Author Topic: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?  (Read 10061 times)

bcmiller

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2024, 04:36:01 PM »
Mine is an X44 COPO BE rear.

Just a pure speculative theory on this topic.  We have the change document that notes the move to bolt in style.  For late build cars (past normal production end date of July time frame), they may have received old style or a mix due to limited availability of new style bolt in.  I wonder what the design is of the 1970 Camaro snubber.....same bolt in, different bolt in, or push in?

Copied from above. The AIM shows the change dated August 1968.   

I saw in the ‘69 AIM, section 4, page 59 assembly manual, an engineering change dated 8-29-68

Not sure about Camaro but 1970 Nova has the bolt in style.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

bcmiller

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2024, 04:41:04 PM »
I guess I really don't see the need to figure out when things changed. It is either one style or the other and probably not something that is judged.

GM parts catalog shows the change November of 1968.  That is as far back as I looked. That was probably the next update after the change shown in the AIM for August 1968.

Why the change was not seen on production cars, I don't know. Maybe they just had that many already made up. The change did happen for 1970.

See this
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

Dave69x33

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2024, 05:33:02 PM »
All, thanks for your updates:  The list below was updated accordingly with you corrections.

Definition of X-Codes if pertinent to this topic:
W/Z21 Style Trim or Z22 Rally Sport:
   X11 = non SS396, non Z28, includes SS350
   X22 = SS396
   X33 = Z28 (w/Z21 Style Trim but not necessarily an RS)

W/O Z21 Style Trim or Z22 Rally Sport:
   X44 = non SS, non Z28 (Note: most COPOs were X11 or X44 bodies, some early COPOs were X22 or X66 bodies)
   X55 = SS350
   X66 = SS396
   X77 = Z28

Study Sample:
10B ('68), std. 327, NW, push in, from KevinW 
12B ('68), X33, VN, push in, HOT302
01B, X11, NW, push in, Iowa Jon
01B, X66, VN, push in, from x66 714
02D, X33, NW, push in, from RikerZ28
04C, model?, plant? push in, from L78 steve
04C, Z11, VN, push in, from 169INDY
04C, Z10, NW, Z10, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
06?, SS, VN, bolt in, from KevinW
05A, X33, NW, push in, Dave69x33
05A, X77, NW, push in, from Iowa Jon
05A, X77, NW, bolt in, from x77-69z28
05A, X77, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
05E, X77, NW, bolt in from copo
06A, X44, NW bolt in, from copo
08E, X66, NW, bush in, from x66 714
09C, X77, NW, push in, from Badshifter
09D, X44, NW, push in, from R68 GTO (COPO BE axle)

Dave69x33

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2024, 05:55:13 PM »
bcmiller,

I tend to agree with you.  While reviewing some of my old post, I ran across this topic and wanted to revisit it and see the feedback. The list so far is a very limited sample of 18 cars and "prematurely" indicates the bolt-in style appears to have started in June. However, there are numbers cars after June still using the push in style.  To make any kind of statistical inference from this study, we need a much larger 125+ samples of data.

I assume the November '68 change was perhaps lunched as a "use stock" of the old push-in style and to supply bolt-in service replacements?  Its not a safety critical component so we will not see a GM bulletin or recall.  It just one of those odd changes made to the '69 that is hard to pin down.

From this point forward, if I see a unrestored 1969 survivor, I till try to photo document it. I just hope is not when I have a suit on attending a wedding or funeral...LOL! 

I still welcome other's feedback new to this topic.

Dave

 

bcmiller

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2024, 06:53:32 PM »
I am not discouraging you from looking at this more. Go ahead.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

john jay 69Z

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2024, 01:48:33 AM »
Happy New Year to all

My 09C X33 also has the push in, has the 2 holes but no threads.

John

Dave69x33

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2024, 03:37:11 PM »
Thanks for your input john jay 69Z.

TO: x66 714, thanks for your correct info. I forgot that all Camaros built at Van Nuys, and very early Camaros built at Norwood, did not include X-Codes on their trim tags.

TO All,

In retrospect, using X-Codes as data may not have been the best approach to track when the bolt-in style rear axle snubber was launched in production. While the X-Codes do provide info about the powertrain, and assuming every '69 Camaro has (or should have) its original body trim plate, my initial strategy was to include the X-Code.  A more straight forward approach would have been to note if the Camaro was a 6 or 8 cylinder.  Since we started this with X-Codes, we can continue and clarify the engine in Van Nuys and early Norwood '69 Camaros.

The other option would have been to note the 5-digit codes after "ST" on the trim tag. This indicates the body style and if the car was a 6 or 8 cylinder. Per Alan Colvin's Chevrolet by the Numbers book, the ST codes for the 1969 Camaro break down as follows:

Example: ST 12337: "1" = Chevrolet Division, "2" for the 2000-series Camaro body, the 3rd digit = 6 or 8 cylinder engine, and "37" = sport coupe whereas "67" = convertible.

Thus:
12337 = Camaro 6-cylinder 2-door sport coupe
12367 = Camaro 6-cylinder 2-door convertible
12437 = Camaro 8-cylinder 2-door sport coupe
12467 = Camaro 8-cylinder 2-door convertible 

NOTE: So far, all the data in the list appears to all be 8-cylinder '69 Camaros.

Definition of X-Codes if pertinent to this topic:
W/Z21 Style Trim or Z22 Rally Sport:
   X11 = non SS396, non Z28, includes SS350
   X22 = SS396
   X33 = Z28 (w/Z21 Style Trim but not necessarily an RS)
   Z10 = Indy Pace Car accents - hardtop
   Z11 = Indy Pace Car accents - converitable

W/O Z21 Style Trim or Z22 Rally Sport:
   X44 = Base car, non SS, non Z28 (Note: most COPOs were X11 or X44 bodies, some early COPOs were X22 or X66 bodies)
   X55 = SS350
   X66 = SS396
   X77 = Z28


Study Sample:
10B ('68), std. 327, NW, push in, from KevinW
12B ('68), RS Z28, VN, push in, HOT302
01B, X11, NW, push in, Iowa Jon
01B, SS/RS 350, VN, push in, from x66 714
02D, X33, NW, push in, from RikerZ28
04C, model?, plant? push in, from L78 steve
04C, L48 Pace Car, VN, push in, from 169INDY
04C, Z10, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
06?, SS, VN, bolt in, from KevinW
05A, X33, NW, push in, Dave69x33
05A, X77, NW, push in, from Iowa Jon
05A, X77, NW, bolt in, from x77-69z28
05A, X77, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
05E, X77, NW, bolt in from copo
06A, X44, NW bolt in, from copo
08E, X66, NW, bush in, from x66 714
09C, X77, NW, push in, from Badshifter
09C. X33, NW, push in, from john jay 69Z
09D, X44, NW, push in, from R68 GTO (COPO BE axle)



bcmiller

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2024, 07:43:46 PM »
Not quite right. The data after the ST does not designate L6 or V8. That’s in the VIN.

See this.
http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#VIN

And this
http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#VINvsStyle
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

Dave69x33

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2024, 09:16:50 PM »
Thanks bcmiller. You are correct. My mistake. I miss read this. I looked for this info on CRG on trim tags and overlooked it. After reviewing Colvin’s book again, under the late 1969 trim tags, there is a footnote stating “the engine identification portion of the model identification number always indicates a V-8 engine.” He goes on to state that no 6-cylinder identification number is stamped on any trim tag, and the engine must be determined by checking the VIN number.




Jonesy

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2024, 11:13:03 PM »
I see on the list there is 06? VN. That cant be as the last week at Van Nuys was 05A.

I have 2 Van Nuys cars, both with original axle bumpers still in place. Build sheets for both

11B L48 push in
02A Z28 push in
1967 RS-Z/28 Nantucket Blue the D-2 car
1969 RS/SS 350 4 speed Azure Turquoise
1969 Z28 Azure Turquoise

KevinW

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2024, 01:53:18 PM »
Jonesy, my VN car on the list is stamped 05A, but based on the CRG VIN research, when VN restarted after the strike in mid june, my car was around the 100 built with leftover parts. I think VN finished up the 'parts' cars in mid July 69.

Which might be why it came with a bolt on snubber.  Random parts pulled from the bins just to get the cars out the door.

Dave69x33

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2024, 02:11:25 PM »
KevinW,

Interesting info on your 06? Camaro!  Is your trim tag stamped 05A and should I correct this in the list?

Dave

bcmiller

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2024, 02:42:47 PM »
Jonesy, my VN car on the list is stamped 05A, but based on the CRG VIN research, when VN restarted after the strike in mid june, my car was around the 100 built with leftover parts. I think VN finished up the 'parts' cars in mid July 69.

Which might be why it came with a bolt on snubber.  Random parts pulled from the bins just to get the cars out the door.

It may have gotten the bolt on snubber because things were getting prepped for 1970. The bolt on style was probably not fully implemented until the 1970 model year.
Bryon / 1968 Camaro SS 396 coupe - now old school 468 big block
1967 Camaro RS/SS 396 coupe L35/M40 - 4 generation family project
Looking for 68 Camaro with body # NOR 181016

Edgemontvillage

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2024, 05:40:17 PM »
Doug Perry's 1969 Norwood 2D build L78 9,500 mile survivor with it original bolt-in bumper



My 1969 Norwood 2B build RS/Z28 with its original push-in bumper


Dave69x33

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Re: 69 Center axle bumper - two styles?
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2024, 08:06:40 PM »
Interesting...thanks Edgemontvillage!  Two February '69 build Norwood Camaros each with a different center bumper!

I saw Doug's '69 L78 SS at the 2023 Bloomington Gold Camaro judging and again at the 2023 Camaro Nationals while being judged. It's a great time capsule!

BTW...I followed your "Brooklyn Project" restoration on the Hugger Orange, '69 RS Z28 on Camaros.net.  Outstanding work! 

I looked thru my photos and found a friend's unrestored, original owner, std. base 327, early 10D Norwood build with a push-in. I have a photo data base of 40 '69 Camaros but only only with a picture of the center axle bumper area. I took the photo to document the color of the bottom side the body.  Wished I could go back in time to get photos of this area on all 39 other Camaros...LoL!

List updated:

10B ('68), std. 327, NW, push in, from KevinW
10D ('68), std. 327, NW, push in, from Dave69x33, original owner, unrestored.
12B ('68), RS Z28, VN, push in, HOT302
01B, X11, NW, push in, Iowa Jon
01B, SS/RS 350, VN, push in, from x66 714
02B, X33, RS 28, push in, from Edgemontvllage, original unrestored
02D, X33, NW, push in, from RikerZ28
02D, X66 L78 SS396 (survivor), NW, bolt in, from Edgemontvillage, Doug Perry's car
04C, model?, plant? push in, from L78 steve
04C, L48 Pace Car, VN, push in, from 169INDY
04C, Z10, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
06?, SS, VN, bolt in, from KevinW
05A, X33, NW, push in, Dave69x33
05A, X77, NW, push in, from Iowa Jon
05A, X77, NW, bolt in, from x77-69z28
05A, X77, NW, push in, from Dusk Blue Z
05E, X77, NW, bolt in from copo
06A, X44, NW bolt in, from copo
08E, X66, NW, bush in, from x66 714
09C, X77, NW, push in, from Badshifter
09C. X33, NW, push in, from john jay 69Z
09D, X44, NW, push in, from R68 GTO (COPO BE axle)

 

anything