »

I am pretty sure about it, but I will check again when I get home.

With regard to the VIN, assuming that the cowl VIN is correct, is there a way to get a reproduction VIN tag made for the OEM location?

Thanks for all the help!

Robert
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Z71
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2006, 04:04:23 PM »

Nope, that would not be legall..
 A missing VIN plate should be a red flag.......

Don't spend another dime on the car till you get the VIN and a title.  You are going to have kiss a lot of butt with your police and motor vehicle dept to get this fixed if its even possible.  Usually they won't even look at something that is not road worthy.

Not having a title can be a big problem and no VIN plate makes it worse.  A car you want to avoid IMO.  If you can get your money back I would do it.

For a bill of sale to be legal, it must have the cars VIN on it as well as the seller and buyers name/address etc, + be notorized.  Me thinks the bill of sale you have is worthless as nothing proves its for that car.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2006, 04:17:15 PM by Z71 » Logged

Mike
Owned new (and still have stashed away) LOL
1966 Impala SS396
1970 Chevelle SS454
1972 El Camino SS350
1973 Chevelle SS350
2002 Trans Am WS6 Ram Air
Wazoo151
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2006, 04:19:28 PM »

There has to be a way to do this.  I have a partial VIN beginning with the date code "7" and the trim tag.  What do automotive title places actually do for you, anyway?  Does anyone know what I would have to provide to be issued a new title?  I am in Texas, btw.

Robert
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KurtS
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2006, 04:47:54 PM »

Confirm the #'s and let us know.

You don't know if the VIN is for a L6 or V8.

Might be able to get a title thru one of those companies.
Then you might be able to get new tag (not easy to do).

Or just get a state assigned VIN.

Me, I would have passed on it.....
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Kurt S
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2006, 06:21:07 PM »

OK, I went back out in the garage, and I am sure that it says "06D             A28" in the top row. 

Apprently I can get a title after a waiting period from the state, but I have to know the VIN first.  That's 1/2 of a piece of good news. 

With the benefit of hindsight, I may have passed on it too.  I didn't, though.  However, it's quite clean and intact, and I figured it would be a great starting point for a restoration. 

Robert
« Last Edit: March 06, 2006, 06:36:25 PM by Wazoo151 » Logged
plumL78
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2006, 07:18:16 PM »

I say check both hidden vins to see if they match. Then contact the police to see if the car was stolen and not recovered. I know thats taking a chance but its better to know now than after you put many more thousands in the car. If its not stolen then getting a title will just take some time. The other vin is under the heater blower or in that general area
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2006, 10:33:34 PM »

I say check both hidden vins to see if they match. Then contact the police to see if the car was stolen and not recovered. I know thats taking a chance but its better to know now than after you put many more thousands in the car. If its not stolen then getting a title will just take some time. The other vin is under the heater blower or in that general area

Well, I am not one to give up very easily.  I really like this car, and it is very worthy of restoration.  Worst case, I can get a reissued VIN from the state, and register it that way. 

Where exactly is the heater blower?  Remember, I am a Camaro newb.  I looked where I would hide if I were a blower motor, but there's nothing up under there.  Probably unneccessary to an amateur drag car.  Can you be more specific?  Maybe take a picture of where yours is?  Do all 1st gen Camaros have a VIN here?

Thanks,

Robert
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Z71
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2006, 08:07:50 AM »

Here is where to look

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Mike
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2006, 09:49:37 AM »

Thanks, Z, for the picture - I don't see your Camaro listed in your sig, though. Smiley  I will look for this tonight when I get home, as long as I can get the fenders off this evening. 

Other than the VIN, what else can I look for to determine whether or not this was a 6 cylinder or 8?  It has had a v8 in it recently (per the previous owner and the owner before).  Fuel lines?  Holes in the firewall? 

I think this weekend I may try and drop the fuel tank out - maybe there's a build sheet on top of it.  After nearly 40 years, it's doubtful, but the tank needs to come out anyway.

Thanks for all the info,

Robert
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Z71
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 08:57:23 AM »

Don't have one.  I sold off all my old cars back in 2002 when I retired.  I am just worn out with old cars, let that to others to enjoy.  My last 5 yrs of work for the M-DOT(GPS Surveyor) had me travelling so much I had no time to play with cars and lost interest in owning them.

The last camaro I had was never even on the road in 5 yrs I had it.  I was made an offer I could not refuse so I sold it to a local body man.  The car has been sold 2x more times since and still not on the road.

Last cars I had were a 1970 El Camino SS396 (NOM), 1964 Impala 2 dr Sport Coupe and a 2002 Trans Am WS6 which I sold last year.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 09:00:40 AM by Z71 » Logged

Mike
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McKenzieDave
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2006, 06:47:44 PM »

Did I read correctly?  Cowl tag says 12637??  Dave
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67ss350camaro
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« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2006, 07:06:48 AM »

Did I read correctly? Cowl tag says 12637?? Dave

Yes, 12637 = Custom Interior Coupe.
You might want to read: http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#VINvsStyle
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Daniel
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97 V6 5-speed Coupe (work car ordered new)
2012 1LS (V6 6-speed) Coupe (new work car)
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2006, 03:24:06 PM »

Today I got the RH fender off - I had to cut off one very stubborn body bolt, but it's done.  After removing the heater motor, I did indeed find two numbers underneath.  The first one matches the partial VIN on the cowl - 7L160971.  There is another stamp underneath the hole, and this reads K22 R.  What, if anything, does this second number mean?

I am becoming more convinced that the cowl tag is not original to the car.  It's held in place by hexagonal flathead screws, not rivets, and once I got the fender off, there's even more gold paint where a repaint just wouldn't touch.

Am I correct in that a vertically-oriented rectangular cutout in the firewall means an AC car?  One of the local Camaro Club guys (great bunch) mentioned this - and the cowl tag is non-AC.  Furthermore, there's an AC dash in the car.

Well, the bright side is that this'll be a good story to tell once she's all done!

Robert
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2006, 05:00:09 PM »

This is now a little more bizarre.  After pulling the fenders today, I went back to work on wire-wheeling all of the fiberglass between the windshield bottom and the cowl (bad rust in here, someone glassed it in over a bad weld repair job).  I have the windshield out of the car, and the glass runs up onto the upper dash piece.  So I'm grinding away, when I hit bondo, but bondo in a perfect rectangle. 

Underneath is a 1968 VIN.  # 124378N430775.

Since the car has so many 67-speific pieces, the dash has to be out of another car.  But now I have three conflicting numbers on the car.  Partial 67 VIN, full 68 VIN, and the cowl tag.  I'm thinking of naming her Frankenstein.

Thoughts?

Robert
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JohnZ
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« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2006, 12:02:46 PM »

The K22R is a Fisher Body "run number" for that panel - says it was stamped at Kalamazoo during the 22nd week of production. A vertical rectangular opening in the firewall says it's an A/C panel. You can be pretty sure that the VIN derivative stamped adjacent to the heater opening is the original, as that panel is seldom replaced.
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2006, 05:20:22 PM »

So I take it there's no kind of Marti report you can run on the VIN of a Camaro to generate the options, engine type, etc. that came with the car in the rist place?

Of course, this puts me in the unenviable position of doing one of two things with regard to the VIN.  One, get a state-issued VIN.  Two, find some manner of reproduction plate.  With the trim tag, I either have to take it as listed, or do the same as the VIN - either buy one that suits what I want the car to be, or find a reproduction.  I have read a lot on these boards to beware of trim tags because they can be faked - has anyone run into a faked trim tag?

Robert
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JohnZ
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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2006, 11:23:01 AM »

Nope, no "Marti report" info is available for GM cars, other than the numbers on those we have in the CRG database. Yes, there are fake cowl tags out there by the hundreds - we see them every day on eBay and other on-line-advertised cars.

Let's boil this down - the car has no VIN plate on the door jamb at all (just rivet holes?). The 7L160971 is stamped adjacent to the heater opening. Where exactly is the 124378N430775 VIN located? Is there a VIN "window" in the upper instrument panel just behind the windshield opening? Is there anything in it?
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2006, 02:05:07 PM »

The facts as I know them:

The car has no VIN on the driver's door jamb.  There is a "clean" spot where the tag was, as well as two holes where the rivets were.  There are two 1967 partial VINs on the car - one on the inner cowl and the other behind the heater motor.  Both of them read 7L160971.  Apparently the upper dash panel in the car is from a 1968, because the 124378N430775 VIN is in the "traditional" place in a VIN "window" on the dashboard.  This is the only 68 piece on the car.  Everything else is 67 vintage.   

I have run publicdata.com queries on the following VINs:

124378N430775
124377L160971
126377L160971
123377L160971
125477L160971

None of them return any records within the area that publicdata.com covers.  At this point, the easiest way for me to get the car registered again (as a 67, natch) is to have a VIN tag made, although I am not sure where to start looking for someone that can stamp one.

R
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Z71
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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2006, 02:18:13 PM »

Its illegal to possess or sell VIN tags and rivets so it would appear your only course of action is thru your state DMV.  And the police will have to get invloved in this for sure.

I had just a simple typo on a title and it was a PITA.  Since I could not drive the vehicle to the cops (no plates because of title error), I had to get them to come to me and that took 2 days.   Then the cops ran wants and warrants on me and checked the car over for evidence of tampering.  Eevrything was as it should be so the officer filled out a form that I had to take to the DMV that certified they made a typo in issuing the title to the previouos owner.  Took several days to get this done.  I cannot imagine the problems you are going to face.



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Mike
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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2006, 03:07:40 PM »

Have you contacted MVA or a friendly police officer and ask about a VIN/title search.It can be done, thats how the police determine if a car is stolen during a traffic stop and driver has no documentation. There are only two possibilities the first five digits are 12337/12437 .This may bring you bad news if it turns up stolen.What parts of the original car are still intact,from these you might be able to discern 6 cylinder or v8.That all the first 5 digits denote. 
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Wazoo151
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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2006, 03:27:21 PM »

I have contacted the DMV, but not about the VIN - it was about the title.  They said that with two independent appraisals, I could get a bonded registration document, and after 8 weeks, I would get the title.  I am going to call the DMV and inquire as to the two potential VINS to see if it comes back stolen.  As far as original pieces - there's a 10-bolt posi rear in the car with 4.11 gears - the housing may be original.

Robert
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ChevyThunder
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« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2006, 06:59:39 AM »

Boy.. I would think at this point a call to the person you bought the car form would be in order to see what he  or she knows about all of this....and maybe some presure to buy the car back! There are a lot of cars out there and i am sure you can find one that you will like that does not have these problems...sometimes a can of worms only gets worse not better. Just my .02
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