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Author Topic: barrett jackson las vegas Z-28  (Read 64029 times)
Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #150 on: October 30, 2008, 11:34:55 PM »

Jerry has given his permission to post the FINAL report and pictures to clear up any confusion regarding the report. Since he's travelling tomorrow and has gone to bed, he asked that I post the report and pictures and include this statement:

My current procedure when inspecting any car is to send the client a quick rough draft because in two cases years ago, after I told two different clients that the drive trains were not real,  I was not paid the balance that I was owed for my services because they did not want the cars.  This is a tough spot and I never tell a client on-site when a drive train is fake until I am paid in full.

In the case of this particular car, I was there two weeks before the Camaro Nationals and he needed something right away to work on the car.  Once I down loaded the photos (which I do later), I updated the report and added the updated drive train information, along with the information that Kurt and the CRG gave me about the car. That was done in June 2008 but I donít have an exact date.

The attached report is the FINAL report noting the restoration drive train, along with the information regarding the fact that this car was originally owned by Gary Fitzgibbon, and showed up again on ebay 10/07 in Pennsylvania. As you can see from the "Special note", at that time the car was still a shell, but it was unclear if it was the original one or not.

I am also giving special permission to show pictures of the restoration engine stampings, along with the transmission and rear axle stampings.

In closing, the report posted by Kent Waters is the PRELIMINARY rough draft so he could work on the car and fix the various component issues noted before the Camaro Nationals. I would like to add that a copy of the final report was also mailed to Kent at the end of June, 2008 with the notations regarding the restoration drive train.

Thank you very much
Jerry MacNeish


This post includes the FINAL report (attached) while my next post will include the pictures.
Ed

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Ed Bertrand
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #151 on: October 30, 2008, 11:38:27 PM »

And here are the pictures.

Ed
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Ed Bertrand
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« Reply #152 on: October 30, 2008, 11:48:23 PM »

The stamps on the axle and transmission look *TOO* good...   Smiley   and the photo on the engine stamping is insufficient for analysis, but it's pretty evident that the VIN stamp was not performed in a gang holder...  it *might* be good enough for a 'judging', but I'd be very doubtful that the drivetrain was the original one if I were appraising this car.

PS.  was there any difference in the two versions of the Report other than the note which Jerry placed at the bottom of the latter one?
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
azhunter
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« Reply #153 on: October 30, 2008, 11:58:46 PM »

that is the only difference i could see?  i didnt see the note where Jerry said the drivetrain was not original...
i was expecting something completely different than what Waters put on his website.  i was ready for a grand conclusion to this whole mess....i'm not sure that this does it for me...and i suspect a lot of other people will feel the same way?  at this point its going to become an argument between JM and KW regarding what was in the report recieved and what wasnt in the report recieved.   
also, i know that im a "newbie", i've been around for a while reading and learning...just never saw anything interesting enough to throw a post on!!
mike
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KurtS
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« Reply #154 on: October 31, 2008, 01:07:20 AM »

There are two main differences that I see.
At the bottom of page one, it says "Restoration drive train."
The Special Note on page three.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #155 on: October 31, 2008, 02:20:02 AM »

It's easy to miss down at the bottom.   The whole comments section leads me to believe it's a real,  original,  authentic  Z-28 Camaro and then those last three words throws off the whole deal.

Comments:
This 1969 Camaro, vin #124379N509335 has been certified by Camaro Hi-Performance. According to our data base and
historical Chevrolet records, this car is an original Z28 302-290 horsepower V-8 with Muncie 4-speed transmission and
factory 12-bolt rear axle . This Camaro and trim tag are certified as real and authentic. The exterior and interior colors are
correct for this vehicle and match the trim identification tag on the firewall. Summary; car falls into the concours restored
category with some final assembly that still needs to be done. Only 20,302 1969 Z28s were produced making the Z28
Camaro one of the most desirable muscle cars in todayís market place. Rally green is one of the more desirable colors for the
1969 Z28. Page two of this report will address any component and fastener issues that need to be corrected at the time of my
inspection. Correcting these issues will enhance the value and authenticity of this vehicle. The cross-ram intake manifold and
4295 carburetors are real and authentic, not reproductions. Excellent original documentation file with this Z28 Camaro.
Restoration drive train.
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #156 on: October 31, 2008, 03:56:50 AM »

Wrong stamps on all three pieces.  Aspect ratio is incorrect r everythinbg.  1's were not used on Sept 68 engine stamings, I's were.  Numbers are all over the place. 

Jerry
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firstgenaddict
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« Reply #157 on: October 31, 2008, 07:49:34 AM »

Anyone who has been around here for more than a month could tell by looking at the VIN on the Block it was a restamp... 
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James
Collectin' Camaro's since "Only Rednecks drove them"
 
Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
Pacecarjeff
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« Reply #158 on: October 31, 2008, 08:37:18 AM »

Sorry, but the 2 report thing smells bad.
If KW needed something to finish his car for Carlisle - the list from page 2 would have been all he needed.

Anyone ever sell a car and write up two bill of sales?  Angry
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Zee28
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« Reply #159 on: October 31, 2008, 08:38:15 AM »

I just have one quick question...Why do "rough drafts" get a signature and "final reports" dated the same day do not?
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Jacquie
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« Reply #160 on: October 31, 2008, 09:46:32 AM »

I'm beginning to think I'm better off with an unrestored Z, even though it's no show car.

Jimmy V.
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Jimmy V.
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« Reply #161 on: October 31, 2008, 09:47:31 AM »

I just have one quick question...Why do "rough drafts" get a signature and "final reports" dated the same day do not?
Easy to see that the reports are generated on a word processor. Look at the address etc. deleted for privacy. The copy was probably printed to post here. I have no idea if the person requesting the report gets the only signed copy or not.
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Gary

Lemans Blue X33. DZ, M20, manual steering. Only BU code rear end is original.
Pacecarjeff
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« Reply #162 on: October 31, 2008, 09:57:05 AM »

However, after mulling it a bit more....

If KW thought that the first draft was his "official" report -
He wouldn't have scribbled all over it.
Obviously, he knew another report was coming.
But that is not the point - There should not be 2 reports.   Angry

And IMO those stamps are pretty close  - don't have to be an expert to be fooled by those.
The block was professionally broached and re-stamped - and that cost a lot of money.
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GaryL
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« Reply #163 on: October 31, 2008, 10:03:13 AM »

It's possible Waters was not happy about getting a second report. It was someting that had to be done in light of new info.
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Gary

Lemans Blue X33. DZ, M20, manual steering. Only BU code rear end is original.
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« Reply #164 on: October 31, 2008, 10:03:42 AM »

I'm beginning to think I'm better off with an unrestored Z, even though it's no show car.

Jimmy V.
I agree with you JimmyV....   If your car is 'decent', I'd suggest keeping it original; in  my mind it's worth more than a 'restored car'.   I will keep mine original and only cleanup/detail where it's most needed.

I've judged cars at national meets in several organizations (CCCI, NNC, CNA, and NCRS) and in my opinion, for a *Restored Car* it's next to impossible (in most cases) to determine if that is the way the car came from the factory.  For such a restored car, you really can only evaluate the correctness and quality of the restoration!  

Note:  Some people have used the term 'factory original' to describe the LV Green car.   That is totally incorrect.   'Factory Original' generally describes a vehicle that has NOT been restored, and is has very few 'changed' parts from the way the factory built it 'back when'...   In most cases, these cars show normal wear, but no restoration/modification/etc...   These 'factory original cars' are the ones we learn the most from because their owners over the years have not tampered with the car, only drove it.
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Gary W.  /  69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood all tint
69 Corvette convertible, silver/black 350 hp,
60 Corvette white/red, 72 Corvette coupe (2), 
90 ZR1 red/red #246, 90 ZR1 white/gray #2466
72 El Camino, '55 Nomad, '57 Nomad, '57 B/A Sedan
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