Author Topic: Decode Help  (Read 9318 times)

rjprice

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Decode Help
« on: July 20, 2007, 03:06:19 AM »
I have a car I purchased about 12 years ago and I would like to get comments on the "numbers".  Does it look right?

Body tag:

ST69    12467 NOR304192 BDY

TR 720    50APNT

03E        Z11


Vin:  124679N626575

Engine:  T0409HB

The last digits of the VIN are stamped by the oil filter and under the cowl.

Mark

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2007, 11:02:43 AM »
Looks fine.
Mark C.
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2007, 11:51:58 PM »
Thanks.  I have heard alot of conflicting information over the years about prodution data.  I just found this forum and want to learn as much as possible about my car.  I bought it in Richmond VA in 1994 and the owner said it was numbers matching.  Before I plunk down a lot of cash to restore it, I want to know what I'm starting with.

Jonesy

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2007, 12:01:16 AM »
1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
67 = convertible body
9 = 1969 model year
N = Norwood, OH assembly plant
626575 = vehicle serial number sequence
 
Decode for body number: 304192
 
03E = Built the Fifth week of March.
69-12467 = Convertible.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
720 = Custom Orange Houndstooth Bucket Seats.
50-A = Lower Color is Dover White and the Convertible Top Color is White.
Z11 = Indy Pace Car accents - Convertible

In case you didnt know it's a Pace Car Convertible. :)

T = Tonawanda Engine
0409 = April 9th
HB = 350/300hp with Turbo 350 trans
1967 RS-Z/28 Nantucket Blue the D-2 car

http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z279/jones93_photos/

rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2007, 12:23:23 AM »
Thanks for the info.  Does it matter that the engine date is after the car build date?

9T4Z

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2007, 02:40:49 AM »
Thanks for the info.  Does it matter that the engine date is after the car build date?

Most of what I've read says that the engine should be dated prior to the car build date.... but...maybe someone else can chime in.
If you had the protect-o-plate the engine # would have been stamped on that..
Gary 9T4Z

94Z rag blower 491 rwhp (now 505!)
69 Pace Car, 70RS,91Z,91RS

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2007, 03:06:30 AM »
Thanks for the info.  Does it matter that the engine date is after the car build date?
Normally it does. But not in this case. The build date is inaccurate here.
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2007, 03:14:41 AM »
What does that mean?

rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2007, 12:39:15 AM »
Is the VIN wrong for the Build date (or vice versa)?  Before I bought the car, I talked to some people at the Northern Virginia Camaro club who had seen the car and they said it was a pace car.  Is it possible the VIN was stamped on the motor to make it look numbers matching?

The car has been repainted but all of the old overspray (pre-repaint) is dover white and you can see orange under the peeling "new" paint under the cowl grill.  You can also see the old stripes under the hood edge and trunk/spoiler.

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2007, 04:03:16 AM »
#'s are fine.
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2007, 11:54:16 AM »
Is this VIN in the database?

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2007, 03:56:51 PM »
No, it was not.
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2007, 01:28:47 AM »
Kurt,  Could expand on why the #'s are fine?

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2007, 04:10:14 AM »
We have data on 14,000+ cars. Comparing you car's data to other cars built at the same time, it looks fine.

I'd be curious what the axle code is. :)
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2007, 10:58:24 PM »
I'll see if I can find it.  The rear is pretty rusty.

rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2007, 01:57:12 AM »
It took considerable effort but the rear is:

BL 0402G2

I just cannot read the date because the casting is so rough.   I'm going to keep trying to clean it up so I can read it.  I saw CON1 on the other side.  Is the date code upside down, too?

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2007, 02:43:20 AM »
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2007, 03:08:34 AM »
I read that page in order to find the code on the axle tube.  I think the last two digits of the date code are 8 & 9.  I'm going to keep trying to clean it up to read it.  Does the axle code help?

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2007, 03:33:49 PM »
Sorry, I somehow missed your post of the code.
BL is 3.07 12 bolt posi. Built April 2nd. Looks perfect for the car. Note that it is built in April like the engine.

The last major date to check would be the trans code on the trans pan.
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2007, 02:03:24 AM »
This one was easy.  The trans code is:  Y9C03D.  I'm still trying to get the casting date for the center section of the rear.

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2007, 04:10:22 AM »
That one looks fine too. March 3rd, day shift.

I wouldn't worry too much on the axle casting date. I don't think I've ever checked either of my cars. ;)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 04:11:56 AM by KurtS »
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2007, 02:19:26 AM »
So Kurt, could one conclude that the car is number matching?

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2007, 06:51:31 AM »
Yes (with the caveat that the pad stamping should be confirmed to be an original).
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2007, 12:43:41 PM »
I'll try to post pictures of both the pad stamping and the trim tag.

rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2007, 08:34:24 PM »
Here are pictures of the trim tag and pad stamp.

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2007, 03:15:24 AM »
Both look fine! :)
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2015, 11:59:04 PM »
I know I am responding to an 8 year old post but i just received the shipping data report for my car from NCRS. I shows an official production date of 4/14/1969. Original delivery dealer was Key City Motors, Kankakee, Il.

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2015, 12:19:33 AM »
Congrats! Now, start posting. 21 posts in 8 years ?  I am sure you have plenty to share and you, yourself, I am confident are a very interesting person who has had your car awhile. Best to ya!
Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

69 Zee

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2015, 02:43:31 AM »
Welcome back 

I agree with Bentley   :)   You left many hanging for 8 years...lol  ;D   Me?  ???  not so much as I'm still new here with just a year under my belt.  But it sounds like you have a cool car and a good story.  Any pics ?  Did you ever start restoring ?  What's the current stage today?

Curious minds wanna know  ;D
Darrell

69 Z/28 X77 Dusk Blue, White Top, all original parts & born with matching #'s
69 Camaro X11 Fathom Green w/green interior

rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2015, 03:39:40 AM »
Thanks for the kind words.  I have not started a resto yet but I hope to soon.  I am in the process of researching what parts I need(alternator, master cylinder, etc).  I also hope to build a barn to do the resto in.

ko-lek-tor

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2015, 03:51:21 AM »
Thanks for the kind words.  I have not started a resto yet but I hope to soon.  I am in the process of researching what parts I need(alternator, master cylinder, etc).  I also hope to build a barn to do the resto in.
Most on here started the same way, so you are in good company. I too, have a 3E Nor. car with April components. Not a Pace Car. Sounds like you have a car worth taking care of and fixing up. Couple of friends, down here where I live, in Cincy area have unrestored pace cars and crowds flock to them passing up the shiny stuff...just something to consider. It is only original once. and thanks for coming back and being active, we need guys like you.
Putting you First...Keeps me First. Talent on loan from God. Helping the hobbyist and exposing the fraud
1969 SS/RS 396 coupe Hugger Orange X22 712 bought in 79
1969 SS 350 coupe LeMans Blue 713 bought in 79
1969 307 4spd. coupe Daytona Yellow 711 bought in 85

rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2015, 02:00:43 PM »
A question about block castings.  I have a 618 block and the CRG website says: The 3956618 block was also used in mid-69 production and was cast at Flint.  My engine has a Tonowanda engine prefix.  Were some 618s cast at Tonowanda?

69Z28-RS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2015, 07:31:54 PM »
If your engine is the 618 casting from Tonawanda, then apparently they did..  :)
Gary W / 09C 69Z28-RS, 72 B 720 cowl console rosewood tint
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KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2015, 05:00:19 PM »
I'm not sure they were cast there. Apparently there was some exchange of blocks between the locations to ensure machining compatibility.

Does your block have the oil plug above the waterpump? It should have a square plug. See Pic #3 - http://www.camaros.org/pdf/flint_engine.pdf
Quote from JohnZ:
Flint engines (Saginaw castings) have the hole and plug and Tonawanda engines (Tonawanda castings) don't due to different machining processes for an intersection in the front of the main oil gallery; Flint tapped the hole and installed the 1/8" NPT plug after gun-drilling to create the gallery intersection at the end of the hole. 
Kurt S
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rjprice

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2015, 01:53:24 AM »
I'm not sure they were cast there. Apparently there was some exchange of blocks between the locations to ensure machining compatibility.

Does your block have the oil plug above the waterpump? It should have a square plug. See Pic #3 - http://www.camaros.org/pdf/flint_engine.pdf
Quote from JohnZ:
Flint engines (Saginaw castings) have the hole and plug and Tonawanda engines (Tonawanda castings) don't due to different machining processes for an intersection in the front of the main oil gallery; Flint tapped the hole and installed the 1/8" NPT plug after gun-drilling to create the gallery intersection at the end of the hole. 

My engine does not have the plug.  I moved the alternator and did not see it.

69ssrag

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2015, 11:32:17 PM »
My 618 casting Tonawanda stamped(T0512HA) motor does not have the plug.

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2015, 12:55:53 AM »
That's what I expect (since Tonawanda machined it), but it doesn't confirm if it's a Tonawanda or Saginaw casting.

Bergy or JohnZ,
Any ideas on how to tell where it was cast? The date formats are the same in 67-9.
Kurt S
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crobjones2

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2015, 02:31:56 AM »
From my minimal experience - T cast lower right side of cam hole under timing cover represents Tonawanda  Possibly a T cast into the block under the fuel pump boss
Chris
69 SS 350

69ssrag

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2015, 02:53:20 PM »
I will check for a T this evening.

69ssrag

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2015, 04:28:10 PM »
I recall reading(maybe on this site?) that Tonawanda year cast date was 2 digits(69) and Saginaw was 1 digit(9).
I couldn't make out the cast date last time I checked but I will look at it again. 

dannystarr

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2015, 05:00:38 PM »
69ssrag, Has this stamp you posted been certified real? Just curious the way the broaching looks. Danny

69ssrag

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2015, 09:47:44 PM »
Yes, certified real original.

dannystarr

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2015, 11:19:45 PM »
Awesome, just thought the broaching looking a little too smooth. Still learning... D

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2015, 04:55:54 AM »
Tonawanda often used two digits for the year, but not in 67-69.
Kurt S
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69ssrag

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2015, 08:19:08 AM »
I couldn't find a T...so at this point, we don't know if it was cast at Saginaw and shipped to Tonawanda or cast and built at Tonawanda.

KurtS

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2015, 05:53:45 AM »
I should add that I recently added that comment about the 6618 block casting usage.
I'd researched the 388 usage and realized the 6618 could be the same thing. Relooking at the data, it's not as clear for the 6618 as I thought. Muddy enough that without some other backing data, I retract the statement.
Thanks for keeping me honest!
Kurt S
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69ssrag

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Re: Decode Help
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2015, 01:04:00 PM »
Thanks for clarifying, Kurt.