Author Topic: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts  (Read 11198 times)

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3604
    • View Profile
New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« on: March 20, 2008, 06:35:57 AM »
Well, I've mentioned it before and it's finally done. Took a long time!

http://www.camaros.org/seatbelt.shtml

A thank you goes out to Martin Foltz who started this document 10 years ago (!) and to Kevin Wright who provided some of the details.

Let me know if you find any errors...

Thanks!
Kurt
Kurt S
CRG

fiveforty

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2008, 11:46:51 AM »
Good article. Answered alopt of things i wondered about.

KevinW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2008, 02:34:47 PM »
Good job Kurt!  Congrats!

tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1144
    • View Profile
    • Discount Internet Services
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 04:56:46 PM »
Kurt, Thanks again for raising the knowledge level of the rest of us. Do you have any photos of 69 rear shoulder belts? Are you aware of any repro units?

Tom
69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speed
o

69 Z11

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2008, 07:56:58 PM »
Nice work!  Organized a very confusing subject.
69 Z11
97 30th SS
Huggers at the Car Show

Jonesy

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
  • 1967 z/28 project
    • View Profile
    • Jonesy 67 z/28
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2008, 08:46:08 PM »
One thing is you forgot to mention Blue for the color of deluxe belts for 67. Its in the chart but not worded at the top of the chart:

1967
Standard seat belts were available in black, blue and gold. Deluxe seat belts were available in black, bright blue, gold, red and turquoise. (Missing blue)
1967 RS-Z/28 Nantucket Blue the D-2 car

http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z279/jones93_photos/

Pex68

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2008, 10:14:00 PM »
Excellent Report and perfect timing as I was just getting ready to put the originals back in my car!!!!  Great info & very helpfull on the decoding and lengths!
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

KevinW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2008, 02:57:39 AM »
Kurt, Thanks again for raising the knowledge level of the rest of us. Do you have any photos of 69 rear shoulder belts? Are you aware of any repro units?

Tom

:) 

tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1144
    • View Profile
    • Discount Internet Services
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2008, 04:09:22 AM »
Kevin, Thanks!
69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speed
o

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3604
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2008, 07:18:35 AM »
Thanks guys.

I didn't see where to use Kevin's pic, but I just added it. Thanks Kevin!
And fixed the 67 blue miss. Thanks Mike!
It will be a little bit til Rich gets a chance to publish the new version.

I still have never seen a car with original rear shoulder belts. Kevin built the belts for that pacer (nice!).
Kurt S
CRG

KevinW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2008, 11:42:06 AM »
Thanks guys.

I still have never seen a car with original rear shoulder belts. Kevin built the belts for that pacer (nice!).


That is true, but the Z-11 was coded for both fronts and rears :).  I built them based from factory drawings and posts of helpful TC members!  I have all the parts to build 2 more sets, 1 standard for my 327 car and one deluxe for my SS.  When I get the cars restored of course :D 

tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1144
    • View Profile
    • Discount Internet Services
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2008, 04:05:08 PM »
Kevin,

Would you be willing to share the info? I would love to put a set in my 69 coupe.

Tom
69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speed
o

KevinW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2008, 08:44:24 PM »
oops, coupes are different from converts.  I did not notice any drawings of the coupe rear belts in the Fisher chassis manual. I would think the coupe front shoulders are similar with the rears, but I would not know where to mount them. 

tom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1144
    • View Profile
    • Discount Internet Services
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2008, 08:48:06 PM »
Front shoulders I have. I would like to add the rear shoulders.

Tom
69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speed
o

mark x22

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2008, 10:12:37 PM »



It looks like they go here.

rich69rs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 899
  • LF7/M35/Z22/Z87
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 03:06:20 AM »
Kurt, very nice job - many thanks for finishing the report. 

However, I know that I am missing something, and it must be so obvious that it has taken me awhile to ask - so here goes....From the CRG Research Report - Seatbelts are the following excerpts:


"Seat Belt Configuration:

In 1968 and 1969, the Camaro reverted to the 5-passenger rating and the associated 3 sets of rear seat lap belts. This means that later 68 and all 69 coupes had at least 4 sets of belts for the front seats (including the front shoulder belts) and 3 sets for the rear seats for a total of 7 sets or 14 belts.

Front lap belts:

......68 & 69 cars used a larger plastic boot that covered the mounting hardware and the ends of both the shoulder and lap belts.

Front shoulder belts:

68 69 coupes
The mounting of the shoulder belts was improved in 1968 (which is good since they became standard equipment in January 1968!). The shoulder belt clip was attached to the headliner and the shoulder belt buckle was mounted to the floor on top of the lap belt buckle, both inside the flexible plastic boot."


If I read this correctly, there should be a belt buckle for the shoulder belt that was mounted to the floor on top of the lap belt buckle...in other words, two buckles, one for the lap belt and one for the shoulder belt; which would indicate that you could wear both the lap belt and the shoulder belt at the same time.

My 01C Norwood '69RS Coupe does not have two belt buckles mounted one on top of the other and secured to the floor for the front seat belts.  The car has deluxe belts and custome inteior with RPO D55 floor console. 

There is one seat belt buckle for the front seat belts mounted on each side and behind the console to the floor tunnel; one for the driver and one for the passenger.  This buckle can be connected to either the shoulder belt or to the lap belt.  There is no way in my car to wear both the front shoulder and lap belt at the same time. 

My car has 3 sets of rear seat lap belts (6 belts total), as the report indicates.  The front is where my car seems to be different; i.e. 2 shoulder belts, 2 lap belts, and one set of deluxe seat belt buckles (6 belts total).  Total number of belts in my car is 12, not 14.

What am I missing?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 03:32:04 AM by rich69rs »
Richard Thomas
1969 RS

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3604
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 04:07:40 AM »
What am I missing?
Two belts. ;)
Yes, there should be two buckle belts on each side of the tunnel. I've seen people remove one cause it just gets in the way if you don't wear the shoulder belts.
If you look at the warning label in the article, it says don't wear the shoulder belt without wearing the lap belt. Gotta have two buckles to do that. :)
Kurt S
CRG

rich69rs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 899
  • LF7/M35/Z22/Z87
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2008, 05:19:32 PM »
What am I missing?
Two belts. ;)
Yes, there should be two buckle belts on each side of the tunnel. I've seen people remove one cause it just gets in the way if you don't wear the shoulder belts.
If you look at the warning label in the article, it says don't wear the shoulder belt without wearing the lap belt. Gotta have two buckles to do that. :)

Which was a part of my concern.  Wearing the shoulder belt by itself is a recipe for disaster as you will simply slide out from under it in a collision without the lap belt.  Consequently, I have always only used the front lap belt and have never used the shoulder belt because of this fact.  I did not understand what was going on until now; somewhere prior to my acquiring the car in Nov 1991, someone removed the buckles for the shoulder belts.  Learning somthing from this site every day.

The lap belt buckles store very nicely in their mounts on the console.  Were the buckles for the shoulder belt usually just left to lie on the rear floorboard? 

Thanks

Richard
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 05:28:59 PM by rich69rs »
Richard Thomas
1969 RS

Pex68

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2008, 06:50:51 PM »
Were the buckles for the shoulder belt usually just left to lie on the rear floorboard? 

Usually tucked between the seat & console but they never stayed there, either ended up on the front or rear floor.  That's why everyone used to pull them out.  I've seen people screw those buckle retainers to the console & trans tunnel/floor but to me it always looked botched.
Sure am glad my 68 was built before January and didn't get the shoulder belts!!!!

Kurt, found some belts I've acquired through the years you might be interested in, I'll email you some more pics & info.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 06:55:52 PM by Pex68 »
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

GaryL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 538
  • Marilyn and me
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2008, 07:24:13 PM »
Good job Kurt.
Gary

Lemans Blue X33. DZ, M20, manual steering. Only BU code rear end is original.

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3604
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2008, 06:41:08 AM »
Thanks to all the feedback, I updated the seatbelt article, http://www.camaros.org/seatbelt.shtml.
Major revision was adding all the rear should belt info. Added some info and corrected a bunch of details too. Thanks for the photos, photo info/credits should appear if you put your mouse over the pictures (not true in Firefox though :().
Kurt S
CRG

Pex68

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2008, 06:56:58 AM »
Outstanding job Kurt!!!  Can't wait for the next revision ;D
Chris P
1968 Sequoia Green SS 396/325 M20

KevinW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2008, 01:03:45 PM »
Very nice Kurt! :)  Now we just have to work on the tbd's :D

KurtS

  • CRG Coordinator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3604
    • View Profile
Re: New CRG Research Report - Seatbelts
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2008, 03:01:34 AM »
Note, I split off the more technical / research oriented part of this discussion and moved it to the new Research forum.
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3758.0
Kurt S
CRG