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Author Topic: 69 decklid emblem holes  (Read 36007 times)
KurtS
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« on: April 14, 2008, 11:12:04 PM »

This topic was on TC and needs further research.
Talking about decklids and were there always 2 sets of emblem holes for cars with spoilers. It's a long thread, but the summation is:

JohnZ posted:
There was only one raw deck lid (for a Camaro) from the stamping plant, with the standard Camaro emblem holes pre-pierced in the dies. Spoiler holes (and the extra set of holes for the relocated Camaro emblem) were all "drill at assembly" in the Body Shop using an applied fixture that clamped to the deck lid.

The rear shelf panel/deck lid hinge subassembly (which required a different torsion bar for spoiler cars) was loaded early in the body framing line, before the cowl tag was installed; they knew from the body run sheet which units required D80.


I responded:
That was true for 67-mid 69. But there are later 69 cars without the lower emblem holes.
I think that the Firebird caused a process change. I think they then used one F-body decklid and drilled the holes (F-bird, T/A, Camaro, and Camaro with spoiler) in the body shop.


JohnZ said:
Could well be - I left Norwood about a month before the Firebird production started, so I'm not familiar with any process changes the revised mix may have caused.

James posted:
My theory is that the D80 changed to a decklid with no lower emblem piercings, thus ensuring that the lids were unpierced because the T/A spolier would not cover them like the camaro spolier would.


Several 02D cars  with spoilers have 2 sets of emblem holes.
An 07A and an 08A (later 69) cars only have one set of holes, which seems to support a process change.

Looking for more data from mid-year 69 cars with spoilers to support the process change and pin down when it happened.

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Kurt S
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 08:31:19 AM »

My 04B LA Pace Car has just the one set of holes.
My 04C LA Z/28 has both sets. Go figure. It's possible the dealer installed the spoiler on the Z/28 as the original owner told me that he didn't buy it off the lot until August of 1969.
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 09:08:14 AM »

my 05A norwood z-28 has two sets of holes, an original spoiler car, it has dum-dum on the lower set of holes.
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 09:44:28 AM »

The Black RS/Z 04C original paint Vintage Certified car has 2 set of holes. VIN 633599
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 09:51:04 AM »

What we really need are some May cars with and with out D80 Trim tags with original decklids to really pin this down... anyone....
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 10:01:01 AM »

I have an 05A Z10.  How would I tell if the holes are there with out removing the spoiler?  Undecided
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 12:39:02 PM »

How do you tell the difference between drilled and punched holes?
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 12:53:45 PM »

wtexz10 You should be able to see the holes on the underside of the trunk lid.
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2008, 10:20:24 PM »

Just check my 05A and the holes are there.

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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 10:39:31 PM »

What we really need are some May cars with and with out D80 Trim tags with original decklids to really pin this down... anyone....

As well as Z10/Z11 cars vs. D80 tag cars in the same time frame.
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 03:05:50 AM »

I have a 9E and 10A of 1969 X77D80 cars with one set of holes
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2008, 05:26:10 AM »

My 04L Pacecar has both sets of emblem holes, and the TA style (4 large holes to mount the Trans Am Spoiler) inner trunk structure.

No Z11/Z10s were being made by the time the D80 code was added to the tag.
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2008, 08:03:32 PM »

No Z11/Z10s were being made by the time the D80 code was added to the tag.

Of course.  My brain was a month off.
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2008, 09:47:22 PM »

06A X66D80
One set of holes, orig spoiler and lid.

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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2008, 01:46:18 PM »

LA build 04A car, only the forward emblem holes are punched.
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2008, 10:41:51 PM »

Summary:
NOR - 2 sets of punched holes up to 05A.
1 set of punched holes - mid-06A and later.

LOS - need more data. Possible they ran one F-body decklid all year since the Firebird was always in that plant in 69.
Anyone have an early LOS car with original decklid and spoiler?
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Kurt S
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2008, 11:05:02 PM »

Kurt,
My brown scuncio car has two sets of holes. I think you have the data on it. 05E X11D80
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Chris
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2008, 10:35:28 AM »

Thanks Chris, that narrows the window down quite a bit.
Be nice to have a few more end of May and early June datapoints.
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Kurt S
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2008, 08:58:06 PM »

Z11 (04C) VN build
2 sets.

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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2008, 11:45:57 PM »

I have a 10 A 68 LA Z/28 that is a factory spoiler car and it has both sets of emblem holes,the stripes are the narrow 68 style and they go all the way to the edge of the decklid,witch is still original paint.
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2008, 12:13:21 PM »

I have a 10 A 68 LA Z/28 that is a factory spoiler car and it has both sets of emblem holes,the stripes are the narrow 68 style and they go all the way to the edge of the decklid,witch is still original paint.
This seems to be conflicting. The stripes should not go all the way to the lip of the declid on a spoiler trunk. Can you clarify that? Thanks!
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2008, 08:46:43 PM »

Kurt,I know that the accepted stripe layout stops under the spoiler but this cars stripes go to the edge of the decklid.The car got hit very hard in the mid 70's and has been off the road since.The car still has it's original Lemans blue on it.The stripes are the narrow 68 style with a notch in the right stripe for the C in the Camaro emblem.All of the spoiler mounting holes look like they were done at the factory and the tension rods are the correct size,and they have blue overspray on them.If you look at the bottom side of the decklid you can see that the paint on the lower set of emblem holes is not scratched from the emblem nuts so I feel that this rules out a stripe delete car that may have had the stripes added at a later date.
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« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2008, 03:03:18 PM »

My 69 LA built L78  has two sets of holes for the emblem .It still has the original deck lid and in was built 01d.  John
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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2008, 07:24:21 PM »

69 NOR, Z28, 05E (shipped June 4 69) trunk lid stamped dated T 20, two sets of emblem holes.
69 NOR, COPO, 06A, factory installed spoilers, (shipped June 24 69) trunk lid stamped date T 17, one set of emblem holes.
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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2008, 05:23:45 PM »

My 69 Z28 with a 08C date code on the cowl tag has one set of holes lower under where the spoiler sits. 99.9% pretty sure my car is all original sheetmetal.  Was wondering why the holes are there and read the thread. I love this site!!
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2008, 06:59:57 AM »

My 69 Z28 with a 08C date code on the cowl tag has one set of holes lower under where the spoiler sits. 99.9% pretty sure my car is all original sheetmetal.  Was wondering why the holes are there and read the thread. I love this site!!

Is your car an early 08C car or a late 08C car?
Does your car have a spoiler?
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James
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« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2008, 08:41:46 AM »

My 5A D80 Z/28 has both sets of holes. The lower holes were covered with a rubber backed tape that looks like something the Army would have used to patch life rafts in WWII. Here's a picture showing the first time the paint under the spoiler saw daylight in 38 years.
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« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2008, 09:22:12 PM »

Dusk Blue,
Does your car have the D80 on the TT next to the Xcode?
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James
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Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2008, 09:26:20 PM »

My car was a 08C build body order, and talked with the original owner today and he did not think the Z28 had the camaro emblem on rear trunk lid ever. The car was a D80/ spoiler car as  all late Z28 I believe came with the D80 on the cowl tag and Z28 package.  The only holes I see are the ones under the spoiler and those are always there stamped when the lids were made. My car does not have the other holes that were drilled after by the paint shop. All of this info I aquired from CRG.  If my info is wrong please let me know otherwise.    

Did all Z28 camaros have the camaro emblem on the rear deck lid?HuhHuh?  
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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2008, 04:48:18 AM »

To my knowledge, all Camaro  models had the script on the trunk. On spoiler equipped cars it was moved up from the normal placement.

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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2008, 06:40:45 AM »

To my knowledge, all Camaro  models had the script on the trunk. On spoiler equipped cars it was moved up from the normal placement.



Does someone have a template of sorts of where the emblem would go on a spolier car?   I have a spolier car which the trunk may have been replaced in the early 70's as the car may have been hit in the rear.  There is NO emblem on the truck lid at this time and if there should be, I would like to install it ... and in the correct location.
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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 09:55:02 AM »

On a factory spoiler car, the bottom straight edge of the emblem is 1-1/4" forward of the front edge of the spoiler, and the right edge of the "O" in Camaro is 4" from the edge of the lid.
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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 11:12:17 AM »

On a factory spoiler car, the bottom straight edge of the emblem is 1-1/4" forward of the front edge of the spoiler, and the right edge of the "O" in Camaro is 4" from the edge of the lid.

Thanks for the update John.
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« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 07:32:36 PM »

this is an original 12 B 1968 for my 69 .
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« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2008, 08:43:06 PM »

OK here is a question. My car is a 3rd week August 1969 build Z28. I have talked with all previous owners and the car has all original metal and never wrecked so trunk lid is original.  My car does not have a Camaro emblem moved up on the stripes.  My car is a D80 car and has the original heavy torsion bar to keep the trunk lid open with the extra weight of the spoiler. I have a 69 SS350 that I added the spoiler to when I rstored the car soI compared the 2.     My trunk lid on the Z28 has only one opening to get to the nuts  under where the emblem would go on a spoiler D80 car.  Could it be possible that my cars body was built and painted with the wrong trunk lid. Then when they realized they could not get to half the emblem nuts, they just left the emblem off alltogether???      I know the emblem holes were drilled on spoiler cars after the stripes were painted and my car should have the emblem.  Maybe they put a Pontiac deck lid on?? Any thoughts. 
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JohnZ
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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2008, 10:12:58 AM »

I know the emblem holes were drilled on spoiler cars after the stripes were painted and my car should have the emblem. 

Nope - the second set of emblem holes were fixture-drilled in the Body Shop, using the same combination drill fixture used for the spoiler attaching holes, before the body went to the Paint Shop.
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« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2008, 11:54:40 AM »

The fact that the Firebirds were being built at Norwood by that time, may have caused a change to how the lids were delivered.  Chevy probably had the lids delivered to the plant with no holes in them at all after June or so so that they could drill the appropriate holes for a FB or Camaro as needed.  Therefore a spoiler car would only have the relocated holes in the lid after this change took place (if it did - I'm just thinking out loud)    Scheduling stuff after April must have gotten real exciting with F/B and Camaro parts being installed and both Chevy and Pontiac paints in the body shop.
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« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2008, 05:52:41 PM »

Thanks Mark, I am sure mistakes could have happened. I was just curious and i am leaving the car as it left the plant.  I am not drilling holes and an emblem looks better withg out it anyway.
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« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2008, 08:56:26 PM »

My trunk lid on the Z28 has only one opening to get to the nuts  under where the emblem would go on a spoiler D80 car.  Could it be possible that my cars body was built and painted with the wrong trunk lid.
If your 08C car doesn't have the correct access holes for both emblem sets in the bottom side of the decklid, then it's not the original decklid. There was only one style of decklid in the plant and it had the access holes.
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« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2008, 08:24:48 PM »

It has only one access hole for the spoiler emblem relocate.  Is there a date I can see or what year my lid is for?? thanks
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« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2008, 09:49:47 PM »

Hey Kurt or John or anyone we know that my car was built around the 8th or 9th of August 1969 by the last six of the vin. Is there anyway to tell why my Z28 has a different lid? or how can I tell a date.  All previous owners do not remember there being a camaro script emblem on the deck lid.  Any ideas HuhHuhHuh?    Maybe they used older lids or whatever they could find when they extended production for the 1969 model in August
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« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2008, 05:42:37 PM »

While I cannot help with the data points in this thread, Oct 68 car with both sets of holes Smiley  I want to go back to the car with the dum-dum on the lower set.  I just got the camaro painted and wondered what you do with the lower holes?  The spoiler will not seal that well to keep water from exiting the lower holes. Just put a glop of dumdum on like chewing gum on each hole?  masking tape? something else?
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« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2008, 06:23:35 PM »

mine built 12B 1968 had what looked like black paper tape over the holes .
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« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2008, 12:12:04 PM »

mine built 12B 1968 had what looked like black paper tape over the holes .

Mark that might have been black masking tape, was it on the top or underneath?  thanks
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« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2008, 05:39:43 PM »

on top and wide enough to cover all holes from left to right in one piece . could it be the same type of tape used to tape frame bushings in place during assembly ?
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« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2008, 08:37:08 PM »

My Norwood 05A build date, '69 Z28, VIN N638712, has both sets of holes.
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« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2009, 01:29:32 AM »

on top and wide enough to cover all holes from left to right in one piece . could it be the same type of tape used to tape frame bushings in place during assembly ?
That tape was used by Fisher Body to seal the holes where the subframe bolts go through the floor pans when the body was water tested... so I am sure they used the same tape over the emblem holes on the spoiler cars.
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James
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« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2009, 07:31:03 AM »

I found some black masking tape online and used that.  Came out fine!
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« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2009, 09:54:00 AM »

I just bought a new trunklid for my car. since it is a ProTouring car I wanted a cooler looking rearwing and I ordered a TransAm wing.

I want to save my present trunklid so I also bought a new repro from OER.

Now to the interesting part for thsi subject.

My Z/28 trunklid, car is a 05C, has the holes in the bracing for the Trans Am Spoiler, the OER trunklid don't.

My Z/28 trunklid has the two sets of holes for the emblem.


Original lid with TransAm spoiler holes in bracing


Repro lid without TransAM holes.


Jan

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« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2009, 10:37:49 PM »

69 Pace Car 04C, 636285, has both sets of holes.
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« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2009, 09:47:02 PM »

 I have a 06A X33D80 very late June build N6647XX and it has one set of holes in front of the spoiler, hope this helps some.

Jerry K.
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« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2009, 07:13:05 AM »

I have an 03E car that has both sets of holes in the deck lid.

I spoke with the original owner who purchased the car from dealer and the spoiler package (D80) was installed at the factory, not the dealership.

-Dave B.
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« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2010, 12:56:38 PM »

I've been searching but no luck, what is the time frame for when the four holes started to appear on the underside of the deck lid for the Trans Am spoiler?  I thought it was around the May time frame but I think it must have been earlier.

Thanks,
Jerry
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« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2010, 01:36:09 PM »

I've been searching but no luck, what is the time frame for when the four holes started to appear on the underside of the deck lid for the Trans Am spoiler?  I thought it was around the May time frame but I think it must have been earlier.

Thanks,
Jerry

We have examples of that lid (the "second design" lid) from December, 1968.
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« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2010, 10:38:59 PM »

John thank you so much, that is useful information and I appreciate the input, I was only six months off in my thinking Smiley

Jerry
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« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2011, 10:34:19 PM »

Is this same information applicable to 1968 as well?
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« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2011, 06:15:24 AM »

Is this same information applicable to 1968 as well?


All 3 years have peculiar attributes, 68's are different then 69's. and there were 3 or 4  Deck lids for 67's as well.
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James
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Check out the Black 69 RS/Z28 45k mile Survivor and the Lemans Blue 69 Z 10D frame off...
https://picasaweb.google.com/112392262205377424364/1969_Z28_Restoration
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