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Author Topic: O-1 convertible paint  (Read 13634 times)
Mark
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« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2008, 11:44:06 AM »

Here they are (the replica's) being given away in Dearborn, MI.

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Mark C.
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« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2008, 05:37:08 AM »

Any word on testing results of the original paint on the 03C O-1 car(s) yet?  What kind of paint is it?
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Mark C.
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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2008, 05:32:05 AM »

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Mark C.
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« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2008, 07:53:58 AM »

Mark,
What's not exactly true? Without burying this in a thousand words of statistical data, in your reply here, you speak of the 2 colors of white that Ford used on their 64 pace car program. So what's not true?
Ford's 64 Pace Car program contained cars painted both colors of white. These were the cars the Ford Motor company considered to be in their Pace Car program. It really doesn't matter what todays experts think happened, why it happened, or how it happened that Ford ended up with coupes and convertibles painted 2 different colors of white, yet all falling into the Ford pace car program. The fact is that is what happened. That's what Ford called their "Pace Car program. It does look like it was poorly planned, but it is what happened. Whether Ford built cars specially intended to be pace cars and festival cars, or had to call cars in from existing inventories to fill the ranks, these were the cars the Ford Motor Company chose to fill their needs at Indy.

Whats not exactly true then? My point was that Ford used 2 different colors of cars they considered to be in their pace car program for 64, and that's what happened. Are you trying to discredit all the 64 Festival Cars as to not having been involved in the race, or not to have been important cars because they were not produced with any special numerical production markings? Your Ford buddies from across the country that you mention probably wouldn't agree with that.

Here is a link to a page that has the information on the bottom of the "Color Information" sheet. Both colors you speak of are listed here.  http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1964-ford-pg03.jpg

Truth - The 64 Ford Pace Car program had Mustang coupes and convertibles painted 2 different colors of white. Slice it, dice it, or try to discredit it as you may, it is still the truth. 

Not exactly true according to mustang sources.  there was only 35 or so Pacecars at the track and they were obtained from production cars already at dealerships around the country.  Only the 2 actual pace cars and the winners cars were specially prepared for use at the track. 

In 1964, Ford had the Galaxie poised to pace the Indianapolis 500. That changed when Mustang madness swept the nation. But Ford had a serious problem: not enough Mustangs to meet consumer demand, much less the added demand of a racing event where more than three dozen convertibles were needed.  Indy 500 officials from the period have SAID that those responsible for the pace car program at Ford were scrambling to find suitably equipped Mustang convertibles prior to the race. To pacify Indy officials, Ford shipped 35 '64 Galaxie 500 convertibles in March, which were replaced by Mustang convertibles early in May.

The 35 Wimbledon White Mustang convertibles varied in the way they were optioned because many of them were sourced from Ford dealers within a sizable radius around Indianapolis. Each of these convertibles was D-code 289-4V-equipped. Interiors were red, white, or blue vinyl. Some had Cruise-O-Matics while others had four-speeds. Each had the Indy 500 graphics made for Ford by 3M.

Ford shipped these convertibles to Louisville, Kentucky, shortly after the race and sold them to dealers with the highest bids. Alderman Ford in Indianapolis successfully bid on a dozen or so of the pace car replicas. Needless to say, these cars sold quickly. What makes them hard to track is their status as run-of-the-mill production units. No special DSO codes or paint color.

While they don't yet know enough about the 35 festival convertibles, they do know something about the three actual Holman-Moody-prepared pace car convertibles built to pace the race. One paced the race. The other two were backup cars. The cars were all painted Wimbledon White. On race day only 2 of these cars actually made the parade lap, as the third ran into mechanical difficulties. Their vehicle identification numbers were 5F08F100240, 5F08F100241, and 5F08F100242, indicating all were 260-2V convertibles. All had significant chassis preparation. Each was fitted with a Holman-Moody-prepared 289ci V-8 engine.  Each of these Mustangs was fitted with grab bars and two-way radios. All three were produced as 260-2V convertibles and shipped to Holman-Moody. One of these cars survives today in Florida, owned by Bruce Weiss. The other two haven't been accounted for.

So, how do the approximately 190 Pace Car White Mustang hardtops fit into the pace car picture? For one thing, the pace car hardtop replicas really have little in common with the 38 Wimbledon White drop-tops at Indy. These pace car hardtops were Pace Car White (Color Code "C", 1964 only), had Trim Code 42 (white with blue appointments) interiors, and were equipped with the "F" code 260-2V V-8 with Cruise-O-Matic transmission.  Note that none of these were actually at the Indianapolis 500, they were just replicas built for general use, just like the vast majority of the Z11's.

The hardtops were produced for the Checkered and Green Flag contests, which were dealer incentives designed to both promote the new Mustang and indicate the Mustang's status as the official Indy 500 pace car for 1964. Each sales district arranged its dealers into groups based on sales volume in the preceding 12 months. A sales objective for April 1964 was established for each dealer in each group. Dealers who exceeded their sales objective by the greatest percentage in its group qualified to compete against all other group winners in the district.

Ford had already decided the total number of winners because the pace car replicas were assembled consecutively in mid-April 1964. The total number of winners, by district, was also predetermined since each of the pace car hardtops had a standard two-digit DSO code on the warranty plate. There were five standard-order DSO code pace car Mustangs per sales district for a total of 180 units. Each sales district determined the allocation of winners based on the best percentage of sales. The very best were declared Checker Flag winners. Second Place winners were Green Flag contest winners. Ford was aiming for an even split between the two contests. But it didn't turn out that way.

Since each sales district had considerable flexibility in conducting their contests and determining winners, the number of winners of each contest was inconsistent among the districts. There were many ties between dealers, particularly small-volume dealers. This created logistics issues across the land. Ford had already produced 180 hardtops for the two contests, but they needed more as a result of the ties. Approximately 10 more Pace Car White hardtops had to be produced in early May to meet the need. They say "approximately 10" because it has never been determined with documentation how many were produced. This is based on available documentation that addresses winning dealers.

Because these additional pace car hardtops were ordered internally by Ford, with no idea who the winning dealers would be at the time, they were ordered as DSO 84 (Home Office Reserve) units.

Checkered Flag winners (105 of them) were invited to Dearborn, Michigan, to pick up their free Mustang pace car hardtops in a nice ceremony with then-Ford Division General Manager Lee Iacocca. Dealers had the option of driving their winnings home or having them shipped. Green Flag winners had to stay home and pay for their prize with a $500 discount.
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Mark
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« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2008, 11:13:52 AM »

Din't say anything like that, all i said was the cars at the track were painted a stock color, they weren't painted to match the ford pickup trucks.

I'm quoting you from above:  "The two colors of white being used for 67 pace cars might seem very unlikely, until you examine the 1964 Ford Mustang Indy Pace Car program. Ford Mustangs that were used at the race as pace cars were painted a bright white that matched the Ford pickup trucks. The bright white was the exact same color as the trucks, though Ford re-named the color  "Indy Pace Car white" for the pace cars. Ford also built replica Mustang pace cars in a more cream colored white which was a standard production color known as "Wimbledon white". "

You've got your references backwards the REPLICAS were certainly painted a different color, maybe they match a ford pickup color, don't know, but the cars at the track were Wimbleton white. 

Additionally there are no convertible mustang replicas, they are all coupes, and there are no coupe mustangs in the group of cars sent to the track, they were all convertibles.  The replicas had nothing to do with the actual race events and none were there "officially" from Ford (doesn't mean some dealer local to Indy didn't take one or more over there).  What ford did was sort of like the 0-1/C-1 67 pace car dilema in reverse, where GM sent the standard ermine white color cars to the track and sold the 0-1 cars to the general public.  Ford didn't really have a mustang pace car program in 64, it was a stop gap measure at best.  The Galaxie was supposed to pace the race and at the last minute someone decided to substitute the Mustang as it was fast becoming their best seller.  The 190 pace car COUPES made by ford are no different that the 3600 or so 69 Z11s (or any of the thousands of cars built since then) that never got near the 500 during the month of may 1969, they were an advertising tool for their parent marquee.

All I'm trying to do is keep people from rewriting history, and quite frankly I don't give a hoot about the 64 Mustang pace car program, I'm just still trying to have someone tell me about enamel painted cars coming out of a factory setup to spray lacquer.  So far I'm not impressed with the info coming forth.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 11:34:40 AM by Mark » Logged

Mark C.
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« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2008, 01:19:11 PM »

The pace cars and festival cars at the track were Wimbledon white. Whatever name you attach to the cars, they were the pace cars and festival cars. Wimbledon white was also a Ford truck color, and extremely popular on trucks in 64. The coupes (replicas?) were another shade of white. This was also a truck color which was renamed Indy Pace Car white for the Indy Car "non" program. My only point here was there were 2 colors of white in 1964 used by Ford in there pace car "non" program. The "Indy Style" Mustangs came in 2 colors.

You have me confused somewhat by your statement from above, quote  "What ford did was sort of like the 0-1/C-1 67 pace car dilema in reverse, where GM sent the standard ermine white color cars to the track and sold the 0-1 cars to the general public." Actually, weren't all the cars in the 67 Festival program all 0-1 cars? And the C-1 cars were the cars sold to the general public?

I do agree with you that enough has been said about the 64 Mustang IPC's and this needs to get back on to the 0-1 topic. You ask about results from the lab tests. Nothing is back yet. As soon as they are, they will be released. Sorry your not impressed by the test results. The goal is not to impress anyone, but just leave no stone unturned in seeking the truth in what really happened.

Has anyone heard from the member who started this thread, Marv who was asking about his 0-1 pace car?


You've got your references backwards the REPLICAS were certainly painted a different color, maybe they match a ford pickup color, don't know, but the cars at the track were Wimbleton white.

Additionally there are no convertible mustang replicas, they are all coupes, and there are no coupe mustangs in the group of cars sent to the track, they were all convertibles.  The replicas had nothing to do with the actual race events and none were there "officially" from Ford (doesn't mean some dealer local to Indy didn't take one or more over there).  What ford did was sort of like the 0-1/C-1 67 pace car dilema in reverse, where GM sent the standard ermine white color cars to the track and sold the 0-1 cars to the general public.  Ford didn't really have a mustang pace car program in 64, it was a stop gap measure at best.  The Galaxie was supposed to pace the race and at the last minute someone decided to substitute the Mustang as it was fast becoming their best seller.  The 190 pace car COUPES made by ford are no different that the 3600 or so 69 Z11s (or any of the thousands of cars built since then) that never got near the 500 during the month of may 1969, they were an advertising tool for their parent marquee.

All I'm trying to do is keep people from rewriting history, and quite frankly I don't give a hoot about the 64 Mustang pace car program, I'm just still trying to have someone tell me about enamel painted cars coming out of a factory setup to spray lacquer.  So far I'm not impressed with the info coming forth.
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Mark
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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2008, 01:32:27 PM »

I just meant that in the case of the mustangs, Ford sent the standard color wimbleton white cars to the track, and then later came up with the brighter white (pacecar white) cars that were sold to the public.  GM did the reverse, the show paint cars (brighter white, polished ermine white, laquer/enamel? ones) went to the track and the regular ermine white C-1 paint cars went to the public.

Wimbleton white was a truck color as well.  It is a creamy white color.  The pacecar white was originally known as pure white on the 64 truck line.  Totally different appearance, from whimbleton white, as its a much brighter white, very close to Chevys Ermine white, probably more white than the 69 Dover white (which has a tiny bit of a cream tone to it) as well.

Whats the schedule to start testing, or get the results of the testing back?  How many cars (parts of different cars?) are in the test program?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 01:40:05 PM by Mark » Logged

Mark C.
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« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2008, 09:10:12 AM »

sorry i'm not on the computer much.
no evidence ofa sticker on the mirror.
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Marv
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« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2008, 08:36:26 PM »

Any new enamel paint discoverys yet?
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Mark C.
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« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2009, 11:39:26 PM »

Wonder how the testing going?
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Mark C.
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« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2009, 08:56:12 PM »

Been about a year since Musclecar Review printed the 53 03C cars were painted in enamel.  Testing was supposed to have been setup with PPG on some original panels, yet nothing new has come up.  Anyone know how the tseting is going, or went?
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Mark C.
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« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2009, 09:57:58 PM »

With the complete lack of any corroborating evidence for the enamel theory and lots of evidence that points towards the standard lacquer, I think this is a non-issue. The paint was lacquer.
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2010, 12:20:20 PM »

Going to bump this back to the top one more time.  Its coming up on almost 2 years now since the 03C cars original paint was supposed to be tested to determine if it was enamel or laquer, and there has been nothing mentioned on any site that it was completed and verified, or not.  Other than the thread on cpc.com that got me banned (and the Musclecar review article) there isn't even a mention of it anywhere else on cpc.com.  Whats the story, anyone know?
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Mark C.
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2010, 01:37:36 PM »

Whats the story, anyone know?

I would appear that either the "testing" didn't happen, or the results don't support the enamel theory and they'd just as soon not discuss it further. There were NO Camaros painted with enamel at the factory. Ever. Period.
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2010, 02:14:06 PM »

I know that (or at least beleive that), but i got tossed from their site for questioning that "the emperor had no clothes" so to speak as it relates to this theory, and I'm going to keep bringing this topic back up occasionally, until someone can confirm the use of enamel, or admit the cars were painted just like every other Ermine White Camaro on the line, albeit with a lot more polishing and buffing.
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Mark C.
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