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Author Topic: 1969 Starter Motor Numbers  (Read 7844 times)
Jerry@CHP
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« on: October 01, 2007, 10:30:49 AM »

I'm in the process of updating and writing the new 4th edition Camaro book.  I am running into a lot of conflicting information on the starter motors and what was used for some of the automatic and manual transmission combinations.  If anyone has info that can be confirmed, or an original car that can be checked, it would be deeply appreciated.

The 1969 Z28 uses the 1108367, which is used with a 153 tooth flywheel, the SS350 (L48 4-speed) uses the larger dia flywheel, 168 tooth count, 1108338 starter motor according to the Delco book and John Pirkle.  This Delco book also calls out the Powerglide trans using the same 168 tooth flywheel and this same 8338 starter motor too.  However, the GM parts book call out a 153 tooth flywheel for the Turbo 350 trans and Powerglide.  This has been a train wreck to figure out and I suspect that original cars would help this situation so I can have the data correctly written in my 4th edition book when it comes out later this fall. 

If anyone can help, will be glad to give you credit in the book for your help.  I don't have the time to spend hours on end trying to break the code on this.

Another note regarding manual trans cars, according to the Delco book, the base 307 and 327 used starter motor 1108361.  What is not clear is whether or not the LM1 and 350-250hp engines used this same starter or the 1108367.  Both appclacations use the same size flywheel.

Any help here appreciated,

Jerry@CHP

 
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Jonesy
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 01:37:05 PM »

Jerry

There was a dealer Service bulletin for Hard Hot Cranking dated Dec 1968. It has starter numbers listed for 350/300hp engines in it.
I will attach the buletin. I see it says Passenger cars, but I would think this applies to Camaros.

Mike

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1967 RS-Z/28 Nantucket Blue the D-2 car

http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z279/jones93_photos/
9T4Z
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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2007, 03:56:12 PM »

Jerry I found this post when I was trying to figure out the correct starter for my SS 350 TH350 car....did not get a clear answer.

Anyway I was looking at cross references from starter remanufacturers.  You are right to pull your hair out on this one.  The powerglide equipped camaro in 1969 x references to the same starter as the Z28 and manual tranny 350's.

When Mike first posted his bulletin I was surprised to see that the PG could have two different flywheels... explains why you get conflicting information... we just need to find some PG guys to chime in..

have a good time

Gary
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Gary 9T4Z

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tom
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 04:05:20 PM »

Jerry, Is there any easy way to check these in the car? I can't vouch for originality, but I could slide underneath, and inspect what I have in my 69 307 glide.

Tom
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 04:10:47 PM »

Thought I had some new info today.  New theory is all of the L48 350 engine cars got the same large 168 tooth flywheel.  This means that they use the 8338 starter for all three applications.  More data will be needed and I still need details on the other small block V8 applications.  I would like to put this to bed so all of the data in the new 4th edition book is correct and right on the money.  Will also aid others who are working on something besides a Z28 or 396-427.  We know all of the easy data.

Jerry
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 04:27:54 PM »

Tom,

Here is some data to remember.  If you have an in-line bolt pattern for the starter with a long bolt-short bolt nose, it's a small flywheel, 153 tooth.  If it's a cast iron nose with three bolt holes and a staggered pattern using to mounting bolts that are the same lenght, it's the larger 168 tooth flywheel.  Thanks for your help.

Anyone with an original 350 engine 1969 Camaro, now is the time to chime in.

Jerry
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Mark
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2007, 08:30:33 PM »

See this post:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=1248.0
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Mark C.
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 07:47:36 AM »

Jerry,

I scraped an original 307 Glide Camaro years ago. It had the small flexplate and date coded 1108367 starter. That might be one reason there are so many Z/28 starters on ebay now.

By the way the intake and thermostat housing look great Thanks.

Mike
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2007, 08:59:26 AM »

Still, alot of unanswered questions and nothing definitive to put in writing.  All of the data needed is based aournd the 307, 327, low horse 350s and the L48.  When the 8361 and 8367 were used.........they are both technically the same.

This might be a good CRG article that needs to written for the site.  Maybe I'll do this when I retire next year.

Now is the time to chime in, for anyone who might own an all original SS350 Pace car, PG or Turbo 350 car that they know is all original.   

Jerry
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1968RSZ28
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2007, 11:01:56 AM »

Maybe I'll do this when I retire next year.

Jerry -

If you retire, who will authenticate our first generation "F" bodies?     Sad     Huh

Paul
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Jerry@CHP
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2007, 03:16:06 PM »

I will still do that but I will make a lot of the crazyness go away that goes on in the shop everyday.  And be more selective about what work I do in-house in the future. 

Jerry
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69LM1
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2007, 10:04:21 PM »

Hi Jerry,

Here is some of the first info that I have gathered.

LM1's

1. Original Starter -Casey's car, the LM1 you certified here, TH350 car, Date 8L1, 1108361

2. N541594 Non Original Starter, flywheel has 168 teeth, TH350

3. N505852 Non Original Starter, flywheel has 168 teeth, TH350

4. N549197 MC1, looking for starter, not at John's so it must be here. Will look after I get back from the show.


Rich
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Rich Pern
2012 Mustang Boss 302
69 COPO Camaro "Tin Soldier"
70 Z28 COPO
69 Camaro 307. Orig car from High School
KurtS
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2007, 11:50:01 PM »

Here's some usages:
307 PG - 1108367   confirmed
LM1 TH350 - 1108361 confirmed
L48 TH350 - 1108420  confirmed

L48 manual - 1108338 - pretty sure, but not confirmed.
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Kurt S
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tom
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2007, 12:44:51 PM »

Jerry,

02D 307 glide, long and short bolts one of each, must be the 153 tooth.

Tom
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 12:47:19 PM by tom » Logged

69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
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McKenzieDave
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2007, 05:35:32 PM »

N500304, 8D, 327/PG--1108367.  Dave
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KurtS
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2007, 09:21:21 AM »

Dave,
That is one I expected. Smiley  What's the date on the starter?

Rich,
I'd like to note Casey's starter in the db. Do I have data on that car?

Thanks guys!

L48 TH350 - 1108420 is one that I've confirmed and is a little surprising in light of the TSB (posted above). The earliest car I have data on is a 12A, so maybe the earlier cars got the 1108361 and they changed to the 1108420 (though the TSB never states they made a production usage change).
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Kurt S
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McKenzieDave
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2007, 11:05:24 AM »

Kurt--Tried to post pic, it got mad.  July 24 68 I believe.  If not I will correct in later post.  When it denied my photo it said somehting along the lines "cannot find path" or something like that.  I've posted pics before, did I do something wrong?  Dave
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69LM1
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2007, 09:34:03 PM »

Dave,
That is one I expected. Smiley  What's the date on the starter?

Rich,
I'd like to note Casey's starter in the db. Do I have data on that car?

Thanks guys!

L48 TH350 - 1108420 is one that I've confirmed and is a little surprising in light of the TSB (posted above). The earliest car I have data on is a 12A, so maybe the earlier cars got the 1108361 and they changed to the 1108420 (though the TSB never states they made a production usage change).


I usually pass everything on to you guys, so I think so, but to be thorough I'll look his info up and resend, it was/is a white (originally frost green) RS TH350 LM1 car. He had it for sale about a year ago. He had to listed on camaros.net.

I just had him over to the house and we pulled the front cap off so he can start the resto on the subframe. Most everything was/is original. Any other numbers that you want while I am over there?

Rich
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Rich Pern
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69 Camaro 307. Orig car from High School
KurtS
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2007, 11:09:17 PM »

Rich, I sent you an email.
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Kurt S
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tom
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2007, 03:17:43 PM »

Jerry,

Do you have what you are looking for yet?

If you like I can pull my starter and check for numbers, but I doubt it is original.

Tom
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69 X11 Z21 L14 glide
looking for a 69 export model (KPH) speedo
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